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wessongroup
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This would be so cool Woooosh.. good luck ... think you're getting some really great advice on how to effective deal with your and many others
"problems" on issues of this type.. Thanks ramuma53 ..
Don't have a dog in this fight, but it is so good of you to share your vast knowledge on the issue of owning property in Baja and/or Mexico
As for the benefit of Relators in property transactions.. in Baja.. right pal .. they did a great job of protecting all those parties in the States
that got really sh*t loans.. which they could not afford.. no responsibility nor liability there (right they just put the fools in front of a loan
officer).. curios they got the gold and the buyer got the shaft ...
Don't think ramuma53 has EVER claimed to be a relator ... If so, I stand corrected... I believe all he has ever claim, he studied law, engineering,
ran for public office and was affiliated with a news service... If I'm in correct, again I stand corrected.. old age.. ya know how it goes..
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ramuma53
bajabass
You are right here in Mexico and any other place in the world, but now that you know how to obtain results in Mexico, it is only a matter of doing it
when you need it and that is this thread's goal |
Yes, and it is a very valuable thread. I'm not alone in my appreciation of your knowledge. Making lemonade from lemons. You have to play the game
they play, only smarter. The hard part is figuring out who you can trust down here while playing it. I decided there was no one I could trust but
the people I am fighting for and just try to get all my ducks lined up. Now I have Snr. Chavira to put all the dots I have created together. I do
hope he takes this case. I refuse to pay bribes over this, but I will pay an expert who can help me be an effective troublemaker. Amazingly- more
neighbors I have never met in 6 years of being here (not unusual for Mexico) are going out of their way to thank our family for our efforts. That
means a lot too. Fighting the good fight is what a Connecticut Yankee does. I commented to Snr. Villareal that I am not a gringo. I am a CT Yankee
who is revolutionary by nature and fights for the people. I don't think he had hard that before, and it accurately reflects my commitment to this
cause.
(Do you any idea of how many "Turtle Bust" pages I had to go through to get your real name? lol)
[Edited on 1-11-2011 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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ramuma53
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Woooosh
I am not a realtor and have never been.
I am civil Engineer and attorney at Mexican law, plus 25 years experience as expert withness on those matters, that is why I know the good and bad
expert withnesses.
Yes I was 50% owner of ABC Baja Estate newspaper where I wrote La Verdadera Historia de Rosarito and Cronica de un Fraude a la Nacion, series articles
that lasted 5 years and 122 whole pages, exactly about that problem in Rosarito.
Now I consider myself just a developer.
Yes you may be a just a gringo in Rosarito, but remember that almost 80% of the Rosarito's income and taxes comes direct or indirect from Gringos and
I learned that when I ran for the Natinal Senate office for Baja.
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ramuma53
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For people who need it.
I have a personal documents file, starting in 1825, that is better than most public offices, concerning the Tijuana to Ensenada corridor, incluiding
official newspapers and official federal zone maps, that you can not get any other place and I can provide that for specific problems.
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ramuma53
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wessongroup
Concerning the Rosarito's realtors, I am sorry to say it, but you can not trust most of them, they are in bed with the people who caused the problems
and their only interest is in getting your money and get their commision, not to protect your life savings.
Public notaries, are not the solution, they are part of the problem.
Attorneys? be extremely carfull, only 1 in 10 are good and know what they are talking about concerning Federal Zone and National land.
Public officials? no way, they are itersted in maintaining the problems.
Who to trust? nobody, trust your own knowledge and follow your instinct.
I am going to tell you an attorney's joke.
On the question on how to diferentiate a good from a bad attorney.
Take a cat with you the first time you meet with him.
if the cat gets angry and try to attack him, do not use him.
if the cat is afraid of him, use him.
Why?
Because if the attroney is a rat, the cat will attack him and if he fight like a dog, the cat would be afraid of him.
make yourown conclusions.
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wessongroup
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Would you share some of your writings on "La Verdadera Historia de Rosarito"
Can only think it would be great to read, one side of my wife's family married into a family named Duron in Rosarito and the Hernandez from Tijuana
One of the men still lived and worked in TJ in 1964 when I first met my wife's great grandmother "Moma Goya"... still remember being so amazed at how
clean the yard and home were, even with dirt floors... and the house was freshly painted, it was up in the hill to the south to TJ, didn't know
exactly where I was ... was getting turning directions from my wife's cousin Chuck Hernandez...
The men used to tell us stories about how good there life was in Rosarito back in the 30-40's .. go down and catch dinner.. had row crops and water...
sound house that keep the rain out.. and kept you warm in the winter... but, the women, wanted what all women want... dishwashers, shopping ya, know
what I'm talking about.. so they all moved up to East L.A in the late 40's after the war.. except for Uncle Joe.. he stayed in TJ and worked in the
produce market.. as did Mr Hernandez.. (who later became head sales man for the Caplan's who sold produce at Terminal market in downtown Los Angeles..
and it was Frieda Caplan who introduced the Kiwi and other specialty crops into the American food supply)..
But, I would sure like to read some of your work on the subject
[Edited on 1-17-2011 by wessongroup]
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ramuma53
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wessongroup
La verdadera Historia de Rosarito is the True Rosarito history.
The reason to write a true history is because the History a lot of people invented was a fairy tale and on that fairy tale, they were trying to base
the Real Estate sales in Rosarito.
The first article was ¨Cronica de un Fraude a la Nacion¨ or ¨fraud against the Nation story¨ and was motivated on the Fraud that a lot of realtors
and big land owners were trying to execute in harm to the national land property.
The then accepted history was that Joaquin Machado was the Rancho Rosarito owner in 1879 and supposedly he inherited the property from his father Don
Juan Machado who received it from the Governor don Jose Maria Echendia in 1825, but I discovered the legal root to demonstrate that that Property
right was inexistent and as a consequence, all the Rosarito Area was in 1995 National Land and not private property as everyone assumed.
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ramuma53
wessongroup
I discovered the legal root to demonstrate that that Property right was inexistent and as a consequence, all the Rosarito Area was in 1995 National
Land and not private property as everyone assumed. |
I'm sure you're a popular guy up here in Rosarito! LOL
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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wessongroup
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Thank you very much for your sharing some of your knowledge on this subject, as it does and/or should help many folks here in understanding real
estate transactions in Baja and Mexico.. IMHO
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Marc
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I would just rent or lease. Someday the REAL owner is going to show up!
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larryC
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Ramuma
I'm not sure if I should start a new thread or hi-jack this one, but I have a question about fideocomiso lot sizes. I have always heard that the
maximum lot size was 2000 sq. meters. 2 years ago I bought an existing fideocomiso and the surveyed lot size is 4400 sq. meters. Does that sound right
to you?
Larry
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ramuma53
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LarryC
The fideicomiso is a glorified lease contract, collateralized by the bank, the bank serve as the legal rights depository for the life of the
fideicomiso and being a lease contract, it has no limit but the constitutional one for 2500 has or 25'000,000 m2, I know a lot of fideicomisos a lot
bigger than that and dealing with tourist kind of lot, they have lower limit of 400 m2 but no upper limit.
The lot sizes depend o the Fraccionamiento law or land development law and that law say that a 2000 m2 lot is called granja failiar or family lot but
that is a minimum also no upper limit for family lots and being categorized like that mean that the developer is not obligated to put pavment or
concrete on the streets, he is obligaed only to the bare bones public installations.
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ramuma53
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Mark
If you rent or lease you will not have problems, but the usual situation in Baja is that the American guy, rent long term to be able to build a house
that he is planning to use for his golden years walking the beach.
The problem with National Land is that they do not have any hurry to start the problems, they usually wait untill the area is developed and then the
problem start, that is exactly the case for Punta Banda in Ensenada, and that was the case that exploded the Real Estate crisis in the Tijuana
Ensenada coastal strip, because the Supreme Court ruled for National Land.
After that, it is only a matter of time, it is a big time bomb and local politicians have tried to hide that fact for 20 years now, but for National
Land rights there is no status of limitations or any time limit, they can start today or in 20 years when the strip would be full of towers bought and
paid by Baby Boomers,
Just see the 3 tower complexes built by the Hugo Torres Chavert group; the 3 are on National Land already sold by the nation to another people.
To be able to sell while many people know about the very high risk, they invented the in house title insurance, in other words, the same company based
in Islas del Caiman in the Caribbean, sell the insurance, well even the company is named Los Gatos or the cats, and I think that they did it to mean
that they will be very hard to catch when they start running.
That is why Hugo Torres Chavert has been so interested in occupying city offices at all costs.
My first article on the public press in Baja was Cronica de un fraude a la Nacion and that story has not ended yet.
To avoid this problem, in 1992, I maneuvered in Mexico city to convince the National Land department to come to the Rosarito area to regularize the
land ownership and I managed to bring a small commission, but they expected to acquire 20 or 30 files and sent personnel for that job; then in 3
months they received 5,500 files and almost went crazy working 20 hours a day.
Then the first PAN governor, Governor Ruffo, asked the President to end the land regularization in Rosarito, because it was too conflictive and
tourist would be scared away if they knew all the land lots and condominiums were not really owned by the people receiving the money from them and
managed to close the commission with only 4 or 5 titles issued while at the same time in Puebla they issued 16,000 to an area with the same problems
and let me tell you, that area now has no problems while Rosarito is in a Real Estate chaos.
Yes that made me a very popular guy in Rosarito, with the big land owners and developers who were tying at all cost to put the national land issue
under the rug and they succeeded, with the actual situation resulting.
I was unpopular with them, but gained me the nomination to the National senate for Baja, I lost of course because I was issued $10,000 pesos for my
whole campaign, money that was lost and never arrived anyway, but I managed to bring the highest number of votes in any estate for that party, most of
them in the Rosarito Area.
The Rosarito Story has not ended, it will, with a lot of Punta Bandas and I hope that, with this information, many Americans avoid getting entangled
in that problem, saving Mexico another fiasco.
[Edited on 1-17-2011 by ramuma53]
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Marc
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This information is a must read for anyone thinking of buying. I would consider only renting in Mexico. I have a place in Hawaii, on Maui that was so
EASY. I could not imagine going through the complexities and stress of buying property in Mexico.
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ELINVESTIG8R
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I will never buy a house in Mexico but if I were to buy one I would sure heed Rafael's advice. He is the sage of real estate dealings as far as I'm
concerned.
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ELINVESTIG8R
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Rafael,
Based on your experiences in business and having dealt in real estate yourself, would you please consider making a list of the correct procedures in
going about buying a home or land in Baja. Can you also list the warning signs they should be looking for to tell them not to get involved with
someone and how they can recover their money if they are taken advantage of. I hope this is not asking too much of you. I for one would trust your
advice and I'm sure others would too. Thank you!
David
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bajaguy
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Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
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Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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From the Sundog Site
.Baja Real Estate Deal Sours for U.S. Investors
By T.B. Beaudeau | Published Thursday, Jan. 20, 2011
This week, Tijuana's daily Frontera reported that a four-million-dollar fraud was claimed by a group of U.S. citizens who bought into a Baja real
estate scheme.
Plaintiffs' attorney Monica Gutierrez is quoted as saying that in 2006, Realty Executives (a Mexican firm) sold to U.S. investors a multi-unit condo
complex to be called La Esmeralda del Mar. The project, which was supposed to rise in the vicinity of Puerto Nuevo, has never been initiated.
About 30 investors made large deposits on the property in advance. Realty Executives reportedly cannot produce proof that they were legally qualified
to sell such a project.
The lawyer added that the project was kicked off with the gathering of deposits, but in 2009 the plaintiffs filed a lawsuit to get their money back
when the project failed to get off the ground.
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ramuma53
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Baja Guy
That Project is just an example, of the kind of problems in that area, but the problem is not that complex.
Rule 1.- Do not buy in the Tijuana, Ensenada Coastal strip, unless they show you the national land Title, they will tell you 1000 excuses, but No
national Land title, no buy, that is easy and I warn you, there are very few and none of the big developments have one, specially the La Joya del Mar
development in Rosarito or the one you mention Esmeralda del mar.
Why? They are over National land that has not been cleared by the courts or formally sold by the National Land offcice and at this time is National
land, that is why they offer the ¨in house title insurance¨, exactly the legal act that defines that area as national Land is ¨Declaratoria de
Terrenos Nacionales 1952¨ they will tell you that the Torres group has an impeccable reputation, but it is not true, all their developments are in
national Land or irregular properties and under very unreliable companies, like ¨Los Gatos¨ a Caiman island company, that hold the one in Rosarito
downtown, they claim to have bought the land from the Ejido Mazatlan but they certainly know they bought National Land on false grounds and remember
that National Land has no status of limitations, anyone who buys there, should be aware that they are in line for another Punta Banda.
In Mexico City the National Land office has procedures that in time will take back that land, to the rightful owners, they take a long time but they
certainly end one day, like Punta Banda.
On that strip, The key to buy land, is, National land title or no buy, do not hear the public notary or public officials, they are the source of the
problem, not the people who will correct it, they are very interested in hiding the National Land issue, but it has surfaced again and again for 25
years and it is not going out.
Some people will question what use is to know history about a place and let me tell you why.
PEOPLE WHO DO NOT KNOW HISTORY, IS CONDEMNED TO REPEAT THE SAME MISTAKES
Sun Tzu wrote in the art of war, that, if you do some things, you will be sure to win a conflict and if you do not do those things, you would be sure
to lose the conflict, this is the case, if you follow that rule, you will be able to buy safely in Baja. You will be asked to violate this rule by
many people you should be able to trust, do not.
They certainly know of the problem, they know of the correcting action they need to take, but since they are over national Land, they do not want to
buy from the nation the land again, mostly because the price is about USD$100.00 dlls/m2, but they are selling it to you, at over USD$3,500.00 dlls/m2
built, they surely have room to correct the problem, but so far, they have been trying to hide the fact at all costs. In my opinion a stupid act, but
that is the actual situation.
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ramuma53
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Key factors to buy in Baja
1.- Do not buy from Ejidos unless you are prepared to spend years in courts.
2.- Do not buy from Colonial Titles, no exceptions.
3.- If you only are show a Public Notary scripture, follow it back untill you find the property´s source, it must be a national Land title, no
exceptions, no court orders, no court rullings, no historic titles issued 1879-1917 even if National land titles, No national land titles 1965-1969.
4.- do not hear public notaries or public offcials asuring you everything is right, only trust your knowledge.
Now, oportunities
Most people do not know that the Federal Zone laws changed in 1992 and the 20 mts. from the sea strip rule do no apply anymore.
The new Federal Zone definition is:
Where the coast show a beach and the solid ground beside the beach has a slope of 30 degrees or less, a federal zone will be measured.
That mean, that if you are beside a cliff, the slope is well over 30 degrees and no Federal Zone exist consequently you should not be paying for it.
Do not belive the Rosarito public officials on this issue, Rosarito beach city income, come 25% from Federal zone charges and 90% of those charges are
to properties beside cliffs, that have no Federal Zone.
We have won a lot of cases for people who were being charged for a Federal Zone that does not exist and this apply all over Mexico since the Federal
Zone law is a Federal one.
[Edited on 1-23-2011 by ramuma53]
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ramuma53
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How to recover your money once you bought land and problems explode when some people claim to own that land specially if they have a National Land
title and the developer not.
You may be covered by a Title insurance issued by First American Title insurance or Stewart title insurance, most others are just sellers for those
two; if you do try to ask them to pay for your house, but be aware that they put a lot of fine print to protet themselves, so when you buy, read the
fine print and check yourself the property papers, don not fully trust them, they make a lot of mistakes, just see the Maravia development in La Paz
or La Joya del mar in Rosarito with an in house title insurance.
If not, you will be paying for not following the rules to buy in Baja and you will be crying like the Punta banda guys.
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