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tehag
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Turtle??
In all of this agenda-driven mud slinging there is only one statement that I know is absolutely false. That is the following, submitted by the
guacamole person(s):
"You can tell because he had the hand chopped off when he got caught stealing in the middle east!"
Under Sharia the right hand is cut off, never the left. Second offense they lop off the left foot.
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ELINVESTIG8R
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I did not know this at the time but when I was in the Gulf War I did not know that the left hand was used to clean their butts over there when they
went #2. The right hand is reserved as their eating utensil. I am left handed and you should have seen the look on the Saudi’s faces when I used my
left hand to dip into the food in the communal platter at the meal I ate at one of the Prince's tent one evening. It was priceless.
My guess is that if they cut of the right hand it must be because they want you to eat with the same hand they clean their butt with. I am not
positive but I think the comment made by OLIGUACOMOLE was made in jest!
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OLIGUACOMOLE
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THE HAND
DON'T KNOW REALLY THE TRUE STORY ABOUT THE HAND JOB. YOU CAN ASK MUNOZ HE WILL TELL YOU THE TRUE AND YOU KNOW IT IS TRUE....JUST ASK EDDIE.
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OLIGUACOMOLE
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NOW I WANT TO TALK ABOUT BEING ACCUSED OF TURNING MEXICANS AWAY FROM OUR RESTAURANT. QUITE THE CONTRARY UNLESS YOU ARE THE MUNOZ CREW. I WILL SERVE
THEM, BUT REMEMBER MOVIE CASINO, THE SCENE IN NICKY'S RESTAURANT! OK....SOMETIMES TOURISTS CHECK INTO THE HOTEL AND THE HOTEL TELLS THEM TO COME KNOCK
ON OUR HOUSE DOOR FOR SERVICE. WHEN I TELL THEM WE ARE CLOSED THEY SAY WELL THE GUYS IN THE HOTEL SAID YOU WILL SERVE US! SOMETIMES WE JUST NEED TO
CLOSE. ALSO SOMETIMES I SUSPECT CUSTOMERS ARE MUNOZ'S FRIENDS.
WE ARE MOST OF THE TIME OPEN
AND SOMETIMES CLOSED...
THIS IS THE SIGN ON OUR RESTAURANT DOOR
JUST ASK ANY OF THE FOUR DOGS OUTSIDE OUR RESTAURANT!
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OLIGUACOMOLE
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WITH ALL THE HOOPLA OLIVIA AND I ARE THINKING OF RENAMING THE RESTAURANT TO THE:
TORTUGA FELIZ OR THE HAPPY TURTLE????
PRESENT NAME SARGASSO JUST DOES NOT WORK FOR ME.
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Baja&Back
Senior Nomad
Posts: 549
Registered: 9-10-2004
Location: Vancouver, Canada / todo de Baja
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Mood: Rarin' to go South!
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This guy Munoz, being a typical shyster lawyer, has being twisting the law to harass Olivia & Marko since we've known them (5 years). My take on
this is that he's probably peeed that Olivia had the good sense to apply for the Federal Maritime Concession in front of Munoz's hotel because he
hadn't the forsight to do so. I looked it up - she does indeed have the concession registered in her name until 11/01/2015.
If asked, I would guess that he was the one who set them up with the blue turtle soup & called the cops .
I am also peeed, for everyone in Bahia Concepcion, that Munoz would invade and fence off public & private land of others and try to BS everyone
into thinking he has title to all that property. He, if anyone knows how long it takes the Mexican courts to get squatters kicked off private
property. My friend in Los Barriles has been fighting to get invading squatters off his property for 3 years now. What's next? Is Munoz going to try
to fence off Santispac, Coyote & Posada???
This guy doesn't seem content to fight his little war quietly. He has been working overtime harassing everyone with any interest in the Concepcion
area. He sent us, and other caravan company owners, emails saying we had to pay him, in future, to park on Requeson or Buenaventura. Fat chance,
Bucko! I have emailed the other owners, giving them a bit more objective view of the situation.
I wonder if it's him who has been trying to get control of properties around Posada by claiming they are abandoned, just because owners went back to
the US for the summer???
I don't have a direct interest in this issue, but am morally choked at this guy's snake-in-the-grass way of trying to screw people. I certainly do
tell people I encounter to avoid patronizing the hotel San Buenaventura!
**Disclaimer: To cover my a** and avoid persecution by Munoz, the above is my personal opinion and personal speculation only, and is not intended, in
any way, to slander anyone described in my posting.
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Byron
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How about renaming your restaurant "Touche Turtle" or "The Ninja Turtle" ?
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BajaGringo
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Posts: 3882
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Location: La Chorera
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Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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That is exactly right - many who own "ocean front" property incorrectly assume that they automatically have control of the beach in front of them. The
"zona federal" is a concession and must be applied for and then paid for separately. If you own property that is ocean front and don't apply for the
concession, a neighbor has the legal right to do so and this does happen often in such cases. I know of one going on right now in the Rosarito area.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Baja&Back
This guy Munoz, being a typical shyster lawyer, has being twisting the law to harass Olivia & Marko since we've known them (5 years). My take on
this is that he's probably peeed that Olivia had the good sense to apply for the Federal Maritime Concession in front of Munoz's hotel because he
hadn't the forsight to do so. |
Maybe more a matter of arrogance than lack of forsight. People of even limited power in Mexico feel that the rules and regulations only apply to
others. Kind of like members of the current U.S. Cabinet blowing off their tax obligations.
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Dave
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Registered: 11-5-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by Baja&Back
This guy Munoz, being a typical shyster lawyer, has being twisting the law to harass Olivia & Marko since we've known them (5 years). My take on
this is that he's probably peeed that Olivia had the good sense to apply for the Federal Maritime Concession in front of Munoz's hotel because he
hadn't the forsight to do so. |
Maybe more a matter of arrogance than lack of forsight. People of even limited power in Mexico feel that the rules and regulations only apply to
others. Kind of like members of the current U.S. Cabinet blowing off their tax obligations. |
The arrogance was evident on both sides. Obtaining a concession in front of property you don't own?
Nice. 
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3882
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Location: La Chorera
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Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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It is a distinction made in Mexican property law. To be accurate, I guess the only real oceanfront property is the federal concession (zona federal).
The property behind it is beachfront - not oceanfront. Seems like splitting hairs but understanding that difference is important and understanding how
important those few meters are can help to avoid such scenarios.
We own a few meters back from beachfront so that will never be an issue for us.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
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Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
The arrogance was evident on both sides. Obtaining a concession in front of property you don't own?
Nice. |
Reminds me of when some opportunist licensed the Hussong name for clothing etc. right under Hussong's nose.
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OLIGUACOMOLE
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NOW WAIT, ABOUT THE CONCESSION THING. IT HAS BEEN UNDER OLIVIA SINCE 92. BUT WITH LITTLE ENFORCEMENT OF THE FEDERAL ZONE BY AUTHORITIES. MUNOZ CHARGES
FOR CAMPING AND USING THE BEACH EVEN THOUGH OLIVIA PAYS THE FEDERAL ZONE. I WILL ESTIMATE THAT MUNOZ AND CREW HAVE ROBBED US OF AT 100000 PESOS PER
YEAR CHARGING FOR OUR PERMITED FEDERAL ZONE. HE TRIES TO GET AWAY WITH IT BY CALLING THE CHARGE AN ENTRANCE FEE. THIS IS WHY THE BEACH IS USUALLY
EMPTY IN FRONT OF THE HOTEL.
CONCESSIONS ARE NOT EASY TO GET. IN OUR CASE THE LAND HAS TO BE RE-SURVEYED EVERY 10 YEARS, AND GET AN ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT STUDY BEFORE RENEWAL CAN
BE GRANTED. IN 02 THIS COST US OVER 5000 DLLS. THEN YOU HAVE AN ANNUAL FEE WHICH IS NOT CHEAP. DEPENDING ON YOU TYPE OF CONCESSION YOU PAY A DIFFERENT
SCALE.
MUNOZ SAYS HE HAS OWNED BUENAVENTURA SINCE 1971. THAT MAKES HIM 18 WHEN HE BOUGHT THE PLACE!?!
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BajaGringo
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Posts: 3882
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The federal zone is resurveyed each time as the line may be re-drawn. That is because it is subject to change over time due to tidal action, storms,
natural erosion, etc. Anybody buying beachfront needs to be aware of this and something to be very careful with when building there. I have seen some
deal with problems over this very issue.
As far as Muñoz "owning" the property since he was 18, that may or may not be true. It is a custom here in Mexico for folks to say they "own" a
property when in fact title is held in the name of their father or grandfather. They use the family tie very loosely when discussing property down
here, although in court only the name on the escritura is what really matters.
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DianaT
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Posts: 10020
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| Quote: | Originally posted by OLIGUACOMOLE
NOW WAIT, ABOUT THE CONCESSION THING. IT HAS BEEN UNDER OLIVIA SINCE 92. BUT WITH LITTLE ENFORCEMENT OF THE FEDERAL ZONE BY AUTHORITIES. MUNOZ CHARGES
FOR CAMPING AND USING THE BEACH EVEN THOUGH OLIVIA PAYS THE FEDERAL ZONE. I WILL ESTIMATE THAT MUNOZ AND CREW HAVE ROBBED US OF AT 100000 PESOS PER
YEAR CHARGING FOR OUR PERMITED FEDERAL ZONE. HE TRIES TO GET AWAY WITH IT BY CALLING THE CHARGE AN ENTRANCE FEE. THIS IS WHY THE BEACH IS USUALLY
EMPTY IN FRONT OF THE HOTEL.
CONCESSIONS ARE NOT EASY TO GET. IN OUR CASE THE LAND HAS TO BE RE-SURVEYED EVERY 10 YEARS, AND GET AN ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT STUDY BEFORE RENEWAL CAN
BE GRANTED. IN 02 THIS COST US OVER 5000 DLLS. THEN YOU HAVE AN ANNUAL FEE WHICH IS NOT CHEAP. DEPENDING ON YOU TYPE OF CONCESSION YOU PAY A DIFFERENT
SCALE.
MUNOZ SAYS HE HAS OWNED BUENAVENTURA SINCE 1971. THAT MAKES HIM 18 WHEN HE BOUGHT THE PLACE!?! |
We stayed once at the Buenaventura many years ago and liked the location. So in 2005 when we had our small trailer, we thought we would camp in
front.
The women in the hotel told us no problem and it would be free. Then they told us that the people in the restuarant next door might come over and
either try to tell us to leave or want us to pay THEM. They told us to just ignore them. There was no fee of any kind being charged by the hotel at
that time.
Since we realized that there was obviously a dispute going one, we chose leave and camp elsewhere.
As said before, it seems like there are lots of versions to this entire story. I certainly hope that it is resolved without anyone being hurt
unjustly.
But it certainly won't be solved on a forum.
Diane
[Edited on 4-19-2009 by jdtrotter]
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by jdtrotter
As said before, it seems like there are lots of versions to this entire story. I certainly hope that it is resolved without anyone being hurt
unjustly.
But it certainly won't be solved on a forum.
Diane
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Truer words were never spoken...
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shari
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Posts: 13034
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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As we often do on Sunday's, we gathered to eat together and the conversations are always lively...usually covering topics like c-ck fighting (which is
very very popular here), horse issues (all horses have now been banned from the back yards of houses in town), tinted windows (so and so got caught
and fined...another so and so didnt), and of course the latest gossip about poachers and fishing offenses. Of course the turtle issue came up and i
asked about how many villagers partake in this delicacy. I was thinking probably 70-80% and was not surprised at the answer that most people here eat
it at least once a year! or whenever they can.
PErhaps in TJ, it is not tradition but in the small coastal fishing villages, it certainly WAS....and I say WAS.... because as a result of harsher
punishment now...everyone is being more careful and definately the consumption has cut down...and hopefully eliminated soon.
A few years ago in another area I heard of folks having stew and I asked, what about the authorities...the answer was...oh no problem as long as
they get a pot of it for their families too...so changes in attitudes and culture will come only with the elimination of corrupt officials.
The most interesting thing is though that turtle takers and eaters are not usually caught by the authorities... but are turned in....generally by
people who have an axe to grind or as an act of revenge for some other thing. Seeems it's a very effective way to punish someone or get rid of them
for awhile.
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wilderone
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Shari - does the real turtle issue ever come up - i.e., preserving a species? Don't the people appreciate this concept? Do they acknowledge that there
aren't many turtles to be seen any longer, and then wonder why? They have a good grasp of the lobster populations and understand why there are
controls - why not the turtle? Are they aware of the turtle preservation projects at Mag Bay and elsewhere? Why do they think these projects are
necessary?
Thanks for enlightening us all on this statistic. Is it safe to assume then that other small villages do likewise? That everyone will take a turtle
at least once a year if they can get away with it?
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
A few years ago in another area I heard of folks having stew and I asked, what about the authorities...the answer was...oh no problem as long as
they get a pot of it for their families too...so changes in attitudes and culture will come only with the elimination of corrupt officials.
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Interesting about the horses---quite a change that I am sure not everyone is happy about. There are quite a few horses in town.
Regarding the corrupt officials, IMHO, it is one of those chicken and egg things. Do things change when the officials quite being corrupt, or do
things change when people quit paying the officials off so they can break the law.
Change is difficult for many people. But this is going off topic.
Diane
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shari
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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when we talk about conservation issues, most seem to think there are LOTS of turtles around as the fishermen do see them all the time and the fact
they arent harvested commercially seems to make them think that if they take just one...well...that wont affect the population much. They just dont
really see it as poaching...just one for a family feast...as opposed to poaching for commercial sale purposes which is really frowned upon.
this happened to the berrendo...pronghorn antelope as well which was also a traditional delicacy which is now highly illegal...but there are hardly
anymore around now so this has been effectively cut from the diet due to a shortage of animals more than anything.
It's weird as even though people seem sympathetic to conservation issues and understand it...well...turtle stew seem to be just really hard to pass up
when offered. but I shall do my best at spreading the word about the plight of the endangered tortugas.
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