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Author: Subject: Stop Feeding the Trolls
oxxo
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 03:21 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by arrowheadOn the other hand, if a person honestly states his personal convictions -whether liberal or conservative, or even maniacal for some of the posters here -- that is not trolling. Many people here are just using the word "troll" to label anyone they do not agree with. That is disingenuous.


Really? I was just using the definition I am most familar with from Wikipedia:

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

So I guess it depends on your definition as to who is being disingenuous.

[Edited on 7-9-2009 by oxxo]
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 03:34 PM


As Oxxo notes, according to the almost unassailable source Wikipedia, a troll is defined as follows:

"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion."

Here's more from that entry, for some context:

"The contemporary use of the term is alleged to have first appeared on the internet in the late 1980s, but the earliest known example is from 1991. It is thought to be a truncation of the phrase trolling for suckers, itself derived from the fishing technique of slowly dragging a bait through water, known as trolling. The word also evokes the trolls portrayed in Scandinavian folklore and children's tales as they are often obnoxious creatures bent on mischief and wickedness. The verb "troll" originates from Old French "troller", a hunting term. The noun "troll", however, is an unrelated Old Norse word for a giant or demon.

The most likely derivation of the word troll can be found in the phrase "trolling for newbies," popularized in the early 1990s in the Usenet group, alt.folklore.urban (AFU). Commonly, what is meant is a relatively gentle inside joke by veteran users, presenting questions or topics that had been so overdone that only a new user would respond to them earnestly. For example, a veteran of the group might make a post on the common misconception that glass flows over time. Long-time readers would both recognize the poster's name and know that the topic had been done to death already, but new subscribers to the group would not realise, and would thus respond. These types of trolls served as a Shibboleth to identify group insiders. This definition of trolling, considerably narrower than the modern understanding of the term, was considered a positive contribution. One of the most notorious AFU trollers, Snopes, went on to create his eponymous urban folklore website.

By the late 1990s, alt.folklore.urban had such heavy traffic and participation that trolling of this sort was frowned upon. Others expanded the term to include the practice of playing a seriously misinformed or deluded user, even in newsgroups where one was not a regular; these were often attempts at humor rather than provocation. In such contexts, the noun troll usually referred to an act of trolling, rather than to the author."

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

We all know what "controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant, or off-topic" means. The more difficult element of the troll to nail down is whether it is posted "with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion." That sort of intent is hard to gauge with a new (or faux-new) user, based on just a handful of posts. But when someone who has made many "controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant, or off-topic" comments here and has been repeatedly been asked to cool it keeps doing it, one can reasonably infer several things:

1. Their primary intent is to provoke other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion;

2. They are completely self-absorbed and despite paying lip service to having a "dialogue" don't really give a s**t what anyone else thinks;

3. They are narcissists who long to be the center of attention, whether it's positive or negative, and have found the perfect vehicle to get them there; or

4. All of the above.

Hey, it's not like that shoe would fit anyone around here.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Edited on 7-9-2009 by DanO]




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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 04:34 PM
"controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant, or off-topic"


There are a number of nomads who think the board is boring and not worth visiting without "controversial and inflammatory" posts. And to some degree I see their point.

It's like those after school fights we had in junior high. They were great entertainment. In fact, the crowds got so big that sometimes you couldn't even see what was going on. Me, I was a big chicken. I was afraid they'd turn around and come after me instead.

So that's the fun of it, I guess: a rumble.
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 04:45 PM


Skipjack, you nailed it ..... Junior High entertainment.



No worries
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 06:03 PM
Intent, tone and style


usually determines whether the other person will accept the interchange as a welcome debate.

In an online forum most of us use an avatar. Many of us will reveal our names and where we live.

There are a very few who hide behind their avatars as cowards and flame away with insults. Their agenda is to "troll" until they get an adverse response. Their bait is ugly and it is offensive to most people. It is difficult to ignore them. I have taken the bait on occasion. My attitude is "I can't let them get away with that". It usually contains inflammatory statements that are generally regarded as anti-social. They are Sociopaths and they delight in upsetting people. When someone takes the bait, then they become the target of personal insults. These few violate the rules of the forum administrators and eventually get banned. They they reappear under the guise of a newby with a completely different avatar.

This forum is an enterprise that is set up by an individual (Doug). He has the right to set the rules. To administrate the rules is a difficult job. It involves striking a balance between tolerance and outright rejection of a violator. I hate censorship! I wouldn't like to have to determine what should be censored. Those who eventually get banned establish a pattern of abuse. Often their writing styles are recognizable. They have been here before.

Hot buttons in discussions: politics and religion. Attitudes about politics and religion are formed from early childhood and get validated, tolerated or rejected by life's experience. Proponents of one attitude or another range from people who try to avoid conflict, to moderates to fanatical ideologues.

As citizens of The United States, we are protected by the First Amendment when it comes to "Free Speech". That Right does carry responsibilities; you can't yell fire in a theater as a joke. You can't use hate to inflame other like-minded people to commit crimes. And
it doesn't apply to a forum where the owner gets to make the rules.
People like David K. or Dennis are not Trolls in my opinion. They may be driven by their own demons, but I would draw your attention to my first sentence; " Intent, tone and style usually determines whether the other person will accept the interchange as a welcome debate." I believe that, to some, their tone and or style can be abrasive, but I don't think their intent is malicious.

I don't want to single them out exclusively. I am just using them because they have been discussed in the context of Trolls. They have a lot to offer in this forum and I enjoy their posts, for the most part. Criticism probably won't work. I and others have tried (with David K). I have given up trying to get him to understand why and how his political interjections are unnecessary and unwanted. Now I just ignore those comments and take from him what information I can use. Dennis...he still be cool in my opinion.:D

In conclusion, we Nomads have a lot of similarities; mostly our affinity for Baja. We are all unique individuals and have different levels of tolerance, education and manner. Most of us belong here in spite of our wide levels of differences.:light:




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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 06:11 PM


Well done, oh musical one!
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 06:23 PM


I don't think so. Tony, you are beginning to sound like the "little professor", Gnukiddy, who is intent on summerizing and recapping to us little people, who need that, to understand the language, the matrix of the forum. We get it. We really do. You do not have to give us the history of how this forum works or explain how you see its intricacies. Do you really think that after the gazillion opinions expressed and ill-expressed across the spectrum of this almost unlimited gabfest, we need to know about how you feel we should feel about intent, tone, style or presentation? You might by our GNUOLDKID.
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 06:33 PM
We're gonna have a rumble, tonight ...




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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 06:42 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by toneart
usually determines whether the other person will accept the interchange as a welcome debate.

In an online forum most of us use an avatar. Many of us will reveal our names and where we live.

There are a very few who hide behind their avatars as cowards and flame away with insults. Their agenda is to "troll" until they get an adverse response. Their bait is ugly and it is offensive to most people. It is difficult to ignore them. I have taken the bait on occasion. My attitude is "I can't let them get away with that". It usually contains inflammatory statements that are generally regarded as anti-social. They are Sociopaths and they delight in upsetting people. When someone takes the bait, then they become the target of personal insults. These few violate the rules of the forum administrators and eventually get banned. They they reappear under the guise of a newby with a completely different avatar.

This forum is an enterprise that is set up by an individual (Doug). He has the right to set the rules. To administrate the rules is a difficult job. It involves striking a balance between tolerance and outright rejection of a violator. I hate censorship! I wouldn't like to have to determine what should be censored. Those who eventually get banned establish a pattern of abuse. Often their writing styles are recognizable. They have been here before.

Hot buttons in discussions: politics and religion. Attitudes about politics and religion are formed from early childhood and get validated, tolerated or rejected by life's experience. Proponents of one attitude or another range from people who try to avoid conflict, to moderates to fanatical ideologues.

As citizens of The United States, we are protected by the First Amendment when it comes to "Free Speech". That Right does carry responsibilities; you can't yell fire in a theater as a joke. You can't use hate to inflame other like-minded people to commit crimes. And
it doesn't apply to a forum where the owner gets to make the rules.
People like David K. or Dennis are not Trolls in my opinion. They may be driven by their own demons, but I would draw your attention to my first sentence; " Intent, tone and style usually determines whether the other person will accept the interchange as a welcome debate." I believe that, to some, their tone and or style can be abrasive, but I don't think their intent is malicious.

I don't want to single them out exclusively. I am just using them because they have been discussed in the context of Trolls. They have a lot to offer in this forum and I enjoy their posts, for the most part. Criticism probably won't work. I and others have tried (with David K). I have given up trying to get him to understand why and how his political interjections are unnecessary and unwanted. Now I just ignore those comments and take from him what information I can use. Dennis...he still be cool in my opinion.:D

In conclusion, we Nomads have a lot of similarities; mostly our affinity for Baja. We are all unique individuals and have different levels of tolerance, education and manner. Most of us belong here in spite of our wide levels of differences.:light:


Art, sorry but you missed one bit of fact with this little remark about how you and others have tried to 're-educate' me:

"I and others have tried (with David K). I have given up trying to get him to understand why and how his political interjections are unnecessary and unwanted."

The missing fact is: my 'political comments' are ALWAYS in response to somebody who posted some socialist/ leftist/ liberal or anti American propaganda... I offered ANOTHER point of view, that's all.

Keep the leftist politics off Nomad, and those of us who value freedom will have no reason to post our views, for balance. You don't like conservative, traditional American values? Then don't post your big government/ less freedom stuff. Otherwise, don't get cranky over some equal time from us.

Why are the lefties so fearful of other opinions, so people can make an intelligent decision??? The 'fairness doctrain' is just an example of how they want to shut down the conservative talk radio programs... that are already in balance to all the pro-Obama media (ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, CNN, PBS, New York Times, etc. etc.)... They want it all and the ending of free speech is what they seek.

I don't believe in what you say, but I will defend your RIGHT to speak it... THAT SIR, is the American way!:biggrin:




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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 07:01 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by David K
I don't believe in what you say, but I will defend your RIGHT to speak it... THAT SIR, is the American way!:biggrin:


Yes, Yes, David!! More, more.

You're feeling it now.

Tell them about Rush Limbaugh. I love that part. I always look forward to it.

Can't you just feel the electricity?!

It's gonna be goood.
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 07:09 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by David K

The missing fact is: my 'political comments' are ALWAYS in response to somebody who posted some socialist/ leftist/ liberal or anti American propaganda... I offered ANOTHER point of view, that's all.

Keep the leftist politics off Nomad, and those of us who value freedom will have no reason to post our views, for balance. You don't like conservative, traditional American values? Then don't post your big government/ less freedom stuff. Otherwise, don't get cranky over some equal time from us.

Why are the lefties so fearful of other opinions, so people can make an intelligent decision??? The 'fairness doctrain' is just an example of how they want to shut down the conservative talk radio programs... that are already in balance to all the pro-Obama media (ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, CNN, PBS, New York Times, etc. etc.)... They want it all and the ending of free speech is what they seek.



Wow!! David K at his best. Amazing.


[Edited on 7-10-2009 by k-rico]
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 07:13 PM


The entertainment factor sure hasn't changed.
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 07:34 PM


It would make things much easier if we could get past the definitions of trolls and just have Doug identify who the offending parties are. Hey, maybe I am one. I honestly dont know.

I mean, the thread on not feeding the trolls is digressing into something that looks a lot like the usual Nomad thread of late.

Reminds me of the California Legislature. Lots of verbage but no action.


How bout a poll?????????????

[Edited on 7-10-2009 by Hook]




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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 07:45 PM


After reading all this crap and trying to figure it all out...
I think I'm guilty

Hi....my name is Timo and I think I might be a troll
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 08:03 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Art, sorry but you missed one bit of fact with this little remark about how you and others have tried to 're-educate' me:

"I and others have tried (with David K). I have given up trying to get him to understand why and how his political interjections are unnecessary and unwanted."

The missing fact is: my 'political comments' are ALWAYS in response to somebody who posted some socialist/ leftist/ liberal or anti American propaganda... I offered ANOTHER point of view, that's all.

Keep the leftist politics off Nomad, and those of us who value freedom will have no reason to post our views, for balance. You don't like conservative, traditional American values? Then don't post your big government/ less freedom stuff. Otherwise, don't get cranky over some equal time from us.

Why are the lefties so fearful of other opinions, so people can make an intelligent decision??? The 'fairness doctrain' is just an example of how they want to shut down the conservative talk radio programs... that are already in balance to all the pro-Obama media (ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, CNN, PBS, New York Times, etc. etc.)... They want it all and the ending of free speech is what they seek.


You go, girl!! :bounce::bounce:
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 08:47 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Osprey
I don't think so. Tony, you are beginning to sound like the "little professor", Gnukiddy, who is intent on summerizing and recapping to us little people, who need that, to understand the language, the matrix of the forum. We get it. We really do. You do not have to give us the history of how this forum works or explain how you see its intricacies. Do you really think that after the gazillion opinions expressed and ill-expressed across the spectrum of this almost unlimited gabfest, we need to know about how you feel we should feel about intent, tone, style or presentation? You might by our GNUOLDKID.


That's fine, Osprey. My perspective is what I have to offer. You don't have to agree. It is not my intention to speak down to you. If you think you speak for everyone on the forum go ahead and tell us how your opinion is superior, which is what I think you just did.:yawn:
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 09:45 PM


i want mommy



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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 10:05 PM


Harry Truman said it best. "If you can't handel the heat, jump into a box of cold Pacifico."
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[*] posted on 7-10-2009 at 05:58 AM
Did someone call for a Troll?






On June 8, 2013, Jihad Jay Salman of Temple City California invited Elinvestig8r over for coffee, but in the end, Jihad Salman was too frightened to open his front door. Elinvestig8r went over to get an apology from Jihad Salman after he put Elinvestig8r’s Peace Officer son in danger by revealing his name address and telephone number. On January 5, 2016, Jihad Jay Ezzeddine Salman of Temple City California was again too frightened open his front door after inviting Elinvestig8r for coffee. Prior to the visit Jihad Salman told Elinvestig8r to come at his own risk because he was armed. Facing extreme danger, Elinvestig8r went over to see Jihad Salman in the pouring rain to meet him for coffee and ask for an apology for putting Elinvestig8r’s Peace Officer son in danger. It is obvious Jihad Jay Ezzeddine Salman of Temple City California is too frightened of Elinvestig8r and will never meet with him for coffee to apologize for putting his Peace Officer son in danger by revealing his name address and telephone number!
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[*] posted on 7-10-2009 at 10:16 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by Hook
Reminds me of the California Legislature. Lots of verbage but no action.


Well put.




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