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steekers
Nomad
Posts: 255
Registered: 12-4-2007
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Border Patrol Continues to Hassle Us Pilots!!
For those of you who love to fly south into Baja, the Border Patrol (CBP) is becoming a real threat to our basic freedoms.
Just this 4th of July we were questioned AND searched for some unknown reason just prior to departing Palomar Airport in Carlsbad, CA. This is where I
fly out of and it has a customs office available 24/7 for pilots.
I filed online a day before using the mandatory govt website and thus telling the CBP just when we would depart. I filed for a 10AM departure and just
as our bags were loaded, 3 CBP officers came up to stop us. They said it was a "routine inspection" and proceded to ask very personal questions. Then
they scanned the plane with a hand-held device and started going through our bags. When asked what triggered this shakedown, they were mute. Gee, what
did their databases have that would warrant such a search? Of course they won't tell you. After all the humiliation was over, and not finding what I
am told they are looking for (money and guns) they let us depart more than an hour late.
I was later told by the regular staff CBP officer that the 2 other officers came from Lindberg just to check us out. The airport manager, tower, and
the staff CBP officer all told these two officers we were regulars there and had been to Baja many, many times by air and ground and our passports had
been scrutinized dozens of times coming into the US. These two CBP officers had some bogus info on us and they seemed determined to find something in
our possession.
For those of you who do not fly, but drive into Baja, the recent actions of the Border Patrol toward us pilots should be of concern to you as well
because the violations may soon be against you! The DHS (Department of Homeland Security) is wanting to extend the reporting of ALL travelers to
Mexico as us pilots now must do.
Like most other citizens, I would not like to see another 9-11 but I do not want our US govt to violate our basic freedoms in the name of "security".
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sd
Nomad
Posts: 487
Registered: 3-19-2008
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Doesn't seem like a "Violation" to me. Probably needs to be done more often to stop the weapons from going south.
I don't fly private. They can search my car, my bags, my airline bag, etc. No problem. A delay is not a big deal if the result is safer travel.
I of course don't know what happened in your case. My opinion is a general one.
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Mexray
Super Nomad
Posts: 1016
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: California Delta
Member Is Offline
Mood: Baja Time
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I'm not a 'smoker', but do you remember....
...when, initially, cigarette smokers were quarantined to 'smokers' only areas...
Then, smoking was banned from public restaurants (not a bad idea), etc...
Then, smoking was banned in all public buildings...
Now, smokers are not allowed to 'suck on a cigarette' near a building's outer entrance...
Do-gooders in our vaulted legislature are now considering banning smoking in one's own home...and possibly in automobiles...and probably more places
we haven't heard of yet...while they continue to enjoy the fruits of the high 'sin tax' revenues...
See any similarities with the searches here??? These Govt laws start on a very slippery slope, and continue till we've lost another freedom in the
name of 'the public good'...how much protection from ourselves will Govt continue to shove down our throats???
According to my clock...anytime is \'BAJA TIME\' & as Jimmy Buffett says,
\"It doesn\'t use numbers or moving hands It always just says now...\"
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15937
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Everchangin'
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hopefully they don't want to "impress" upon you in the future how necessary their inspections really are..... adapt or else!
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
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Mood: Sling time!
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much about this on BBP and here other threads - the Long Beach incident for one.
freedoms are disappearing....all in the name of "security".....your papers please....eastern Europe days here we come.
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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airmech
Nomad
Posts: 183
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Murrieta Ca
Member Is Offline
Mood: Expeditionary
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steekers,
Are you a BBP member? If not I let me know and I will report it to Jack McCormick. I'm sure Jack is keeping track/reports on how often this happens.
Last month, just by word of mouth, I know of five incidents. None of which BBP officers found anythingr.
So far BBP is 0 for finding anything in these searches. Too bad, they are wasting alot of money and time searching the wrong people. Maybe they will
start feeling stupid after a while of not producing any results especially if someone like Jack is keeping track and writing letters to the
congressmen.
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute.
— George Bernard Shaw
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
Member Is Offline
Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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I would suggest that you pilot types start a letter writing campaign documenting these incidents and your concerns to your US Congressmen/women and US
Senator(s) that represent your district......nothing rattles a government agency/employee more than responding to a request for information on an
incident than a letter from DC
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9006
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
Member Is Offline
Mood: Inquisitive
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Well, let's see, probably 80% of the time I cross the border by land, I am subjected to a secondary search by our CBP. Twice we were separated from
our vehicle while the search went on. No probably cause that WE know of.
I see it happening to lots of other Americans while I am in there. Especially the Hispanic looking ones. I am not one of them.
Then there's the occasional boardings at sea off San Diego that started a few years back. All many of those boaters were doing was chasing a few tuna.
Hard to see probably cause there.
Sounds like you pilots have gotten off pretty easy so far. Quit being so elitist. It's not like they can easily pull you over on your way down, now,
is it? They have to intercede at the point most effective in their eyes, given the reality that cash and weapons are funding a very real threat south
of us. Should you not be subjected to searches returning as well since there is no probable cause?
Tell me something; does all your baggage and you have to go through a metal detector search at Palomar? Just wondering.............
I'll tell you what I think is going on. They've identified some "frequent flyers" to Mexico and have told the CBP troops to make some very eye (and
discussion board) catching searches. I'm sure they know about Nomads and BBP and XXX boards and they are using these high profile searches to get the
word out that you could be searched at any time. It's a helluva deterrent to those who would attempt to break the law. Gets the word out; you cant
just fly down to foreign countries w/o the potential for inspection any more.
Sorry, but I think Bajaguy's quote from Orwell shows quite well that we actually do live in an Orwellian world. Oh well.
Blame the religious fanatics, not those who would prevent their attempts, for all this.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by airmech
Maybe they will start feeling stupid after a while of not producing any results |
They arn't bothered by "feeling stupid." Their motivation is feeling powerful.
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ElFaro
Nomad
Posts: 231
Registered: 9-16-2007
Member Is Offline
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If it's any comfort...my wife and I tow a toy hauler down to Baja all the time and although we don't do motorcycles or quads ( we like the hauler for
dry camping) we get a mandatory secondary inspection every time. They are checking for everthing but mostly get us for some fruits or meat products
we forgot to jettison B4 we crossed the border back to the US.
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k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
Member Is Offline
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The original poster said
"Like most other citizens, I would not like to see another 9-11 but I do not want our US govt to violate our basic freedoms in the name of "security".
Violation? Are you thinking that it was an illegal search?
Also, the search probably wasn't a result of 9-11, more likely the result of American drug users buying drugs from the Mexican traffickers.
Not the war on terrorism, the war on drugs.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64490
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Mexico apparently has convinced the Obama that weapons are getting into Mexico illegally from the north on planes and cars, and would he please stop
it. Since Mexico has started searching cars at the border in the main line of traffic (we saw this at Mexicali last Friday) maybe they convinced the
U.S. to search our airplanes when we leave?
ElFaro:
As for what we can bring back into the U.S., here is the list (from a few years ago):
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3455
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
They arn't bothered by "feeling stupid." Their motivation is feeling powerful. |
Power comes with the job. There isn't a sinister plot to harass people here. These guys are doing their jobs -- and aggressive police work is
often rewarded. Kinda a quota system. More arrests, more promotion.
If you are not guilty, you have nothing to fear. They're from the Government. They're here to help.
They need to be professional. They don't need to be nice. If they were unprofessional, report them.
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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airmech
Nomad
Posts: 183
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Murrieta Ca
Member Is Offline
Mood: Expeditionary
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doing there job?
Searching people who don't need to be searched isn't doing there jobs. First of all, I understand being searched coming back into the country. I don't
understand being searched leaving the country.
The guns beings shipped across the border aren't being done in a 4 placed airplane with 4 people loaded in it going on vacation with no criminal
background.
For you pilots, Jack with the BBP is keeping records and is our liason in writing formal letters to Congressman so please make sure your harassment is
being reported to Jack.
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute.
— George Bernard Shaw
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LancairDriver
Super Nomad
Posts: 1587
Registered: 2-22-2008
Location: On the Road
Member Is Offline
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"They can search my car, my bags, my airline bag, etc. No problem. A delay is not a big deal if the result is safer travel".
"Anyone who would give up freedom for a little safety deserves neither" Ben Franklin's words.
Thank God our founding fathers were made of stronger stuff and this attitude didn't prevail during the American Revolution. We would all be eating
kidney pie and drinking tea and singing God Save the Queen today. These people were called "loyalists" back then.
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3455
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
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Guns and Money
The Officers are looking for weapons, drugs, and money. One Million Dollars will fit in a medium size suitcase and weigh 9 kilos/20 pounds.
It makes sense to search aircraft entering and leaving the US. Pilots have nothing to fear if they're not guilty of smuggling.
Consider the inconvenience as being similar to driving across a Border. Not a big deal.
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by LancairDriver
"They can search my car, my bags, my airline bag, etc. No problem. A delay is not a big deal if the result is safer travel".
"Anyone who would give up freedom for a little safety deserves neither" Ben Franklin's words.
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And too many people were asleep when they passed the Patriot Acts---increase power, give up freedoms.
Seems that people still ignore the major loss of liberty and freedom until it affects them personally.
But then again, the crossing of borders has not fallen under the 4th amendment, so it seems from many court cases.
[Edited on 7-7-2009 by jdtrotter]
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4410
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Lee
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
They arn't bothered by "feeling stupid." Their motivation is feeling powerful. |
Power comes with the job. There isn't a sinister plot to harass people here. These guys are doing their jobs -- and aggressive police work is
often rewarded. Kinda a quota system. More arrests, more promotion.
If you are not guilty, you have nothing to fear. They're from the Government. They're here to help.
They need to be professional. They don't need to be nice. If they were unprofessional, report them. |
| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
The original poster said
"Like most other citizens, I would not like to see another 9-11 but I do not want our US govt to violate our basic freedoms in the name of "security".
Violation? Are you thinking that it was an illegal search?
Also, the search probably wasn't a result of 9-11, more likely the result of American drug users buying drugs from the Mexican traffickers.
Not the war on terrorism, the war on drugs. |
Lee and K-Rico make absurd assertions.
Weapons and drug shipments are among the greatest economies of the USA, both those sanctioned and black market. The numbers from munitions and drug
sales are so huge it would boggle your mind and are known to make up the great majority of our economy. In addition, profitability from criminal
prosecution make up another huge economy as police nd prison populations are in themselves profitable economies.
Weapons and drug smuggling are not operations run by packed-full 4 person small aviation flights? Obviously, to suggest that individuals such as these
pilots, who have no means, motive nor demonstrable benefit, are the focus is an absurd theatrical and false assertion that few would consider nor
believe except perhaps child-like thinkers. Certainly no sincere person would believe that these pilots are the purveyors of the worlds greatest
economy? It makes no sense either physically or economically.
It seems those here that do promote unlawful harassment such as K-Rico and Lee are certainly not sincerely interested in reducing weapons and drug
shipments and their interests belie their commentary.
If one were interested in who is shipping or smuggling weapons or drugs you can read it in the paper nearly everyday. We are talking about such a huge
amount of material and money, it can not be hidden.
But of course, if I were to mention specific articles that note USA led and sanctioned drug and weapons smuggling admitted by the top administrators,
then Dennis and Cypress would cry their grand tears of denial, suggesting we forgo any rational discussion for meds-har-har-har. Or of course SKEET
would add that if it is written in the paper or the internet then it is certainly false as well.
Note no contraband was found on any of these idiotic excercises to intimidate and harass the pilots while tons have been found on CIA flights which
crashed or were otherwise detoured and discovered. Not to mention the well-known and publicized Iran-Contra case, among a long list of others whose
purveyors are still in office, apparently running the same operation.
Can we all do a Ronny Reagan imitation and say "Well, I didn't know."
The munitions and drugs smuggling is a multi-trillion dollar industry not the business of tourists on small flights.
Does anyone here honestly believe that this is a sincere desire or effort to halt munitions or drug smuggling? If it was wouldn't it be actually
leading to discovery of actual illegal smuggling gangs?
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering what is next???
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We are being searched before we enter Baja by order of BHO.
He ordered it as a promise to Calderon.
Do you consider pilots different from the rest of us.
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4410
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Lee
The Officers are looking for weapons, drugs, and money. One Million Dollars will fit in a medium size suitcase and weigh 9 kilos/20 pounds.
It makes sense to search aircraft entering and leaving the US. Pilots have nothing to fear if they're not guilty of smuggling.
Consider the inconvenience as being similar to driving across a Border. Not a big deal. |
Look at this post and consider what it means when you read between the lines.
1) Lee is a promoter of unlawful search and seizure of clearly innocent tourists?
2) Lee quotes his knowledge and experience with the exact weight of a million dollars?
Weird.
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