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Author: Subject: Santa Isabel Found - not joking - nomad wanted
elbeau
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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 07:52 AM
Santa Isabel Found - not joking - nomad wanted


All joking aside, I believe I have found the site of what people call the lost mission of Santa Isabel using Google Earth...please pause here to laugh :)...

Now that you're done laughing, please look closely at the images in this post. One is a rough drawing I made of what I think I see there. The other is a screenshot from Google Earth converted to grayscale. The site matches the location and description from at least three of the most popular legend stories, and it is built on a MUCH LARGER complex of ancient sites that will rewrite what is known of pre-columbian Baja civilization.

I've tried contacting nine different professors from various parts of academia. Only one of them gave me the time of day and he loves what he sees, but like myself, he wants someone to go onsite to confirm it.

I'd love to go onsite, but I'm the father of four daughters (one with special needs) and I'm a 26 hour drive from the site and I really can't get away for a trip like that.

So...I'm looking for a nomad with an adventurous spirit who is willing to drive to a remote spot in Baja California and then hike for about 3 miles to the site. There will be MANY other ruins along the way. Before you go I will provide Google Earth KML files so that you can look at the area yourself and make sure I'm not just a nutjob.

All joking aside, if this does pan out and I really am seeing what I think I'm seeing, this site is vulnerable to looting and needs to be protected as much as possible. Mexican government involvement is a must as soon as we have confirmation of the site.

So, if you're interested in writing yourself into this story, please let me know. I won't listen to anybody who isn't a long-time active member of this site because to open this up to anybody would only increase the chances that someone with the wrong intentions would get to go there. I will also want a promise that you will not disturb ANYTHING at the site.

Any takers?

If not, I'll start posting more and more and more pictures of architecture and ancient public works projects until someone bites.

I know it's hard to understand the scale of what you are looking at in these pics and I know how well our eyes can get tricked by Google Earth, but trust me, these images hold up under scrutiny.

(edited to add the words "STILL" and "please" to the title)

[Edited on 3-18-2011 by elbeau]

[Edited on 5-2-2011 by elbeau]
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elbeau
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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 07:56 AM


Darn it, my pics are too big...just a sec.
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elbeau
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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 08:01 AM





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vandenberg
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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 08:18 AM


Not bad, Codo.:biggrin::biggrin:



I think my photographic memory ran out of film


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David K
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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 08:47 AM


Having been to one lost mission site already ( http://vivabaja.com/109 ), I am game for another... elbeau (elbow=codo)

Sadly, there was no documentation ever of a mission named Santa Isabel. It was a story handed down, believed to be a Dominican site rather than a Jesuit one. However, it was the Jesuits who were removed by force from the New World in 1767-8... and so they were usually the ones connected to lost mission stories. Santa Clara and Santa Isabel being the most well known. See also http://vivabaja.com/1757

Choral Pepper was one of many writers who searched for Santa Isabel near Puertecitos... Others believed it to be closer to Matomi, San Juan de Dios, or in the lower San Pedro Martir. Erle Stanley Gardner thought he spotted it closer to Laguna Chapala... All good fun desert exploration!

Here is a story from 1941:

One of several Baja and Mexican stories in the 1941 book 'Golden Mirages' by Philip A. Bailey that deals mostly with Southern California and Arizona treasure stories...

The 4 page story starts and ends mid page...









Here is a map with the place names mentioned in this story circled in blue... at the approx. distance from San Fernando and Santa Maria, and at the approx. heading from San Agustin IS the Sierra Santa Isabel, near Puertecitos.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is a story from 1967:

This is another gem from my collection of Choral Pepper's saved Baja magazine articles!

This article called 'Una casa grandote, una cruz arriba (Some further words on the controversy over "The Lost Mission" Santa Isabel)' by Harold O. Weight was published in the September, 1967 issue of Westways Magazine.

It is the best Santa Isabel, found story I think I have read so far!













Here is the area with the water hole plotted and a 12 mile radius out drawn in...





Let the hunt begin! :light::cool:

Of interest, here is the spring from the story: Agua del Mezquitito (2.4 miles south of Okie Landing/ 15 miles north of Gonzaga Bay)...





This is me (age 16) in 1974 on my first Baja trip without parents. I returned here in 2002 and a corral of tires was made around the water hole.


Here is Rancho Parral... a few miles north of Matomi:




RANCHO EL PARRAL 3029.42', 11506.97'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the upper Matomi canyon with its blue palms... Photo from Mexitron, 2004:




Santa Isabel could be just around the bend?




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Baja Missions and History On Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/bajamissions/
Camping, off-roading, Viva Baja discussion: https://www.facebook.com/groups/vivabaja


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elbeau
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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 08:59 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Having been to one lost mission site already ( http://vivabaja.com/109 ), I am game for another... elbeau (elbow=codo)

Sadly, there was no documentation ever of a mission named Santa Isabel. It was a story handed down, believed to be a Dominican site rather than a Jesuit one. However, it was the Jesuits who were removed by force from the New World in 1767-8... and so they were usually the ones connected to lost mission stories. Santa Clara and Santa Isabel being the most well known.


If (and I know it's a BIG "if") I can convince you that this site deserves a visit, how soon could you drop whatever you're normally doing and go?

Also, I have no idea who is who on this forum. Can some people who know David K. please vouch for him?

I know that so far I sound like I need a CAT scan, and maybe that's right, but I have a LOT more to show to whoever really wants to go.
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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 09:03 AM


...And I agree, there was probably now "mission" named Santa Isabel, but this site sure could explain why the stories abound. What I really think it is is a much more ancient site extending into the hills around it. There are two adobe-looking structures at the site that seems to have generated the "mission" stories, including the spidery looking building pictured above. The other ruins are colored very differently and are much more overgrown...so don't get your hopes up for buried treasure, but that doesn't mean you won't be "King Nomad" anyways :)

jk
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David K
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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 09:05 AM


If you check the stats, and history, you can see I am the longest active Nomad following the owner of Baja Nomad (Doug) who is a friend.

Check out my Baja mission information pages: http://vivabaja.com/bajamissions as well as my Baja web site http://vivabaja.com/

I live in San Diego County and have been traveling to Baja since I was a kid in 1965... I have written two Baja road logs in the 1970's and many travel articles since... as well as numerous trip and history reports here on Baja Nomad and other web sites.

I try and share my Baja map and book collection with anyone interested in Baja history or geography...

Welcome to Baja Nomad... you can spend weeks reading the many years of posts here since this site began in 2002.




"So Much Baja, So Little Time..."

See the NEW www.VivaBaja.com for maps, travel articles, links, trip photos, and more!
Baja Missions and History On Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/bajamissions/
Camping, off-roading, Viva Baja discussion: https://www.facebook.com/groups/vivabaja


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David K
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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 09:10 AM


PS, to prevent the Nomad page from stretching too wide rerquiring sideways scrolling, reduce the image size to a max. of 800 pixels wide. Yours is 1269 pixels wide... I need to go to work, but I will check back this afternoon! I sent a note to Doug to see if he can resize the image for you, if you aren't sure how.



"So Much Baja, So Little Time..."

See the NEW www.VivaBaja.com for maps, travel articles, links, trip photos, and more!
Baja Missions and History On Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/bajamissions/
Camping, off-roading, Viva Baja discussion: https://www.facebook.com/groups/vivabaja


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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 09:13 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by elbeau
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Having been to one lost mission site already ( http://vivabaja.com/109 ), I am game for another... elbeau (elbow=codo)

Sadly, there was no documentation ever of a mission named Santa Isabel. It was a story handed down, believed to be a Dominican site rather than a Jesuit one. However, it was the Jesuits who were removed by force from the New World in 1767-8... and so they were usually the ones connected to lost mission stories. Santa Clara and Santa Isabel being the most well known.


If (and I know it's a BIG "if") I can convince you that this site deserves a visit, how soon could you drop whatever you're normally doing and go?

Also, I have no idea who is who on this forum. Can some people who know David K. please vouch for him?

I know that so far I sound like I need a CAT scan, and maybe that's right, but I have a LOT more to show to whoever really wants to go.


hey elbeau:
DK is the "bloviator in chief." He is also the uber politcal lightning rod, and resident nomad mission-head. If he believes your mission story, he will be your publicist, mentor and defender. sadly, he is a teabag :lol:
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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 09:15 AM
how did you sketch the mission from that nebulous google photo?


Quote:
Originally posted by elbeau






how did you sketch the mission from that nebulous google photo?
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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 09:20 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by elbeau
So...I'm looking for a nomad with an adventurous spirit who is willing to drive to a remote spot in Baja California and then hike for about 3 miles to the site. There will be MANY other ruins along the way.

So, if you're interested in writing yourself into this story, please let me know. I won't listen to anybody who isn't a long-time active member of this site because to open this up to anybody would only increase the chances that someone with the wrong intentions would get to go there. I will also want a promise that you will not disturb ANYTHING at the site.



MANY other ruins along the way? Will there be a cave full of pirate booty? How about just regular old booty?
Only old nomads allowed, because you are such a newbie?

me thinks you are a clever troll! but i love a good humorous troll!
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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 09:21 AM


Let's go!
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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 09:27 AM


I WANNA GO!!! HAVE 4WD, WILL NOT DIVULGE LOCATION; HAVE ABSOLUTE RESPECT FOR ANTIQUITIES. A TEAM??? I WANNA GO!!!! I CAN GO NOW, BUT NEED TO BE BACK BEFORE MAR. 26. (or go after Mar. 26).
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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 09:42 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
how did you sketch the mission from that nebulous google photo?


It's a little (not a lot, but a little) less nebulous when you can flip and twist Google Earth around and stare at it from different angles.

The "Stone Corral" which is nearby made it easy to know generally where to look, and the spidery structure is a different color than the rest of the terrain, so finding the spot to look at wasn't terribly hard, and it seemed like it looked like something man-made, but it took A LOT of studying before I could make that sketch.
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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 09:43 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by wilderone
I WANNA GO!!! HAVE 4WD, WILL NOT DIVULGE LOCATION; HAVE ABSOLUTE RESPECT FOR ANTIQUITIES. A TEAM??? I WANNA GO!!!! I CAN GO NOW, BUT NEED TO BE BACK BEFORE MAR. 26. (or go after Mar. 26).


This feature has been turned over to David K. He has everything he needs to know where to go and what to look for. I just wish I could go :(
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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 09:51 AM


Images removed on purpose. I got enough interest I didn't want them posted any longer.
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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 10:59 AM
elbeau


Quote:
Originally posted by David K
PS, to prevent the Nomad page from stretching too wide rerquiring sideways scrolling, reduce the image size to a max. of 800 pixels wide. Yours is 1269 pixels wide... I need to go to work, but I will check back this afternoon! I sent a note to Doug to see if he can resize the image for you, if you aren't sure how.


elbeau
send me your pictures to deno@kissmygrass.com and I'll send em back to you re-sized.....if u wish.




Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 11:07 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez

elbeau
send me your pictures to deno@kissmygrass.com and I'll send em back to you re-sized.....if u wish.


No thanks. I didn't remove them because of the size requirement. They served their purpose and I got the interest I wanted, so I removed them.
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[*] posted on 3-2-2011 at 11:26 AM
Mission Hunt


Quote:
Originally posted by elbeau
I didn't remove them because of the size requirement. They served their purpose and I got the interest I wanted, so I removed them.


Of all the people to hunt for the mission site Jack Swords and David K would be the ones to do it. Both are true Baja explorers and know what to look for and who to contact if anything is found. They can be trusted.
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