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Cardon Man
Super Nomad
Posts: 1319
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Thetis Bank
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Mood: !Al Chingaso!
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Shocking illegal dorado fishing documentary, Must See.
All Nomads should see this documentary...
Oro Del Cortez
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bajajudy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6886
Registered: 10-4-2004
Location: San Jose del Cabo,BCS
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Thanks
I have forwarded this link to all my fishing buddies
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Cardon Man
Super Nomad
Posts: 1319
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Thetis Bank
Member Is Offline
Mood: !Al Chingaso!
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Good work Judy... It will horrify anyone that cares about the Sea of Cortez.
Kudos to Minerva Saenz of Minervas tackle, whom I'm told was behind this documentary.
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Oggie
Nomad
Posts: 312
Registered: 6-16-2009
Location: Carlsbad, CA/BOLA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Missing Baja
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Wow
Very interesting!!
A man never stands as tall as when he kneels to help a child.
Knights of Pythagoras
Funny how falling feels like flying
for a little while - Bad Blake
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Judy: I appreciate your posting: But this is not a
documentary" , it is a good film very narrow in its use of "Facts"
The one thing that stands out is the Failure to mention the last year and a Half of the Millions of Bait, the Hundreds of Thusands of Dorado and
Yellowtail that have increased from the decline in the past 10 years.
All of the truth must be told for anyone to make a value judgment.
I lived , Fished and worked on the Sea of Cortez for 38 years, IT IS NOT RUINED AND WILL NOT BE RUINED
I would suggest that you and one other person, hire a local Pangero and travel the Sea of Cotrez for one year from La Paz North to the Bay of Los
Angeles, take pictures talk to the locals. Just record that which you observe and then come back and do a Report.
We have enough SPAM, all is necessary is the TRUTH!
Skeet/Loreto
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9006
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
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Mood: Inquisitive
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The producers really did a pretty good job of identifying the problem (Conapesca). I can't say this is surprising, though.
Did that Conapesca official REALLY suggest that dorado aquaculture is an option? I can't imagine that.
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Cardon Man
Super Nomad
Posts: 1319
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Thetis Bank
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Mood: !Al Chingaso!
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Skeet...why is it that every Mexican fisherman i know, commercial and sport alike, all agree and lament that this fishery has declined in a big way
over the last few decades? I know men that worked at Rancho Buena Vista back in the 60's... all of them to a man recount the old days with a tear in
their eye. The massive numbers and variety of fish have dwindled to a mere percentage of historical abundance.
But hey...you say everything is fine. Maybe all those fishermen and their decades of experience are confused and blinded by enviro-propaganda?
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9006
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
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Mood: Inquisitive
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
The one thing that stands out is the Failure to mention the last year and a Half of the Millions of Bait, the Hundreds of Thusands of Dorado and
Yellowtail that have increased from the decline in the past 10 years.
All of the truth must be told for anyone to make a value judgment.
I lived , Fished and worked on the Sea of Cortez for 38 years, IT IS NOT RUINED AND WILL NOT BE RUINED
Skeet/Loreto |
Where is the empirical evidence to support your contention, Skeet?
Another faith-based contention??????? 
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Cardon Man
Super Nomad
Posts: 1319
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Thetis Bank
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Mood: !Al Chingaso!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
.Did that Conapesca official REALLY suggest that dorado aquaculture is an option? I can't imagine that. |
I don't by that for a second. Aquaculture is not an option.
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Yes Cardon Man: there has been declines and Rises in the past 40 years, but in talking to the folks at Buena did you have them compare the number of
Sport Fisherman at the time??
The number of Sport Fisherman have declined 85 %.
And yes there are ups and downs like this last one when they took so many Squid, but as of a year ago this April there has been a veryLARGE increase
in the number of Bait and Fish .
I have personally been on the water and seen this, I have personally talked to the Fisheman.
Also as a side note did you see the Worldwide report on the increase in Halibut and Cod???
Wonder why no one posted that information on this site.??
Hook, just read The Log of the Sea of Cortez, and Jaques Costonauo{SP}
The shuting off of the Colo. River did not Ruin the Sea
The massive over fishing of the north end took away most of the Shrimp __In that immediate Area___. Take a look at the massive Shrimp at 1500 Feet off
of Loreto. Shrimpers where stopped-Shrimp are there.
Same with the Squid, it cause a decline but did not take them all away as a result the fishiong is Fantastic even on the Pacfic.
Wake up you People!!
Skeet
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Russ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6741
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
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Skeet, We've all read your point of view on this subject.... many times. You are, of course, entitled to your point of view. But every time you
suggest that people with an opposite point of view get out on the water and see for themselves how great the fishery is you seem to not take into
consideration that many of us live and fish down here now and in the past. Some fish/guide for a living. And I haven't read any articles you've
submitted. I have read some articles from the commercial side against Shark Norma changes and they have a well presented side too. I'm really glad
your resent fishing trips keep your opinions on the rosy side. I'd just like to here my Mexican acquaintances express your point of view. Also the
sport fishing tourist and those of us fortunate enough to live here. Although you may be in the minority of posters that believe the fisheries are
healthy, it's refreshing to read such positive commentaries.
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
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Cardon Man
Super Nomad
Posts: 1319
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Thetis Bank
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Mood: !Al Chingaso!
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On the subject of over fishing....
Take a look at the trailer for the movie "The End of Line", it's flat out frightening.
The end of the line
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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O>K>
Just take a look at the Pacific ocean with all of its Fish.
There would have to be no Fish in the entire Pacific to swim up the Worlds Fishtrap!!The Sea of Cortez!
As far a sports Fisherman from what I could see on my last trip there was an adbundance of fancy Electronic Fish Spotters on thy Boats.
Could it be that the Sports Fisherman are not finding the Fish.??
Why all of the many, many good reports with Photos of the Fish?.
The Commercials came back in larger numbers this year for One Reason ::There were more fish to be caught.!!
Anyway, I have and will contuine to defend the Sea Of Cortez.
Skeet/Loreto
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9006
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
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Mood: Inquisitive
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Gentlemen, this is pointless. He's entitled to his groundless opinion. We can only take heart that, outside of the monied interests surrounding this
fishery, it is an infinitesimally small minority opinion.
I guess what astounds me the most is that Skeet seems to be ignoring his own advice. There are accounts by SEVERAL fishermen in the documentary that
all contend the fishery is in severe decline. Yet he would have us hire pangas all over again, as if the results MUST be different this time around.
Russ also makes a good point. WE FISHERMEN ARE A SOURCE OF ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE OF THE DECLINE. We remember what it used to be like as recently as the
late 90s.
Instead, Skeet would have us believe that we were wizards at finding them back then, but have somehow, as a whole, lost our ability to FIND them. 
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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No Hook; You are reading it wrong then putting your own turn on things.
If as you say fishing is in a Serious decline, Why all the fish? Why the increase of Commercial Fishing??
Hire the Pangas to go and observe the fish and their habits and their Numbers. Do it Day and night, take pictures etc.
No we were not Wizards but at that ime we used our "Senses" rather than a Machine to observe the fish and how they act.
Andsince you brought it up us ole timers have seen the rise and fall but NO SEVERE DECLINE of the fish starting with the taking of so many sharks in
the late 40"s
Sure there was a SEVERE DECLINE in the Squid Population in the last few years which had its effect .
Now the fish are back in Large numbers.
Why do you avoie this Fact. Go to Las Naaimas, Isla San Jose, Sta Catlana, and North.
Don"t set on your duff and take other non Experienced people's word. They probably read the terrible Scato Bee Story. Which was as False as it gets.
Skeet
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taoswheat
Junior Nomad
Posts: 73
Registered: 11-29-2007
Location: Taos, NM USA
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I live in Taos, NM and kayak fish from San Carlos as often as I can. I certainly am not very experienced on the Sea of Cortes, but I can observe.
Last year in July, I was on a pre-tournament fishing day on a charter boat and we trolled about 35 miles out and a total of 93 miles travel by GPS and
caught 1 Dorado. This is not my idea of a healthy fishery. During the day, we passed two multi-mile longlines with a number of Tortuga and Dorado
hooked.
The video was done by Vince Radice, who has mucho Sea of Cortes experience sailing, diving, and running a water based business in San Carlos for many
years. He is obviously very concerned about the Sea of Cortes and his concern raises a flag for me. For those living on the Sea, I think a measured
level of concern would be healthy.
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Russ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6741
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
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"Don"t set on your duff and take other non Experienced people's word."
Skeet you're impossible. You won't listen to the "Experienced" words of any one other than your self. Trying to discus this subject with you is
hurting my head. It is time YOU put out something other than your opinion and you unlimited knowledge. I won't read/argue this any longer with you.
click
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
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Russ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6741
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
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Speaking of illegal fisheries.....
Just snapped this about 15 minutes ago He's already half way into the mouth of Conception. If he make a good set there will be 10 more like him by
morning and the patrol boat won't show until they gone.
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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O. K> Russ. Your Choice of Course.
After all the Beautifull years on the Sea of Cortez withsome great Mexican Fisermen I cannot ever see how the Sea of Cortez can be ruined.
Starting from my first day of fishing of Course there have been changes,sometimes less fish, sometimes more fish. so many different things that cause
these declines. Removable of all the sharks nearly 1948.
Taking most of the Shrimp out of San Felipe.
Allowing the Japanese boats to come up and fish.
Long lining off of the Entrance.
Taking out too many Squid at one time.
It just is offensive to see some of these people making such outlandish statements to find that they have never been on the /Sea of Cortez. I guess
they learned it from a Proffessor at college who read it in a Book.
Taoswheat; There have been many days that I have been on the Sea and never caught a fish, starting in 1967. The fish move, they bite at different
times, that can change in short order depending on Tide, Wind, Bait etc.
Just like it has Changed at Taos where I and my brother killed rabbits at night and sold them to the Publeo Indians for $.25 cents each and in the day
time worked in the Woods logging out Tres Rios and hauling the logs to Roswell.
Several months ago I went fishing out of Mulege and saw many fish I could not belive it!! It was like it was 20 years ago with million of bait,
yellowtail on top of the water, even Schools of Amberjack up on top.
If you check out the different sites including some of the sailboaters they have reported lots of fish.
Skeet/Loreto
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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Skeet, I love you man and consider you to be one of my favorite cantakerous old men, but you have missed the point entirely about the fish population
of the Sea of Cortez. Except for this year, because of some other responsibilities, I have fished the Sea of Cortez more than the average bear since
the late 1950's. I, like you, have spent countless hours with the native pangueros, I have eaten, traveled with, and lived along side these people
who are on the water everyday trying to eke out a living. Since retiring a few years ago, I managed to fish over 200 days a year for all of the fish
who inhabit the Sea of Cortez, so even though I am humble and don't think I am the best fisherman in the Sea of Cortez, I do humbly consider myself in
the top 20 at least and can unequivocaly tell you that the fish stocks are declining. The fact that I can catch as many fish as I do only happens
because I work a lot harder at the whole situation that I had to years ago. So don't do yourself a disservice and assume that because you saw a big
school of yellowtail or dorado that the stocks are the same as they were even 10 years ago. We could try to make the same case for Totuava because
they now manage to catch a few on some of the mother ships from San Felipe but for the most part they have been overfished and show very little
recovery in the last 25 years.
Now I do agree, that the lefties and environmental wackos have oversold this whole idea in order to get you to send your money in and join in their
feel-good orginizations that have very little if any effect on what really goes on. I can name on one hand the number of conservation orginizations
that actually seem to be doing anything at all for their membership, so we probably stand together in this on the same side of the street, but your
inability to clearly see that we do have a problem on our hands is disturbing to me because you normally have a clear sense of vision and foresight on
so many other topics. I have no problem with the people who assume they are doing something supporting the loonies like Greenpeace and the others,
but hopefully they will try to evaluate over a period of time what has actually occurred and happened instead of getting emotionally worked up over
some chestbeating and cheap video shots.
But Skeet, with all due respect, it is time that you realize there are some serious problems with the fish populations in the Sea of Cortez and if
your Grandchildren hope to catch a dorado like you had the good fortune to do, you need to take off the blinders and really look.
Finally, I do think that the Sea of Cortez is a magnificent area and with a minimum of intervention, the fish do have a chance.
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