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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
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It doesn't sound so bad when you talk about it Shari!
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13034
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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This thread was intended to...
(a) announce the first bracelets and thus celebrate getting our permits
(b) inform nomads of new enforcement of old regs so they already are
prepared for it if they get charged....or can go and pay it with Jaime
(c) post a picture of a cool nomad asvazques and his awesome son benito who I wish to thank personally for dontating a bunch of great equipment for
the baseball little league here...gracias carlos
so I propose a toast....or perhaps Dennis will do that...raise our glasses to us finally getting our Reserve permits!!! chin chin...salud and whew.
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
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If you're happy then I guess this is a good thing!
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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All of Mexico's protected areas are works in progress. The rules, enforcement, are all evolving.
Each area has an advisory council, made up of appointed Mexican citizens. They have influence over what the park can do.
Park or protected area rules cannot violate federal laws. For example, bag limits for fish are a federal issue. However (and this may seem
contradictory) the protected areas may close areas to fishing.
Who needs a bracelet? Anyone using the protected area who is not a local resident. In Loreto, the requirement has evolved from those going ashore at
the islands to, presently, anyone launching at the ramp, even if they plan to fish/whale watch/swim/dive outside the park.
Granted, the bracelets and fee collections come first. Patient, persistent local (and perhaps visiting) opinion can possibly influence how funds are
collected and spent. If, for example, you believe that paying for trash cleanups is not the best use of the funds, come up with an alternative and
sell it to the locals.
In Loreto it has been frustrating to see increased efforts to collect fees while little of significance is done to protect anything. But recently
there have been hints that things may change. There have been reports of significant enforcement of the few restrictions on nets. A local conservation
group has been established and appears to have a dedicated and capable staffer who is willing to take on the status quo. IMO, positive changes may be
coming, even if they may be slower than molasses.
Results may differ in different areas. Good luck to all the folks in Asuncion and I'll have a bracelet or a pass when I visit.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
so I propose a toast....or perhaps Dennis will do that...raise our glasses to us finally getting our Reserve permits!!! chin chin...salud and whew.
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OK...Bottoms up......................................I'm talking about your beverage now.
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15938
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Everchangin'
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thanks Shari.
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rpleger
Super Nomad
Posts: 1087
Registered: 3-12-2005
Location: H. Mulegé, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: Was good.
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Chin Chin...
Richard on the Hill
*ABROAD*, adj. At war with savages and idiots. To be a Frenchman abroad is to
be miserable; to be an American abroad is to make others miserable.
-- Ambrose Bierce, _The Enlarged Devil\'s Dictionary_
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onego
Newbie
Posts: 2
Registered: 6-23-2009
Member Is Offline
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Shary, they will clean san roque next year? You should clean the mess you have with the local people of Guerrero Negro, Laguna de San Ignacio and now
the people of BA.
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jorgie
Nomad
Posts: 430
Registered: 8-25-2006
Location: on another road,again
Member Is Offline
Mood: on the road....again,again
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this thread makes me realize that it's getting on to summer and time for me to clean my back yard ...........work , work , when will it get finished
...
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13034
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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On our beach walk yesterday Zoe and I planned a litter party in San Roque...BBQ, beach and village clean up this summer when we have more help. Most
of the trash on the beach are plastic bottles...outboard oil bottles and the village is strewn with disposable plates, cups, bags etc. blown around by
the wind.
It is maddening always picking up someone elses trash...the locals come to the beach and now they sometimes put their garbage in a bag but just leave
it on the beach for the birds to get at and strew around. I am constantly picking up after people there.
I would like to commend bobby...a lurker...who camped there and gathered several bags of trash around the beach area he camped in....thanks
man...maybe the Reserve could use it's criteria and not charge campers who pick up garbage??? I'm serious.
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Packoderm
Super Nomad
Posts: 2116
Registered: 11-7-2002
Member Is Offline
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I wouldn't complain if my biosphere fees went toward cleaning the local's trash - if the fees actually do get used for that. I'd like to see my fee
money go towards renting a dump truck and picking up the rusted mattress springs and other discarded metal stuff from San Roque. Perhaps they should
make locals buy a bracelet if caught littering. I'm glad they have the passport where we don't have to wear the all-inclusive resort type bracelets.
If the fees don't fund any kind of program, perhaps the fees can be thought to go towards relieving development pressures. I'd rather pay the 25
dollars to camp at San Roque rather than camp in front of a bunch of vacation homes for free. One of the things I like about San Roque is that there
is a degree of freedom. Development would obliterate this. If developed, there would be people to tell you what you can and can not do. Even if the
biosphere fees go to any particular individual's personal income, it would be in his best interest to promote his district as an area worth visiting.
However, if they are going to sell off the land and build the big, ugly entry arches to pending mega resorts and that sort of stuff, then the
biosphere fee system is a scam.
As far as who pays, we should just pay for the passport and then debate about it if you want. Family discounts or reduced fees for children should be
an option. If I had an FM3 and had a home, I'd pay for the passport. It's their land after all, and it's up to us to take care of it for them. (just kidding)
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13034
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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I doubt the Reserve can/will stop development. Nearly everyone who comes here asks about the possibility of buying land in San Roque...the reason it
is still nice and empty is that this area is in a legal battle between the ejido and cooperativa....it was always a fish camp even before the ejidos
were formed...thus no sales yet thank goodness. The place is magic because it's empty and just an abandoned village. Time will tell what happens there
so we enjoy it while we can.
we would love to be in on any kind of local consultation regarding Reserve issues, fee uses etc. I requested a meeting to be held here for information
purposes.
by the way Packoderm....how's Lucy Lap dancer doing? Spooky is still waiting to immigrate to your place and did good job on the mouse population
control in san roque.
[Edited on 6-27-2009 by shari]
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
Pam, could you please point us to the particular part of that link that shows the money goes to Mexico. Did you mean "all park money", just your local
Loreto money or money in biospheres in general?
The site is in Spanish, I read a little Spanish and i can't clearly read where it tells me where the money ends up. It is vitally important that the
money stays where it does the most good. It says nothing of FONMAR or Tourist User Fees in general or particular that I can find.
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I am afraid that I don't have time to explain the many layers of beaurocracy in Mexico but conanp and conapesca and fonmar are different animals so to
speak. on the conanp website that I posted it clearly states in spanish where the money goes, how much it costs and and how to pay. unfortunately as
loaded with information the mexican beaurocratic websites are, they are difficult to navigate even if you do understand the language. if you do not
want to believe what I say that is fine but I work with these agencies every day here. to me it sounds like the viscaino biosphere reserve is just
getting their act together on collecting fees and issuing passes and also they seem to be still determining who needs one and who does not. they'll
work it out eventually.
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
| Quote: | Originally posted by fishbuck
| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
Well the bracelet was to show you paid a fee as a tourist. Remember, way back in the thread? Go back Buck. Go back. |
Ya bird, we're way past that. Try to keep up will you. |
Okay, I'll ask for about the 5th time, can anyone tell me who needs a bracelet? |
for the second time anyone using the reserve who is not a resident.
I do not know how they control land users but here in Loreto all visitors (non residents) to Loreto's marine park need to have a permit (in bracelet
or annual passport form). the permit allows one to basicaly use the park, snorkel, boat, fish, whale watch, sail, kayak, all water activities and
technically beachcombing nature walks and photography. These are specifically stated in the conanp website under our particular park. I'm not saying
I like the idea I am just telling the way it is.
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
Member Is Offline
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It's not that I don't believe you. If you say all the money for all the reserves go to a big bag in the cellar of the old mission I would believe it.
I believe what ever you say. You are not a liar. You are a fine woman. You are very smart and very honest. Enough?
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fishbuck
Ya, none of the poachers stealing all of the fish out of the park have been burned have they. They set their gill nets all around the "park".
Or that big tuna clipper with helicopter in there scooping up all your fish.
I doubt if they bought a band either.
Only honest people buy the band. And yes, they are getting burned.
[Edited on 6-25-2009 by fishbuck] |
while what you say is understandible we need to follow the laws and that is that but the part about the seiner you don't have completely correct
because there is new news in that the park boundry and where that boat was at working will be key in an upcoming investigation on that boat. our
photos and persistence helped and we wouldn't have been able to get anywhere if it weren't for this park being here. you ought to know by now in
mexico things take time, slow down and help it happen don't just sit and complain. this isn't meant for just you its in a general sense.
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
It's not that I don't believe you. If you say all the money for all the reserves go to a big bag in the cellar of the old mission I would believe it.
I believe what ever you say. You are not a liar. You are a fine woman. You are very smart and very honest. Enough? |
geeze yes enough to embarass me. we are trying to change the situation of monies staying in the reserves where they are collected but this takes
time. we will prevail but we must be patient.
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
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osprey and others that may be interested I have posted a pdf file on my site that you can download. it explains some studies that have taken place
within the marine park at Loreto and some other good information. There are great scientists here working on good things and the wonderful thing is
that we're getting them together with the local people who know this area intimately. we're hoping they can be trained to do some grunt (tech) work
for upcoming studies. here's that link:
http://www.bajabigfish.com/responsibleusers.pdf
edited to say that above pdf is in English
[Edited on 6-27-2009 by flyfishinPam]
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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If you're a "resident" you've got a free pass. The residents will soon have it
all to themselves.
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Don Alley
Who needs a bracelet? Anyone using the protected area who is not a local resident.
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It seems to me that the American tourist is being targeted to clean up the mess in these (p)reserves. That's wrong. Those who are most responsible
should be charged the most (or at least the same), regardless of their income.
The whole thing seems like yet another way to fleece the tourist. It's not about the $5.
The US park system doesn't discrimate like that - all are charged the same usage fee.
Pam, while I admire your work on those committees to enforce the laws at the Loreto marine reserve the following scenario comes to mind. Task: to
clean up our waters. How do we do it? Well, certainly not the Mexican residents because they won't stand for it. Not, the American residents because
they are residents. I know, let's charge the people who don't come to our meetings and have no say in the matter - the American tourist.
So far, I have a low opinion of this bracelet concept.
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