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ELINVESTIG8R
Select Nomad
Posts: 15882
Registered: 11-20-2007
Location: Southern California
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MY LOW IMPACT CRAPPER WAS HERE
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by KAT54
You guys need to read the original post.
Three weeks two people in five gallon buckets.
Let us say three days for a bucket.
That is seven buckets or 35 gallons.
That is alot of human waste to bury.
Now, total all the visitors that winter in baja.
Low impact, I think not. |
I still question your assumptions and conclusions here---------when 4 of us canoed the Green River (Green River, Ut to the confluence with the
Colorado River) we were "on the river" for 10 total days. We had one (1) 5 gal. bucket for our adventure and it easily contained the human-waste for
the entire trip (10 days x 4 adults)----and yes, we took it with us (as required by the BLM/NPS) on the jet-boat pickup back to Moab, Ut. and disposed
of the contents in an "approved" dump-site---no problem. We also hauled out ALL our trash, which was no small task being in two 17 foot canoes.
I think that Ron's idea is a good one, and fills the bill, so to speak.
When you make things so difficult to comply with, and possibly unreasonable, people naturally don't comply. I would much rather simplify things, and
gain some compliance--------I think that Ron's ideas are workable, admirable, and I am very glad he posted this Thread.
Tho it is slowly being changed and improved, many back country sites within the USA National Park System (etc.) have the old-type pit toilets where
litterally thousands of gallons of untreated sewage is deposited directly into the ground each year (no "vaults")----------not good, but it worked for
years, especially in a desert environment out of water-courses.
I won't go into the math of animals depositing their affluent on the ground------it would stagger one's imagination!!!!
I believe that you are exagerating the problem, and thereby inviting non-compliance, tho I am positive you mean well.
Barry
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17279
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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More importantly, when in hotel pools, how many Nomads pee in the pool vs getting out to pee in the facilities?
I already know that all of you pee when swimming in ocean.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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Good God, Goat--------I have NEVER done that!!!!! GROSS!!!!!!
-------what ARE you thinking?????? 
Barry
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Ron_Perry
Junior Nomad
Posts: 75
Registered: 9-21-2005
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Mood: yearning for baja
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Hi again, thanks for the comments, pro and con.
A few items I forgot. One is I usually buy two 5 gallon water bottles that are sold at most small markets, along with a pump made for these
bottles. Maybe two one gallon water jugs with screw type lids for the ride down. Refill the gallon jugs for a quick rinse after surfing, or a quick
shower. This beats several small plastic container for a trip.
I also use a 5 gallon propane bottle to cook with, and for light at night. I use a stove and small grill for fish. The small propane bottles I
don't think are recyclable.
About the burying of waste. Are there any waste disposal sites in Baja? As in most parks, and marinas in the U.S.? I cannot remember seeing any in
Baja.
I would guess that for two people in three weeks, the waste would add up to about 18 gallons. The idea of dumping waste at a Pemex sounds like an
idea, but are the waste treatment plants in Baja sufficient? The river draining into the lagoon at San Jose del Cabo always smell...questionable.
I am not sure the what the exact right answer is, but my feeling is that completely burying waste at an isolated site may be a good solution,
compared to using the campground site. Thanks again for the comments, Ron
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Curt63
Super Nomad
Posts: 1171
Registered: 3-28-2009
Location: San Diego, Ca.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Fish tacos and Tecate
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The small propane cylinders are refillable at a cost of about 40 cents. Harbor Freight sells the little gizmo that attaches to a 5 Gal. Propane tank.
Works like a charm, but some leak.
No worries
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irenemm
Senior Nomad
Posts: 623
Registered: 7-16-2009
Location: vicente guerrero, baja
Member Is Offline
Mood: relaxed
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do you know what the honey trucks do with the waste that they take out of septic tanks all over baja?
guess what they take it to the dump and just dump it. tell me where they have the waste plants here in baja.
when they clean out septic we have 4 they have taken the waste to the city dump.
no waste stations at least from Ensenada until maybe the next state baja sur somewhere in cabo? Maybe
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Paulina
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3810
Registered: 8-31-2002
Location: BCN
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In days of old
When knights were bold
And toilets weren't invented,
They left their load
Along the road
And walked off so contented.
A childhood ditty; author unknown
Taken from the book I mentioned above;
"The ocean is quite capable of breaking down a few turds....specially safe when tossed into a moving, deep water column of water of 12 feet or
more....it's only sensible to stay away from small bays, harbors and beaches where sludge might wash ashore before breaking up..."
It can be done.
P<*)))>{
\"Well behaved women rarely make history.\" Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
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Crusoe
Senior Nomad
Posts: 731
Registered: 10-14-2006
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Another approach that works well.....During the 1960's when we use to run alot of the big rivers in the West ( before permits were required) there was
no control over the pooping scene and what would happen to the human waste. Many of the nice desert beaches and overnight spots were getting slammed
hard! We instructors at the Colorado Outward Bound School used a method for #2 waste that turnred out to be very successful.... We hauled alot of old
newspapers, in a support raft, and everyone was required to crap on top of it and roll it up and fold it and deposit it in an old steel millitary
surplus amo box, that the lid coud be dogged down and was water proof. As well, folks were required to burn their toilet paper on the spot. It takes
20 years for paper to decpmpose in a desert atmosphere. At the end of each trip everyone helped dumping the rotten cargo into huge pile near a
determined dump site. A couple of gallons of diesel was poured on and then torched. Things were raked up and then mixxed with a couple of bags of
compost soil. We have used this system in Baja alot also. Nowdays campers need to get creative. There is just to many of us. ++C++  :
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vgabndo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3461
Registered: 12-8-2003
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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Crusoe I think you have the right ideas. Perhaps I'm spoiled, but I just never find it necessary to camp ANYWHERE that is so over-run with humans that
their waste becomes a problem. I wouldn't call that camping. I cannot think of a time I have left a deposit in Baja that I had the slightest worry
that that organic material was ever going to be a problem for another person or the environment.
Now if you want to get me fired-up...lets talk abut the slack mouthed, watery-eyed, empty headed marooons who throw their bottles of urine all along
the sides of I-5 up here!
[Edited on 8-23-2009 by vgabndo]
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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Packoderm
Super Nomad
Posts: 2116
Registered: 11-7-2002
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Perhaps the only thing that will work to this guy's satisfaction would be to place each deposit of feces (along with the one square of biodegradable
toilet paper) into reusable receptacles, bring it all back across the border, and then add the contents to a special purpose compost pile of which
contents would be later used as a soil supplement for garden plants of the non-consumption variety. If you really want to get into it, you could
install a marine type Electro-San waste processing unit in your truck or van, but that uses electricity and salt water which is irresponsible. Perhaps
some outdoor adventure outfitting store might sell some specially designed food that will lower your daily feces output to an easily manageable one
small pellet per day. Perhaps it would benefit to use a special feces collection unit that effectively seals the buttocks surface area from the
atmosphere and run the resulting gasses through a special filter unit of which cartridges cost $49.99 apiece. This may all be the responsible thing to
do, but it would seem that your entire day would be dedicated to personal sewage containment leaving little time for hiking and other activities.
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15937
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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Mood: Everchangin'
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and what about the poor coyotes? if nobody craps in a hole anymore, the scraggly critters will actually have to work for their dinner!
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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What do fish do in the ocean?
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
What do fish do in the ocean? |
Undoubtably the same thing as MtGoat does (ohhhhh, that is a cheap
shot-----sorry MtGoat)
Barry
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Crusoe
Senior Nomad
Posts: 731
Registered: 10-14-2006
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In many of the sensitive areas(above timberline and at pristine and over- run alpine lakes) in the Natl. Parks, the Park Service, contracts out with a
helicopter operator to haul out full 250lb. plastic containers full of poop from high country outhouses.They fly in an empty and it is exchanged by
the back country rangers. There is one very close to the summit of the Grand Teton and boy does it stink. And here in Olympic Natl. Park they have a
few as well. All is good until they lose a fully loaded one. This actually happened 2 years ago as the heli was taking off. He got about 150ft. up and
his line let go and down came the Sh}T Bomb!!! Almost burrying the poor rangers. There was crap everywhere!! Took them weeks to clean it up.
Yikes... ++C++
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Crusoe
In many of the sensitive areas(above timberline and at pristine and over- run alpine lakes) in the Natl. Parks, the Park Service, contracts out with a
helicopter operator to haul out full 250lb. plastic containers full of poop from high country outhouses.They fly in an empty and it is exchanged by
the back country rangers. There is one very close to the summit of the Grand Teton and boy does it stink. And here in Olympic Natl. Park they have a
few as well. All is good until they lose a fully loaded one. This actually happened 2 years ago as the heli was taking off. He got about 150ft. up and
his line let go and down came the Sh}T Bomb!!! Almost burrying the poor rangers. There was crap everywhere!! Took them weeks to clean it up.
Yikes... ++C++ |
I retired just in time to avoid that fun.
Barry
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4375
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
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Low impact...I usually just squat a bit lower to the ground....
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Pacifico
Super Nomad
Posts: 1299
Registered: 5-26-2008
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I can only imagine pulling into a military checkpoint and having the soldiers dig into one of the 5 gallon containers of crap!!! They would think you
were a crazy....
I think some of your intentions are good, just not realistic. Take a shovel and bury your waste - it's more than the animals do!!!
As far as burning waste with diesel for you tree huggers out there - doesn't the burning fuel hurt the environment in other ways???
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64476
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
Low impact...I usually just squat a bit lower to the ground....
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Zac... RIGHT ON!!! 
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3777
Registered: 2-9-2004
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To climb Mt. Whitney they issue bags that you crap in, double seal, and pack out. I did that - very effective. Could be used in conjunction with
other methods. In isolated areas of Baja, when one craps in a hole once, covers it with a large rock and burns the toilet paper, then moves on, IMHO
there is little effect. In heavily used beach campgrounds, where RVs dump in the bays and everyone is strewing their TP around and it stinks, yeah -
something's gotta change and in that case, I think we should make every effort to not contribute to the situation, perhaps using a method suggested
here. Once these issues are understood and people take personal responsibility, things will begin to change.
Crusoe - have you been to Lake Constance recently? I would love to see what the reforestation areas that I worked on look like now.
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