castaway$
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Ejido land purchase?
It seems I have read some real mixed opinions about buying Ejido land. I don't know if the question has been asked before (I'm sure it probably has),
but what are the dangers of buying Ejido land, should it be totally avoided or are there sensible steps to take which would reduce ones chances of
getting burned?
Live Indubiously!
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Osprey
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I'm no authority but I think my house was once on Ejido land. Once the Ejido perfects their claim to the land, agrees to apportionment, does all the
survey/legal stuff each ejidaterio then can apply for an Escritura, a deed. Once the deed is recorded at CORRETT or the appropriate land registry
office a potential buyer can request a statement of no lien and begin the purchase process. Once you use the deed for the Fidiecomiso it would be
unlikely (but not imposible) someone could come forward with a claim that the original Ejido documents were incorrect or corrupt or the survey was or
pick one. There are a whole lot of people living happily on land that was once owned by Ejidos.
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DianaT
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My understanding of the process is just what Osprey stated. And while even a fidiecomiso is not an absolute guarentee, I would not touch a piece of
land unless I could obtain a fidiecomiso----
I have seen some ejido land being sold in some strange ways which we have been told was legal, but not really safe----but if someone is willing to
take the risk, it can be a lot cheaper.
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Iflyfish
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Caveat emptor
There is a long history of gringo's buying Ejido land and then having it taken away. I know that Osprey and jdtrotter are reputable people but the
devil is in the details and you are not a Mexican citizen.
Iflyfish
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BajaGringo
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There is danger in ANY land purchase in Mexico if you don't pay attention and be sure to cover all your bases. Ejido land can be safely bought and
recorded with an escritura/fideicomiso as long as it has gone through the proper legal steps at the federal AND state level. I always tell folks when
buying Ejido property to stipulate the complete payment on the steps being completed to ensure a safe and legal transfer. A simple sales contract is
not a guarantee, no matter how honest or well meaning the seller is. Make sure that you complete ALL the steps until you have an escritura or
fideicomiso.
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longlegsinlapaz
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
I'm no authority but I think my house was once on Ejido land. Once the Ejido perfects their claim to the land, agrees to apportionment, does all the
survey/legal stuff each ejidaterio then can apply for an Escritura, a deed. Once the deed is recorded at CORRETT or the appropriate land registry
office a potential buyer can request a statement of no lien and begin the purchase process. Once you use the deed for the Fidiecomiso it would be
unlikely (but not imposible) someone could come forward with a claim that the original Ejido documents were incorrect or corrupt or the survey was or
pick one. There are a whole lot of people living happily on land that was once owned by Ejidos. |
I think
ALL land here was at one time Ejido. I also agree with Osprey, once the individual Ejido decides as a group that they want to start
selling off land, they have to apply for titles to individual pieces of property, those with no interest in selling can remain Ejido i.e., without
title. Up until there is agreement within the Ejido, it's the entire Ejido's decision, once they decide as a group to sell land, then they can apply
for individual titles.
While I don't disagree with BajaGringo's statement about dangers in buying ANY land, I do feel (Pollyana?) that there's a reduced risk in buying titled land which has gone through the stringent Ejido process, had
title issued AND gone through the fideicomiso process. I personally wouldn't be involved in purchase of Ejido land.
Unless the law has changed within the past 2-3 years, it's in the interest of of Mexican property owners to leave land in Ejido status because until
title is issued, no property taxes are levied....this from a Mexican friend who currently owns Ejido land in Chametla.
Like Osprey, I've heard of people (gringos) buying Ejido land, but I don't know the purchase process they followed. Once title is issued, it's no
longer Ejido land. It seems to me if the seller truly wanted to make a legal & legitimate sale, then they'd follow the established processes in
place to acquire title to make the land legal for resale via fideicomiso, but they rarely want to spend their own $$ for the process & begin
accruing property taxes for which they'd be liable.
From my viewpoint, there is simply too great a risk in purchasing untitled land.
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estebanis
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I just lease my land and keep wheels on my abodes!!! It's a redneck thang...
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Pescador
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Once an ejido decides to privatize a certain parcel of land they have to it privatized. First comes an avalu or appraisal which must be done, then a
survey to make sure of the exact property lines. When all of the members of the ejido have signed off on the land and it is then sent to the
department of Agraria. This permit can take a long time and usually comes from La Paz. Once the person has an escritura then that means it was
privatized and permitted, but you want to inspect the esxritura. Then you need to check with Profepa for permit to build which means you get a permit
from them which takes some time and needs pictures and permits to make sure you are not cutting down or destroying native species of plants, etc.
If you google buing ejido land you wil get a good education about the exact process.
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BigWooo
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Yes you can decrease your risk of getting burned but you will have to invest some additional time and money.
Ejido land does have to go through a long federal process before escrituras are issued. When the escritura is issued it must be to a Mexican Citizen,
most often member(s) of the Ejido. I don’t know anything about the federal process, but I’m familiar with buying after the escritura had been issued
to a Mexican National.
First you will need a copy of the seller’s escritura. Then hire a good attorney to write a purchase contract that clearly defines the terms of the
sale. Have the contract notarized and registered in the local catastro office in the public registry of properties. Then contact a title insurance
company and have them verify the land was properly “regularized”. They will determine if the current owner had good title and assure there are no
other claims against the land.
You will need to make sure a "Derecho de Tanto is issued". Your attorney should be able to help you with this. Before the sale can move forward,
there has to be a waiting period. Ejido members have first right of refusal to purchase the property during the first sale. When the waiting period
is over and no one in the Ejido offers to buy the property, a document called a “Derecho de Tanto” is issued and you can legally move forward with
your purchase. (The Derecho de Tanto should be referred to in, and a copy attached to the fideicomiso paperwork).
Now you can contact a Mexican notario and the fideicomiso process can start. The fideicomiso process is the same except for one step. Along with the
Avalou that’s required with a normal fideicomiso; when buying “regularized” Ejido land you must get an additional avalou called the “Avalou Bancario”.
This is a much more in-depth document that can only be completed by certain authorized appraisers. The notario who does your fideicomiso will be
able to help you. (note: don't get the regular avalou right away, they expire and the avalou bancario normally takes longer than the regular avalou is
valid for)
Other than the additional steps above, the fideicomiso process moves forward in the usual manner.
Now, once you have the fideicomiso, if you want to build or clear any of the land you must take additional steps. Ejido land is considered “rural”
and you must “re-zone” it to residential. To accomplish this you need to get a “Cambia uso de suelo”. Actually two, one is issued by SEMARNAT and
the other locally at Catastro.
Then there’s the issue of the environmental impact study which is too long to discuss here. Use the search and you’ll find a lot of info.
Note: If you are buying Ejido land that has changed hands several times since the original escritura holder, ignore the above. I’m not certain if
there are any additional steps in that scenario.
[Edited on 12-16-2008 by BigWooo]
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BajaGringo
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The easiest and simplest way I can explain it is the federal process removes the property from its 'ejido" designation status and that must take place
in Mexico City. The state process will get the property surveyed and assigned a Tax ID number for predial. When both of those steps are completed you
will be able to move forward and obtain an escritura (citizens) or fideicomiso (foreigners). That will take place in your state capital.
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gnukid
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BigWooo
...
The notary who does your fideicomiso will be able to help you. (note: don't get the regular avalou right away, they expire and the avalou bancario
normally takes longer than the regular avalou is valid for)
...
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Great input.
You mention notarized and notary. Who can notarize? Did you mean Notaria?
| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
The easiest and simplest way I can explain it is the federal process removes the property from its 'ejido" designation status and that must take place
in Mexico City. The state process will get the property surveyed and assigned a Tax ID number for predial. When both of those steps are completed you
will be able to move forward and obtain an escritura (citizens) or fideicomiso (foreigners). That will take place in your state capital.
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Did you imply the bank agent holds the escritura for your fidicomiso?
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BajaGringo
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Not the bank agent but the bank trust itself which is the fideicomiso. The trust is set up and managed by the bank.
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BigWooo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
You mention notarized and notary. Who can notarize? Did you mean Notaria?
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Yes, notarized by a Notario
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by estebanis
I just lease my land and keep wheels on my abodes!!! It's a redneck thang... |
IMHO, it is a really SMART thing you are doing. If something changes with the lease, you are not only willing to walk away, you will take your casa
with you. 
Lots of good advice here, IMHO---and it all seems to head toward the idea of can you get a fideicomiso on the property---probably the safest way to
have property in Mexico. It is the only way we would do it.
Yet we do know of some who are not Mexican citizens who are holding the original paper title to ejido property with an irrevokable power of attorney
over the land. Not something we would do, but some are willing to take that risk, and that is ok. As one person told us, they have not invested more
money than they are willing to lose, and that is very important, IMHO.
We also know some who own their property with the presta-nombre---again, they are willing to take that risk.
So, for us the key is the ability to obtain the fideiomiso, but others are willing to take a higher risk. We are also interested in capital
appreciation and think the fideiomiso is a better investment.
[Edited on 12-16-2008 by jdtrotter]
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gnukid
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I know that prices can vary but can you estimate the costs you spent to complete any or all the steps you outlined from beginning to end without the
costs of the land. Any rough numbers are helpful. I am looking at ejido land, going slowly and gathering info. Your comments are very helpful.
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Katiejay99
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It is not that those of us who "have chosen a Constancia" vs a Fiedocomiso Trust, are any different than anyone else. It just happens to be that the
piece of land we wanted is in the process of getting an escritura so we can put it into a F. Trust.
I would much rather have a Fiedocomiso Trust in my name, but since I must wait for the escritura (title) , the only other option available is the
Constancia.
Also, I forgot to highlight it, but one of the answers above stated something about building on your ppty after the escritura comes in and having to
change it from "rural" to "residential". That is not so in all cases. Los Cerritos at Pescadero is one that does fall into that category, but areas
surrounding and butting up against other areas within a municipality are automatically residential areas and building can begin immediately. That is
usually how new "barrios" are formed.
In the case of a new barrio, (still talking Ejido land here), once the land titles comes in, then the ppty is removed from the Ejido and is
automatically incorporated into the city municipality which it is a part of. Once that happens then water, electricity, sewerage and telephones are
installed. Building permits are impossible to get until the land has been incorporated into the city, but that doesn't mean it is illegal to build on
them. You may build on them immediately and live on your land as long as you have a Constancia (or sell your Constancia to another person). Once the
ppty has become a part of the local mcplty. you would need a local Engineer to sign off on your house in order to get it included in the Fiedocomiso.
Not a big deal.
Also, BigWooo is right on about the rest of the process. The wait period is simply waiting for the monthly Ejido meeting where Ejiditarios are given
the opportunity to purchase or pass on a piece of property. It is usually the last Sunday of the month. It is important to note that I have yet to
hear of anyone trying to stop a sale, mostly because they don't want anyone to do it to them when and if they decide to sell a piece of their land. It
is a gentlemanly agreement among the Ejiditarios - but that "derecho de Tanto" is CRITICAL and you don't want to lose it!! Ever.
[Edited on 12-16-2008 by Katiejay99]
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oladulce
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Katiejay99
...one of the answers above stated something about building on your ppty after the escritura comes in and having to change it from "rural" to
"residential". That is not so in all cases. ..
In the case of a new barrio, (still talking Ejido land here), once the land titles comes in, then the ppty is removed from the Ejido and is
automatically incorporated into the city municipality which it is a part of.
Building permits are impossible to get until the land has been incorporated into the city... |
I think the confusion came from trying to simplify these confusing terms and the steps involved.
All ejido land is given a Federal designation of "Forestal" ("undeveloped land in it's natural state" for lack of a better description). This
is more of an environmental zoning designation that's applied by SEMARNAT- the Fed. dept governing Mexico's natual resources. Before you can build or
alter in any way privatized (former) ejido land, you must apply at SEMARNAT for a "CAmbio Uso de Suelo" or a "Change of use of the Soil".
The Federal classification of the property will then change from "Forestal" to "Urbano". This is independent of any state and municipal "zoning".
In our case, we are outside the physical boundaries of the local town/municipality. When our property purchase and fidei were complete, the local
municipio (county) of Comundú changed the property from "rustico" to "urbano- without services" for the purposes of property taxes etc. A portion of
our local property taxes goes to the town of San juanico but we are outside the city limits and do not receive water, power or any other city
services and I don't expect to ever see those brought out to us in my lifetime.
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