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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
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Mood: Peacefull
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| Quote: | Originally posted by meme
Question Please?
Is it also against the law to be found in possesion of a discarded(no turtle) Turtle shell? |
It is against US law to bring it into the states .
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desertcpl
Super Nomad
Posts: 2394
Registered: 10-26-2008
Location: yuma,az
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this is what they are saying on the Mulege forum
http://bajaforums.com/mulege-online.html
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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Interesting read---thanks
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ramuma53
My friends, it is clear that Olivia and Mark were selling and cooking for sale Turtle, that at this time is a protected specie in extintion danger,
the fact that it is good or bad to eat is not on debate or the fact, it also looks like the fact that they killed the turtles and cooked them is not
argued by Mark, Olivia's husband; the fact is that at this time, it is a Federal ofense to do that and she was caught in the act, a fact that not even
they denie; who blew the wistle is of no importance because if I knew I would have done it myself, but the same Conapesca authorities busted several
places that day, looks like it was an area action, we know that they searched the Hotel Buenaventura too, but found nothing illegal, but in the
Restaurant El Zargazo owned by Olivia and Mark, they found the big pot of stew cooking, full of people waiting for it and the heads of the poor
turtles in the trash can; also she was trying to go out of it, by saying that she is a MAFIA member or a Mafia Member relative; are those people who
some people argue are good guys, then my notion of a good guy is out of place; Is Mexico a lawfull place or not, are we going to protect the
endangered species or not, are we against the Mafia or not. |
No, it is not clear by far, too much bull**** going on here, and as far as mafia is concern, mano negra isnt an angel as well.
[Edited on 4-16-2009 by JESSE]
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desertcpl
Super Nomad
Posts: 2394
Registered: 10-26-2008
Location: yuma,az
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very confusing,,, I wonder if the real truth will come out
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Byron
Junior Nomad
Posts: 38
Registered: 6-11-2008
Location: San Diego
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I think this character first appeared in "Enter the Dragon".
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
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I dont know whats her name from the restaurant, if she did have turtle then shes an idiot and deserves to be jailed. BUT, this is just too easy for
this old TJ boy to accept, something is just not right, the timming too good. Considering the crowd mano negra runs with, i wouldnt be surprised if a
friend of hers was paid to plant the caguama, or to ask for her to keep it in the freezer for a day.
Right now, who ever claims theres papers to prove it is flat out liying. The lady has been arrested, thats all we have. But we havent heard her side.
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
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Mood: Peacefull
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
I dont know whats her name from the restaurant, if she did have turtle then shes an idiot and deserves to be jailed. BUT, this is just too easy for
this old TJ boy to accept, something is just not right, the timming too good. Considering the crowd mano negra runs with, i wouldnt be surprised if a
friend of hers was paid to plant the caguama, or to ask for her to keep it in the freezer for a day.
Right now, who ever claims theres papers to prove it is flat out liying. The lady has been arrested, thats all we have. But we havent heard her side.
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Jessie,
You are far too defensive of this woman..
The turtle wasn't in the freezer, it was in the kitchen being cooked ....
And so what if she was set up ....
Would you cook turtle in your restaurant if it were offered to you ....
I don't think you are that stupid .
CaboRon
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by CaboRon
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
I dont know whats her name from the restaurant, if she did have turtle then shes an idiot and deserves to be jailed. BUT, this is just too easy for
this old TJ boy to accept, something is just not right, the timming too good. Considering the crowd mano negra runs with, i wouldnt be surprised if a
friend of hers was paid to plant the caguama, or to ask for her to keep it in the freezer for a day.
Right now, who ever claims theres papers to prove it is flat out liying. The lady has been arrested, thats all we have. But we havent heard her side.
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Jessie,
You are far too defensive of this woman..
The turtle wasn't in the freezer, it was in the kitchen being cooked ....
And so what if she was set up ....
Would you cook turtle in your restaurant if it were offered to you ....
I don't think you are that stupid .
CaboRon |
Caboron,
All i know is that i have read different stories, some say caguama, others 1 skull, another several. So like i said, if the lady did sell turtle, then
fine, send her to jail, but, i have a feeling theres far more to this story considering who her adversary is.
I am not buying anything until the official documents come out, and we hear her side of the story. You have to understand, it wouldnt be a far fetched
thing to imagine this caracter offering someone close to this lady a parcel of land or cash to have her store or even cook caguama. But like i said,
if she did got caught selling turtle and thats the real truth, then send her to jail.
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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She probably understands the gravity of posting on the internet. Don't be suprised if you see reference made to BajaNomad in some future lawsuit.
When words are posted like we see here, it's just more fodder for lawsuits and litigation. Unfortunately this has taken place at a site dear to our
hearts and stirs up our interest.
It seems that while we haven't received the real facts(that's up to the authorities) someone has chosen to plant poisonous seeds pertaining to
property deeds and pending lawsuits. Wtf does that have to do with a stew pot of turtle pieces?
It's sorta ike calling the cops first. Looks and sounds like a well thought out scheme to me. Someone knows more than they are telling us.
Still like to hear about those fenced beaches though.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3882
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
Member Is Offline
Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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ramuma:
If the lady and her husband were killing and/or cooking turtles they were wrong and we need to let the legal system in Mexico investigate and do its
job. It will not be decided here on BajaNomad or any other forum where you want to you promote this PR campaign you seem to be so passionate about.
As far as the land and beach access, a court decision in your favor is not necessarily the last word in such matters. As you well know, here in Mexico
as in the USA, court decisions can be appealed up to higher court levels, and often reversed. I am involved with one such type of case in the San
Quintin area over land that has gone through such reversals and has now made its way up to the supreme court in Mexico, from where a final verdict is
about to be given.
When the case and all appeals have been exhausted in the courts, get back to me. In the meantime I am finding a lot of evidence online stating that
there are many who disagree with you, including several government officials and the Procuradora Federal de Protección al Ambiente, Maritza Muñoz
Vargas.
I am going to wait to see how this does play out in the courts and we all know that may take awhile. Until then I will not simply accept your version
of the story as a statement of the facts. Your perspective is obviously biased.
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ramuma53
Banned
Posts: 793
Registered: 2-27-2003
Location: Mulege B.C.S. Mexico
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Ok. first Sharkbaja
Those are lies, Requeson or Buenaventura roads never were closed, and if you know the area, through Requeson road you can access any other beach;
there were other 3 entrances that were closed for security reason; as you must know, last year an American was killed in La Armenta and closing all
those entrances enhanced the area security because to enter the beaches you have to pass in front of a lot of people; so the bottom of it is that the
beaches never were closed and it was a complete lie as every authority there is, found out because motivate by 5, 8 columns first pages on El
Sudcaliforniano went to verify and ask every person arround, but when they arrived, Requeson was full of people and completely open, the same for
Buenaventura; the funny thing is that the day the first news came out, the Estate police was there because they were investigating the roberies in our
area, so the Police commander and agents are withnesses that the beaches were never closed.
That is what I am talking about, you have to be there to know the true facts, the nespaper is printing every lie Olivia send them, without even
checking on it.
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ramuma53
Banned
Posts: 793
Registered: 2-27-2003
Location: Mulege B.C.S. Mexico
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ELINVEST8 now, you are bringing out exactly the right questions, lets comapare the two caracters and I know the two of them.
Engineer Rafael Munoz Martinez, also attorney at law, was a Senate Candidate for North Baja on the 2000 elections, he owned then the ABC Baja
newspaper and has a lot of journalistic trophies, past president of 2 small land owners associations in Rosarito beach, he was teaching martial arts
ar the Army School when he was 18 years old, advisor for 2 lawmakers, congresswoman Mercedes Erdman and Mercedes Maciel, he founder of the Workers
Party in Rosarito Beach and security advisor for the Mexican Army, I would trust any amount of money to Munoz while feeling safe and more would be
overkill ok, but remember thr Army connection.
Olivia Higuera Aguilar, she used to work for the Electrical Company in Mexicali Baja, whith her ex husband Michael, she started bringing all kind of
stuf from Central Mexico and bought even an airplane, they were bringing even wores to Buenaventura restaurant and one of them run off with her
husband; two of her older brothers were killed in drug wars in Mexicali, she is a realtive of Martin Anaya Gorosave and just check on that one with
your local DEA; she has 8 open criminal prosecutions in Mulege one of them for injuryes to an American with intent to kill and now one Federal for the
turtles; she is selling alchool without a legal Federal permit for Federal Zone, she rent a house when it it prohibited by law to sub lease any part
of Federal Zone and now she was caught cooking and selling sea turtle; also all arround here we see the unloading of boats at 3 AM and the next day a
lot of policemen coming for 10 minute visits to her restaurant and have seen the army trying to catch them running all over the beach several times,
she was sentenced along with her ex husband Mike for taking in a fraudulent way money from Mr. and Mrs. Christ, a couple who gave them money to build
a house and got nothing and she never paid back a cent; she took more than $250,000 USD from my neighbor Mr. Stan Valentine who never got a cent back.
To who would you trust some money?
Also a lot of times, Olivia and Mark refuse service to Mexicans in her restaurant and refuse to grant access to the boats ramp and that is also
against the law.
As you see, you have to know facts first hand to really have an opinion, but don't belive me, ask my neighbors who are Americans like Mr. Thad and
Lora Jones at thadbrax@yahoo.com , or Mr. Stan Valentine or Mr. Murphy at TERRYRMURF@aol.com who are deffending themselves from Agrarian claims
from Olivia, who is trying to get their houses. and gues who is helping us to keep our houses, Mr. Munoz.
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3882
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
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Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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ramuma:
Everything you say may be 100% correct. Maybe it is all 100% bulls**t - I really haven't a clue as I don't know you or any of the other players
involved. What I do know is that you are much more passionate about this than just a casual observer and I also know that there is probably another
side to the story which we are not hearing. When one is deeply involved as you are in this, it is almost impossible to be unbiased which is why I and
others will wait for the truth to come out on its own, as it usually does over time.
I would suggest you consider using the edit function on some of your postings here as some of it could probably be deemed slander.
YMMV
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rpleger
Super Nomad
Posts: 1087
Registered: 3-12-2005
Location: H. Mulegé, BCS
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Mood: Was good.
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This keeps getting better and better. He says, she says...
Richard on the Hill
*ABROAD*, adj. At war with savages and idiots. To be a Frenchman abroad is to
be miserable; to be an American abroad is to make others miserable.
-- Ambrose Bierce, _The Enlarged Devil\'s Dictionary_
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
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One thing is sure, there is a +hitload of lies around here from both sides.
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ramuma53
Banned
Posts: 793
Registered: 2-27-2003
Location: Mulege B.C.S. Mexico
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BajaGringo
Concerning the land, I am sorry to tell you that the land at this minute is not subjected to any trial, because the Ejido La Purisima backed up their
claims against Munoz, because they found out through official channels that Munoz property title was good and legal after a 2 years investigation by
the Federal Police because an Olivia claim, so there is never going to be a Supreme Court ruling because there is no trial, the only trials are Olivia
against the home tenants, JUICIO AGRARIO: TUA-48-047/2006. POBLADO LA PURÍSIMA MUNICIPIO DE COMONDÚ and others against us;
trying to collect $250,000 USD from each one of us, but it has already been proved that her Ejido Land is 1 Km north of Munoz property and does not
everlap.
At this minute nobody is challenging Munoz property rights in any court, all the claims have already been dropped after investigation.
Also, our topic was not about the land, it was about the morality of killing turtles and cooking them for sale; this started because I see that many
of us, take this ban as a shalow thing, like if the bad thing is that she was caught cooking a big stew pot, with 2 bloody shells and two turtle heads
in her trash can, all this in a restaurant full of people waiting for the food.
You acuse me of being biased, but I see a lot of bias from people who do not personally know the real facts or Mr. Munoz or the whole story.
Also you acuse Munoz of drug connections and say it as if you know it for a fact; if you knew him, you will know it is exactly the oposite, he is on
the other side and I know that Olivia use Crack and cocaine because I have been there and I know that with Munoz, he don't even smoke cigaretes and
drugs are out of the question.
My friends, any one of you have access to DEA, just ask for the two of them, you will get a very different opinion about both of them; there Mr. Munoz
is known as Mr. Munoz while Olivias is known as "La Vaquera" and her Mafia realtive as "El Gordo" and just look at the records there.
Of course I am angry, but I am mad about those drug landings on our beach at 3:30 AM, the roberies and violence against all of us, who suposedly came
to Baja to a paradise.
I also know a lot of people who think Olivia is a nice people, but not many Mexicans think like that, or for that matter any person who lives on
Buenaventura beach Mexican or American.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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meme, Good question!! Who knows? 
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
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One thing this thread has done is kill any interest in buying property on your beach.
Ken
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ramuma53
Banned
Posts: 793
Registered: 2-27-2003
Location: Mulege B.C.S. Mexico
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tripledigitken
Don't worry, Munoz is not selling, but fore sure if it comes to that, I will any time buy a house from Mr. Munoz without losing my sleep and with time
I asure you, this place is going to be one of the safest and legal places on Baja, we are not just reading newspapers, we are doing something and yes
I am extremely biased against killing turtles and losing my house to Olivia.
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