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Germanicus
Nomad
Posts: 214
Registered: 6-13-2004
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BC and Garbage
Hi Folks,
Does anybody know about how small and mid-size Cities handle their garbage problem and disposal?
i.e. El Rosario or Bahia de LosAngeles or Santa Rosalia or Mulege or Loreto or Todos Santos etc, do they have some kind of a garbage service?
I heard - and I hope its wrong - that small Cities do not have garbage services and just everybody is dumping his stuff wherever he wants > out in the
boondocks.
What about these developments?
Lets say, there is a gringo subdivision of 200 homes or so, somewhere ouside a City.
How is the garbage disposal taken care of in such subdivisions?
Next question.
How is Waste Water taken care of?
Does everybody outside a City got to have a Sewer System or is it so that waste water is just running somewhere?
Thanx for any info.
Germanicus
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4863
Registered: 2-2-2003
Member Is Offline
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Dude
You really need to spend some time down here !
I think you may be in for a rude awakening at this point in time!!!
Things are changing here, but on a ma?ana schedule, which in my opinion, is going to change your entire opinion of what you want to do.
Take a week soon and see what's up! You just might not like what you see!
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Marie-Rose
Senior Nomad
Posts: 894
Registered: 10-2-2003
Location: Victoria, B.C. and Todos Santos
Member Is Offline
Mood: Worried...
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Todos Santos has weekly garbage pickup. Apparantly this is quite a new thing and the locals are gradually getting used to it. In the neighborhood we
stayed, the service was regular and it was good to see the garbage cans out and full! I do believe the service does not extend out to the newer
"gringo" areas.
Unfortunately there still is much garbage dumped in certain areas outside of town. I was also very pleased to see garbage pick up at Mermaid beach on
the east cape. That area was extremely free of litter.
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capn.sharky
Senior Nomad
Posts: 686
Registered: 9-4-2003
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Loreto
Loreto has twice weekly pickup by the garbage trucks. The garbage is hauled out to a land fill north of town and away from the highway. The town
also has a waste water treatment plant. It is next to the cemetary. When we clean our fish, we take the bones and waste products up to the land fill
and dump them there. Fish are no longer allowed to be cleaned on the islands---so the beaches are cleaner than in the past. I see drink cans crushed
and baled and heading north on big flatbeds so I would guess that recycling is starting in Baja.
If there is no fishing in heaven, I am not going
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Past and Present History of Trash in Loreto
Prior to Baja Sur becoming a State, Trash along Hwy 1 and the Villege of Loreto was Bad. Trash was Dumped as close to Town as allowed. The present
Ground North of Loreto was a Trash Dump, now Multi-Million dollar Homes set Atop that old Dump.To get to Rancho Sonrisa I had to haul off several old
JunkCars that had been there for years. Dead Animals,cats and Dogs that were eliminated by Poison in the Hundreds where dumped along rhe Back Fence of
"Rancho Sonrisa" and beyond!
After Gloria Davis Benziger became the First Congresswoman of the New State and the head of the Dept. Of Tourism, her first Act was to buy and Place
55 Gallon Drums on the Streets and started a Trash Pick up that was hauled North to a Dump.
A sewer system was started with Pumps placed near the Malacon which then Pumped the sewage to a Holding Pond to the North. Now there is a Treatment
Plant near the Cemetary.
On my recent trip to Loreto I was dissapointed in the amount of Trash on the Streets and the Beaches. It is hoped that the Next Presidente of Loreto
will spend some Money on Trash /Street Clean up .With the Limited Supply of Money, Clean up takes a Back Seat!
Might be that it will be necessary for the Envior-nuts to get together and have a "Loreto Clean-up Day". Time will Tell!!
Skeet/Loreto
"In God I Trust"
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bajagrouper
Senior Nomad
Posts: 964
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Rincon de Guayabitos, Nayarit, Mexico
Member Is Offline
Mood: happy and retired
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plastic bags on the barbed wire fence
in Baja there are not many land fills,garbage is simply taken a ways out of town and dumped on top of the ground,remember the crap blown all over the
road south of GN.Punta Chavato was another good example,take the wrong road and follow the buzzards,hundreds of them up that beautiful canyon full of
garbage.Another good one was after a nice meal in BOLA we walked out on there little pier to look at the stars and i pointed my flashlight down into
the water and turds were being dumped right into the bay..well that stopped me from skinny dipping
I hear the whales song
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Mike Humfreville
Super Nomad
Posts: 1148
Registered: 8-26-2003
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It's not just a problem in Baja...
Here in Ventura county, CA I drive daily to Pasadena past two BIG landfills. Each are about a mile off highway 126 where I drive and miles before I
get to either of them the Russian Thistle covering the sides of the highway are, themselves, covered with plastic bags, styrofoam cups and other crud.
Once in a while the dump operators have a policing day but most of the time the rural rows of crops and tumbleweeds along the roadsides are covered
with residules from the dump and the trucks bringing trash there. Where my smaller highway intersects Interstate 5 winding into the L.A. basin,
hundreds of trash trucks swarm back into the inner city. Each of them is flying flags high...flags of plastic bags stuck to the expanded metal lids
of their just-emptied trash containers. When we first moved here, 15 years ago, I noted several of these trucks all working for the same company. I
wrote down the identification number of several and called the company. They acted very concerned but did nothing. Today the problem is just as bad.
It will only get worse as the teeming swarms of people continue to descend of Southern California. It's not just in Baja.
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dug
Junior Nomad
Posts: 59
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: Oceanside
Member Is Offline
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The Delegado (mayor) of Erendira started putting out drums and picking up trash with his personal business trucks a couple of years ago. It has taken
some education to get the citizens to believe the cans will be emptied and the town will be cleaner but it is getting better. We donated a truck to
the community to be used for that purpose and the trash is taken to a landfill. Erendira looks better with promise of more improvements
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4863
Registered: 2-2-2003
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In Baja's case, it's all about education.
The majority of people here in Baja want to promote tourism as a means for an income.
Many of the people in the rural areas I travel to feel the same way. They need something more than cutting wood to get some money for educating
their children, so we are working on some trips and publicity.
The first thing I did upon finding out that they were interested in having visitors was discuss the trash "problem".
They had a dump just outside of town and most everything had blown everywhere. Ugly !!
I also pick up any trash I see when hiking. It was something they had become so used to, it wasn't any big deal to them. But, when some gringo
comes along and starts picking up stuff out in the middle of nowhere, they got kind of curious.
And now, the trash is always picked up, the campgrouds are generally spotless when I go back, and the dump has been cleaned up and moved.
The guides now carry bags with them for further cleanup purposes and it was so easy and successful, I couldn't believe it.
They seem to like it better clean too. Go figure!
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LaRibereņa
Nomad
Posts: 110
Registered: 8-27-2003
Location: Tehama, CA & La Ribera, BCS
Member Is Offline
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There's something to be said for chubascos. After the two hurricanes last year on the East Cape, the whole area was a clean as a whistle. Lord knows
where all that trash went. The mountains???
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
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Germanicus, your sounding like a total Baja amateur, havent you traveled here at all?
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64493
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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No Jesse, he has not!
But, Germanicus has heard great things and is here on Nomad to learn more before moving to Baja and starting a tourist business... He's got guts!
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
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San Felipe
San Felipe has regular minicipal trash pickup. Used to be large containers plaqce by the curb in each block, but now each home ahs a 55 gal drum
which is emptied at least once a week. All taken to the dump - you racers know where that is - and every 3-4 weeks it is set on fire and burned. A
couple or three rather smelly days. Lots of effort has been made to clean up some of the outlying areas with some success.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64493
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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San Felipe is more a city than a town and they don't even have a land fill operation with a bulldozer to bury the mess after it is dumped?
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4863
Registered: 2-2-2003
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How many "cities"
or towns in Baja have bulldozers David ? Most? Many? Some? None ? And what are they doing about trash in Bahia de los Angeles now that the
population has tripled so far ?
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mcgyver
Nomad
Posts: 444
Registered: 8-22-2003
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Garbage Dumps
OK, I had promised myself I would not get on my soapbox but now my credibility has been questioned, Now here is my statement and I will escort anyone
personaly to prove it ! ( at their expense of course).
There are about 20 mostly gringo campos between San Felipe and Puertocitos and 1 big mixed village at KM 34 S. The dump there must cover 500 acres!
Across the highway,west of the campos on the mountain side of the highway there are at least 15 open dumps. of these only about 3 have holes or
burn or make an attempt to keep the garbbage from blowing everywhere. Just out side San Felipe to the south there is a huge open dump. This is not
counting the bags of trash dumped along the road just south of the marina on holidays. Puertocitos has a huge open dump,they try to keep it burned and
have recently dozed some of it.
I will make it plain: I do not give a damm what the Mexicans do! it is there country after all!
But when it is posted that I was untruthful about Baja conditions I will reply!
And don't tell me about my spelling either, I know I cannot spell especialy when PO which I am now!!!
Most of the rest of Baja has this same condition in places and at times, when scrap iron prices are high all the wrecked and burned cars disappear
from the highways
If you "Ain't been there -Done that, don't question those who have"
PS: I did not mention all the Recreational rigs that dump their holding tanks after holidays on the campo roads or anywhere anywhere else rather than
hauling it back to the states, they could dig a hole and bury it.
Like I said,it is none of my business and I do not care what the Mexicans want to do or let some one else do but it is TRUE.
Now I am off of the soapbox, lets talk about some great trips or " Worst Stuck Stories", I love to hear them!
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64493
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Hi Max, where was your credibility questioned? You are there building your home so your opinion has value. I agree it is a Mexican problem, as you
say, but a lot of the trash is from all the new gringos living or vacationing there, yes? Since you and I are rare gringos who actually like to
explore west of Mex. 5 (away from the gulf), I would hope to not see miles of garbage across the desert or dumped in the pits at the sulfur mine.
Maybe each ejido (Delicias, Matomi, etc.) can work on this?
JR, Bahia de los Angeles has a 'city' dump a few miles away from town and the trash is burned... not sure if it is buried. That replaced the dumping
in the desert at the mouth of the canyon the highway uses... relying on flash floods to clean the dump (into the bay)!
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sin nombre
Junior Nomad
Posts: 35
Registered: 5-8-2004
Member Is Offline
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JR,
I was just wondering how often you visit Bahia de los Angeles.
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mcgyver
Nomad
Posts: 444
Registered: 8-22-2003
Member Is Offline
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Garbage
David, Refer to the original post on this subject!
There IS a large dumping area on the sulphur mine road on the north side and another at the intersection of the race course and the sulphur mine
road..
I do not pretend to be an expert on all of Baja but the part that I do frequent regularly I can make definate statements about and that you can take
as fact at the time. Off course like the road conditions from San Felipe to Hiway 1,
someone will post and say his rig was demolished by it! Others I can name and know personaly like FishingRich wonders what all the fuss is about, his
and my Freeways are hell to others, not to say that conditions can not change with a little weather between trips. The residents of the far southern
campos like to make hiway 5 sound like hell ( and I do Too)but THEY pull anything down that road they want too! For instance in June I had went out to
Coco,s area for the day, heading back north that PM I saw something large approaching at about the Punta Final intersection, it was a Greyhound
conversion R/V!! Not 5 miles closer to
Gonzaga I met a southbound 18 wheeler!
This was the only traffic I had met since leaving Coco's. No one will beleive this either but watch out for large objects in dust clouds! ( Especialy
if you are in a Sammy or Geo.)
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Germanicus
Nomad
Posts: 214
Registered: 6-13-2004
Member Is Offline
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Jesse, you got the answer from David K already. He knows me a lill as we have some contact and he is right.
Yes, that's why I'm here, to learn before making a move.
JR said it and I guess, everybody agrees in it: .
Well JR, that's right. But I do not want to be completely surprised by some ugly facts I will face.
I do know that Mexico(overall)is a Third World Country, poor,poorer,poorest.
But that has nothing to do with the culture of a country.
I know other poor countries > espacially in the "Old Communist World".
Those are keeping their country failrly clean > to support the tourism.
Well, Max/McGyver told me some 'stories' (I believe those stories, as he is somebody who knows) which are making me think, that I do not even want to
make a trip to the Baja by aircraft and see it from above.
And if I'm reading Skeets posting, that fits into Max story very well.
Now I am trying to figure out other opinions.
That's why I posted this question here.
I am trying to figure out what I gotto to do in case I am thinking more serious about the RV Park we want to construct.
David said it, yes we got to have guts.
So far I am convinced that it is posssible to contsruct and operate a NICE,CLEAN, and beautiful RV Place.
I was told that won't work, as the customers i.e. place diapers into the sewer > got stucked > making trouble any given day.
That in case you are hiring Mexicans as employees, you never get rid of them again if needed.
Well, that's what I want to learn.
There are good RV places already.
They managed those problems > and I will talk to those owners.
Why shouldn't it possible for me?
There are gringo developments all over Baja. They managed this problem as well > somehow.
The trash-problem is only one problem.
There are others as well.
But if I have to take care of that problem on my own - when I'm doing what I wanna do - I gotto learn how that could be possible.
If I'm really buying 10 or 20 or 30 ac for an RV park, how many more ac do I have to buy for a dump ground to get rid of my own trash?
well I can figure that out and only if I see a place I can make up my mind about it.
There is also the "overall trash visibility problem" facing me.
We are somehow "Western European Folks" not used to see trash everywehere.
So, as my friend who is giving me good information told me:"You will see trash on your way down the highway everywhere. Lots of abandoned cars and so.
Plastik flying around in the desert and hanging in the cactus."
Well, that's what I do not want to see for the rest of my life.
JR said: "Come here and have a rude awakening".
I am prepared for that.
But point is, I do not want to live on a dump ground (if it turns out that the entire Baja is one single dump ground) for the rest of my life.
JR , I will come and see as much as I can, but my opinion will not change.
If the Mexicans think it's their country and they can just convert it into a trash can, well that's their choice.
If they start to get smarter and do something for to boost tourism and for to earn some better money, then "it" might be going into the right
direction.
Figuring out all of these problems is helping me making up my mind whether or not I wanna do what I wanna do.
I will place other "problems" I am aware of about the Baja Life in other postings and I do hope you guys are giving as much input as possible.
Thanx to all of you and have a nice (and clean) day
Germanicus
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