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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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THAT IS A ROAD???
David----Usually pics do not show just how horrible a road is-----that pic of that "road???" is the worst thing I have ever seen. No way do I take my
vehicles on that "road". The Mission protection can wait-----new project is improving that "road". Neil Johns needs to test his Toyota on that road
to see if his newer front end will stand up. (-: Barry
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David K
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Yes, as I said it is the toughest 14.5 mile road in Baja... to go that short distance it takes nearly THREE HOURS! ja ja ja ja ja!!! 
It was my second time there. The first time (with BajaMur) I was on a quad and got 'tossed' climbing that grade, blood spilled... So, I named it the
Widowmaker. Most usually park at the top of that grade and walk the remaining 1.2 mile to the mission.
Last year not only did our three rigs drive all the way in, but a Jeep club with a dozen + rigs (including Cherokees) come in as well.
Neal and his army was in there before me... The Toyota TRD locking rear differential really works on that climb. See more photos of the drive in and
out at http://vivabaja.com/403/page2.html
Would I go back? YOU BET!! It rates as one of the 'best' that Baja has to offer! Santa Maria has a magic quality... the palms, the ruins, the amazing
quantity of water flowing out of that desert mountain!!!
[Edited on 8-9-2004 by David K]
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Jack Swords
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Location: Nipomo, CA/La Paz, BCS
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Mission repair
David, thanks for the heads up...
I have been concerned about this mission's front wall since hurricane Juliette. The rainwater that falls in the floorspace of the mission flows out
the front door and undercuts the wall (you can see it in the photo). This is a thick wall, but its loss will change the ruin for all time. The idea
of David's of using sand bags will divert water and protect it, plus they are easy to carry up there. This is my favorite place/mission. Lots of
water, blue palms, and, best of all, difficult to get to. I'm very willing to be a part of a group this fall to drive (4X4) or backpack to the site
to sandbag it. It is non intrusive and will give INAH more opportunity to get it together. They have NOT done anything yet to protect the site, and
are aware of it. To have a plan and ask permission from INAH would most likely result in a negative response (territoriality) and then efforts would
be unlawful. And...sandbags can be removed with no harm done. Good project for Oct/Nov (hopefully no major hurricanes before then). Then INAH can be
made aware of the sandbagging and hopefully go up and apply the cement slurry used in many of the other more accessible missions.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64514
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Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Excellent Plan Jack!
The mission is on private land (Rancho Santa Ynez), or it was at one time according to quotes from Josefina. Fred Hampe owns Santa Ynez now. Perhaps
he or Ralph will be supportive. I can also email Marvin Patchen who has the cabin east of the runway that people stay in (mostly Graham). Marvin would
be keen on the idea, but he is too far up in years to get involved. I know Graham would want to join us, Santa Maria is one of his favorite places in
Baja. He is in Michigan for the summer, but I will will give him a heads up.
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Jack Swords
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Mission Santa Maria
I believe Ralph is in New Mexico for the summer, but returns in the fall. I have his e-mail address, but it is in La Paz. Perhaps Marvin has it.
Ralph rides his fat tired motorcycle up to the mission regularly and would be good to contact. Let's do it! Oct/Nov?
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academicanarchist
Senior Nomad
Posts: 978
Registered: 9-7-2003
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Visit to Santa Maria
If it is late October or early November, I might be able to come along. I will be in Argentina for three weeks starting in late September.
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Mexitron
Ultra Nomad
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Registered: 9-21-2003
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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Hey David K--that's a nasty looking road!! I might a have a close second though--the road from Rancho Coyote to Mike's Sky Ranch after the winter of
1996--took us 4 and a half hours to go 12 miles! Managed to wrap the side of my Toyota around the trunk of an Oak Tree too. We met a group coming the
other way(toward's Meling R.) and they said they were going back to Mike's via the main highways....guess we should've taken a hint and turned around!
Alas, the road has been regraded and it only takes about an hour and a half to 2 hours as of April 2004.
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jrbaja
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You don't say!
Yes, as I said it is the toughest 14.5 mile road in Baja...
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David K
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There you go again...
"It is the toughest 14.5 mile road in Baja" (in my opinion). Mexitron's tough road wasn't 14.5 miles long.
If you aren't going to be nice, no Matomi Movie for you!
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Taco de Baja
Super Nomad
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Location: Behind the Orange Curtain, CA
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I would recommend using natural fiber sand bags. The plastic ones will break down in a year or less of desert heat. And then blow all over the
mission grounds. They are tough to find up here in the States, but may be easier to find south of the border.
In addition, the archaeologist in me says to be careful of where the material to fill the bags comes from. The area around the mission is fill of
artifacts, and it would be a shame to dig into an intact archaeological site. (I have seen that happen out on San Nicolas Island by idiot Navy
personnel). It is best to get the sand from an active stream that contains no artifacts, and haul it up to the mission.
Sounds like a good project though., Maybe my schedule will llow me to go to. Keep me informed of dates!
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David K
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Thanks Brooks. I wouldn't think of anything like digging in the mission... Jack Swords is authorized by INAH and I would always seek his advice. It
was he who suggested shoring up the doorway erosion last year. That has been stewing in my mind... and now with the photos reminding me of how each
time thjere is a thunderstorm, the inside of the mission fills with water and the doorway is the only exit and a gully is eating away at both sides of
the doorway. If nothing is done, that entire giant adobe wall will collapse.
Now, if you haven't seen BajaMur's panorama art the mission, you gotta see it... this is almost like being at the mission!
http://bajamur.homestead.com/files/mission.html
Give it several minutes to open... 360 degrees at the mission (and you can see me dancing for joy that we made it!)
Here is a slightly smaller and faster panorama: http://hometown.aol.com/murcarver/pan/panorama.html move your mouse back and forth and that seems to make the images open faster.
BajaMur's Santa Maria trip photos are at: http://bajamur.homestead.com/index.html
I hope some good will come of this idea of Jack's. I also would like to go and help... my truck can ferry sand bags and ? However, I would need it to
be on a school holiday to go.
[Edited on 8-10-2004 by David K]
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64514
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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End the game...
Before we get too sidetracked into fixing Mision Santa Maria, let me end the game with the answer for one photo of me sitting in a 'cave' (note
pictograph above my shoulder)... This was at Montevideo, off the road to Mision San Borja, west of Bahia de los Angeles. Photo taken during our 15 day
trip the length of Baja, and is in this web page: http://vivabaja.com/baja15
Thanks for playing!
[Edited on 8-12-2004 by David K]
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Mexitron
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3397
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Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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I'll reiterate Taco's sandbag idea--the plastic ones don't last long at all in full sun.
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Debra
Super Nomad
Posts: 2101
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Location: Port Orchard Wa./Bahia de Los Angeles BC
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Will you bring plaster or cement to shore up the sand bags? Seems to me that if the mission isn't touched directly and it's just to make a diversion
around for the water no one should have an objection? I say go for it! And thank you!
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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Sand bags----synthetic or natural fiber??
Taco and Mexitron-----Shows you what I know about sandbags---NOTHING!!!! I always was told that the synthetic ones lasted longer, but I really have no
personal experience. I do know that we used natural fiber ones to divert streams on the family ranch and they did last for years. I think some of them
have been in place for at least 8 years. I stand corrected on this one, and I thankyou for pointing that out.
Debra----I do not think that we would even need plaster or cement---sandbags seem to stay in place very well by themselves, I guess because they are
so heavy. Barry
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jrbaja
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Ummmm, here I go again,
shouldn't the reparation, alteration, excavation, exploration, and any type of visit to a Mexican Historical site include some Mexicans. And ones that
have their credentials from INAH or Profepa ?
Especially when changes will be made to the site?
Perhaps this would be a good way to light a fire under their fannies to get with the program. And, some of them are just as interested as many of
you. And it's their country.
And more people are always good when it comes to sandbagging!
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64514
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Location: San Diego County
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That is an excellent point JR. We do have Mexican Nationals at Baja Nomad. JESSE and BajaCactus for instance... If there was any sincere concern (or
ability) by Mexico to preserve these places, it would have been done... It just isn't on the high priority mark. With all the money the Catholic
Church has, even they don't come forward to save what is left.
Restoration has been done at Mision San Vicente, but that project seems dormant now. Perhaps we history buffs just dwell too much in the past, and
these are just piles of rubble to most everyone else...?
I see the sites as places were people first were (at least Europeans) in Baja... How they lived, why they put themselves through, so much suffering,
and more!
Santa Maria has abundant water, but little cultivatable land... Yet, the Jesuits held high expectations for expanding their chain north (and also east
to join their Sonora missions)... Unfortunately, they were betrayed by (Franciscan?) agents in the Spanish court of the king. The king was made to
believe California was full of gold, silver and pearls, and the Jesuits were not paying the king's per centage (tax evasion)! Bye bye Jesuits...
This is where the lost mission treasure legends of Baja were born (Santa Isabel, Santa Clara, etc.)... The Spanish accountants found no treasure at
the missions, so the Jesuits must of hid it all!!!
TRUTH is, they worked their buns off just to grow enough food to eat (the padres and the natives)... there was no time for mining... by the Jesuits,
at least.
[Edited on 8-12-2004 by David K]
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jrbaja
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Let me splain
Mexico does not have rich people like the u.s. that have "extra" time to go digging up or preserving historic sites in other countries, let alone
their own.
They are busy trying to feed and educate their families under some of the most adverse conditions.
To think that they don't care is extremely disappointing to hear from you. And way wrong!
How many of them have you asked whether they care or not?
I have been dealing with just this attitude down south. It is their land, it should be their finds, and credit should go to them. Period.
If you sincerely want to help the Mexicans, pay the locals to show you what's up.
And bring sandbags and people to help fill em. If that's what's decided is best for the preservation of this history.
On the other hand, for the original families of Baja, that carry native bloodlines, perhaps they look at these ungodly sites as Native North
Americans look at thanksgiving.
It's not nice to mess with Ma Nature anyway.
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Debra
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| Quote: |
[/ On the other hand, for the original families of Baja, that carry native bloodlines, perhaps they look at these ungodly sites as Native North
Americans look at thanksgiving.
It's not nice to mess with Ma Nature anyway. |
Very good point JR. However, We Native North Americans also preserve the site at Wounded Knee to mention only one. It would be a shame to loose the
Missions.
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Jack Swords
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Location: Nipomo, CA/La Paz, BCS
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Mission view of doorway
Here is a view of the doorway showing potential failure source. Be a shame to lose this structure.
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