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seeturtles
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Whale watching and sea turtle research
Join sea turtle scientist Dr. Wallace J Nichols on this unique excursion to Baja. The trip includes working with researchers to study the region's
green and loggerhead turtles, as well as several visits to see gray whales and their calves. Tour costs $1,995 double occupancy, visit www.seeturtles.org for more information.
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wilderone
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Wow - $2,000 for 5 days. Three whale watching trips at San Ignacio and look for turtles. Doesn't include getting to Loreto where the trip starts.
Dr. Nichols, not such a unique trip - it's only $60 for a whale watching trip. I think you've got too much overhead. Please try to direct your
efforts toward actual results regarding Baja CA turtle conservation - coordinate with others who are doing the same thing, and don't waste admin
costs. Good luck.
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shari
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Posts: 13033
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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yep...a bit pricey for sure....and make sure you dont accept any dinner invitations from the pangeros...the menu just may include turtle stew as the
lagoons have lots of turtles bobbing about there! Do some of the profits go to help turtle research/protection??
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wilderone
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"Do some of the profits go to help turtle research/protection?"
That's what their website seems to allude to, but I haven't seen their name among the Baja CA sea turtle conservation groups, or contributees. There
are active groups at Todos Santos, Loreto, Mag Bay, Bahia de Los Angeles, etc. which would welcome more money, people, resources to do the job - the
research has been done.
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Bajaboy
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Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
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I've often thought about doing the volunteer vacation offered throughout the world. But after looking into a few programs, most cost an arm and a
leg. It makes no sense to me why I would pay $2k plus to volunteer for a week. This sounds like something similar. For a better idea on some of the
offerings worldwide: http://www.volunteerabroad.com/search.cfm
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wilderone
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Dr. Nichols apparently is involved with no less than 26 organizations - on boards, advisory council, founder, etc. And actually, one of the
organizations is Grupo Tortuguero - but if you're going to dedicate your life to this type of endeavor, you need to put your money where your mouth is
- not just attend meetings and expect others to subsidize your travel. How effective can you be when your attention is so scattered.
And from their website, it seems this is an Earthwatch trip - costing not $1995, but $2500! Just think how many re-usable cloth grocery bags this
would buy to replace plastic bags that show up in the Gulf of California choking marine life. Or subsidized travel for Mexican children to attend a
turtle conservation camp.
I have gotten great satisfaction in service-related vacations. The Sierra Club offers many such opportunities at reasonable prices.
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seeturtles
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Baja Turtle Trip
Wilderone has some learning to do about sea turtles in the Baja Region. Dr. Nichols has led efforts there on the water, not just in meetings, for two
decades including founding the Grupo Tortuguero. I'd love to see what this ill-informed wilderone has accomplished in protecting the region's
wildlife.
These trips generate both donations and employment for members of the Grupo Tortuguero and are not a way to subsidize trips for researchers. The
Earthwatch trip is a completely separate one from the one advertised here and was listed at $1995.
This is a unique trip and is not just "looking for turtles" but active participation in research going on for more than a decade. These are the only
turtle monitoring trips offered in the region and are put together in collaboration with members of the local community.
-Brad Nahill
Director, SEE Turtles
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Bajahowodd
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Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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Ah! If it was not for capitalism. Really don't think that those prices are just to cover overhead. That would be what such a so-called noble
expedition should do. Alas, it seems like we are living in a world that, when it cares, still wishes to extract a profit, and claim it is doing good
work.
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tehag
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Seeturtles
.org
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seeturtles
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Bajahowodd is correct, those prices are not just to cover overhead. This is a commercial ecotour run by a for-profit tour operator. SEE Turtles
works with operators because that is the most efficient way to get people to a site and generate employment. Our project does not receive any funds
from these trips, the operators make their profit and donations and fees go to the local organizations. We are a small non-profit working to create a
new market for turtle tourism in the region and can't do it by ourselves.
Not sure what a "noble expedition" is, but this one is as focused on benefitting local communities and conservation efforts as one can find.
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Bajahowodd
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"Noble" is doing it for doing it, and not worrying about making a profit.
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fishbuck
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The only way to save turtles or anything else is if there is a way to make money off them. And they have to be worth more alive than in a bowl of
soup.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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seeturtles
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Turtle watching in Baja is not going to become a market that generates alternatives for fishermen and funding for conservation by organizing trips
that generate no profit. If the fact that this trip generates profit for a business in addition to donations and fees for conservation is offensive,
don't join! Our project is not making a profit but no operators will join the effort unless they can earn income from it.
The research is happening regardless of the tours, the purpose of the tours is to offer the experience to people who wouldn't normally have the
opportunity to join.
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fishbuck
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| Quote: | Originally posted by seeturtles
Turtle watching in Baja is not going to become a market that generates alternatives for fishermen and funding for conservation by organizing trips
that generate no profit. If the fact that this trip generates profit for a business in addition to donations and fees for conservation is offensive,
don't join! Our project is not making a profit but no operators will join the effort unless they can earn income from it.
The research is happening regardless of the tours, the purpose of the tours is to offer the experience to people who wouldn't normally have the
opportunity to join. |
Kinda like the whole Grey Whale thing.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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woody with a view
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following the above logic.... "noble" means a rich daddy, or living like a dog.
you gotta make something to survive on. i'm not taking sides here, i'm just putting myself in the "noble" group.
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Don Alley
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Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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turtle schmertle...
Turtles die from getting caught up in nets used in unsustainable fisheries. And nothing is done. Mexico plans to build 300 new net boats.
Turtles die from getting caught in longlines. Mexico is increasing longlining.
Turtles die so people can eat them. Often the same people who pretend to write and/or enforce laws to protect them.
Turtles die as a result of beach development. So more beaches are developed, including ALL the beaches in the area where I live.
But at least in all this nonsense we have perhaps reached a balance, where turtles will remain scarce, endangered, but just short of extinction, and
can therefore provide sustainable employment for turtle researchers and be a sustainable "glam" fundraising tool for "save the turtle" groups.
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wilderone
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Employment? Then why not collect donations (from trips or whatever), buy a plot of land, build a little shack/office, train a bunch of LOCAL MEXICANS
- send them to school (some of whale watching pangueros went to Mexico City to learn about whales), and have them operate their own turtle protection
business. They could have people coming and going, daily, for profit, to see what they're doing, see turtle habitat, see photo wall, etc. (Admission
$5); camp nearby ($10/nt); assist with a project ($$ negotiable); allow outside US "tour operators" to use their base for education and assisting with
projects ($$), bringing donatated provisions to help ongoing efforts, etc. And Don Alley is so right about all the other issues that impact the
turtle population - where is the effort and results to control what really hurts the turtles.
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Ken Bondy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wilderone
Employment? Then why not collect donations (from trips or whatever), buy a plot of land, build a little shack/office, train a bunch of LOCAL MEXICANS
- send them to school (some of whale watching pangueros went to Mexico City to learn about whales), and have them operate their own turtle protection
business. They could have people coming and going, daily, for profit, to see what they're doing, see turtle habitat, see photo wall, etc. (Admission
$5); camp nearby ($10/nt); assist with a project ($$ negotiable); allow outside US "tour operators" to use their base for education and assisting with
projects ($$), bringing donatated provisions to help ongoing efforts, etc. And Don Alley is so right about all the other issues that impact the
turtle population - where is the effort and results to control what really hurts the turtles. |
That's basically what Costa Rica did, very successfully, at Tortuguero on the northeast coast.
carpe diem!
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wilderone
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Oh - and you're way off base when you, seeturtles, start hurling invectives my way, vis a vis what I do to protect the region's wildlife as a defense
to the high cost of your trips - which is what the post and my comment was all about. But, as a matter of fact, I have paid only $250 for 7 days for
the privilege of planting thousands of plants in an alpine lake region in the Olympic Peninsula; I paid only $200 for 7 days for the privilege of
digging up invasive plant species in the Green River area; I paid only $250 for the opportunity to maintain hiking trails in the Gila Wilderness; I
paid only $600 for 7 days to help build a school for the indigenous in Chiapas; etc., etc. (point being that you don't have to charge or spend large
amounts of dollars to participate in environmental projects); I donate regularly to several environmental organizations, and write letters and do what
I can - while working at my job full time and caring for my children and grandchildren. I do my part and will go toe-to-toe with you on the results
of my personal efforts. Consider this a reply to the U2U you sent me.
("Dedicating their lives toward protecting the wildlife"? Well, seems you all have failed miserably since the wildlife has vanished.)
PS: So how much out-of-pocket does Dr. Nichols spend on each trip?
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gnukid
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For anyone interested in seeing the turtles hatch or helping out all night to protect them from poachers and observe and collect the eggs-practically
every sanctuary is open to your visit 24 hours a day and you are welcome. No appointment needed. If you need directions ask around or ask here too.
You can simply drive up and down the coast and visit the camps or camp on site or stay in a hotel. You do not need a tour guide as they are not
actually the vigilantes. Truly the vigilantes need as much help and contributions as possible directly and not to an outsider.
If you do have contributions you can ask for the direct contact here or on site, they need money for gas for the quads, they need jackets and
uniforms, they need food and money for computing devices and documentation. All the basics. Its not easy work since they stay up more than half the
night to look for turtles and poachers and then work in the day too. Very tiring.
If you are sincerely interested ask for contacts and directions here. We can suggets a self-guided tour and you can meet the conservationists first
hand and make your contribution to their efforts directly.
[Edited on 5-8-2009 by gnukid]
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