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Stephanie Jackter
Senior Nomad
Posts: 566
Registered: 11-3-2002
Location: Arizona
Member Is Offline
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Mexican school children not being allowed to enter US without visas.
I'm happy to be the first to express my views on this new board, which is specifically for those of us who wish to discuss politics that pertain to
Baja California. Thank you, Doug, for providing a much needed forum. If any of you have any questions about what Doug's rules are, please see his
posts on the subject in the general forum......
As Jesse brought up before being deleted on the Amigos board, it is a terrible day for American foreign policy when school children on field trips and
sick people are kept out of this country due to newly imposed visa restrictions. It is a policy that should be " re-thunk" (to say the least), at the
highest levels of American government. The I.N.S. has run amock in its war against terrorism with this latest edict.
I don't have the link to the San Diego Tribune article on this fiasco handy, but will try to post it this evening when I have more time to track it
down.
I'm hoping that those of you who have been forced off of the Amigos board will join me here on this new forum.- Stephanie Jackter
[Edited on 11-15-2002 by Stephanie Jackter]
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Stephanie Jackter
Senior Nomad
Posts: 566
Registered: 11-3-2002
Location: Arizona
Member Is Offline
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Ooops. Yes, I meant to put Mexican children in the header. Here's the link that Jesse put on the other board that was so rudely wiped out. -
Stephanie
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/20021031-9999_8n31...
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64490
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Truth here please...
1) Baja resident Heather (married to a Mexican and has Mexican children), has posted on Amigos that the school field trips were being used by Mexicans
to sneak family members into Los Angeles, as they weren't returning to Mexico on the school busses.
Like anywhere, if you abuse your privilages... you lose your privilages (a good friend recently gave me that quote)!
2) Speaking of abuse: Nobody was forced off Amigos... two people continually refused to abide by repeated requests of the board's hosts (who pay for
the site) to stop their political postings that did little more than serve to create disharmony on Amigos de Baja. After numerous warnings and the
loss of many regulars (who could not stomach what these two were doing), the board's host finally banned them both. One of these two came to Amigos
after being banned by Fred's board when she refused to stop posting political (non Baja travel) agenda articles. Thanks to Baja Nomad, there is this
political board. However, that does not mean the truth is no longer necessary.
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Minnow
Banned
Posts: 1110
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: Lost Wages
Member Is Offline
Mood: Embarrased Harry Reid is a Nevadan
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Politics
Ok steph here we are, lets hear something important.
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Stephanie Jackter
Senior Nomad
Posts: 566
Registered: 11-3-2002
Location: Arizona
Member Is Offline
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Minnow and David K., You are two people to whom I will never speak again, except to make it clear to others that I won't respond. You can say what
you like, but you've gotten your last rise out of me and are now censored from my world. I think your behavior has been abominable. You deal with it
with your conscience. I have no problem dealing with mine. You argued that politics were not appropriate on the "amigos" board and now you are
following me here so that you can argue politics and slam me with more lies! Well, slam away. I know who my enemies are now and I will no longer
invite you to my table by responding to your slams of any kind. Good night and Good life. - Stephanie Jackter
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64490
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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What lies, Steph? I asked that only truth be told, no matter what political theory you fall for or believe in. You liberals are supposed to be 'open
minded' and 'tolerant of other ideas'... what bunk! You get the privilage to post your thoughts, but you can't stand it when the other side speaks.
Resorting to lies and name calling. This board was made for you. Unlike you, I will not try to destroy it just because you are using it. So, practice
some liberal philosphy and don't interfere with our freedom of association on the non-political Amigos de Baja board, anymore. Thank you and
goodnight... Oh, by the way, weren't the election results just wonderful last night :-)! signed: a member of the majority... hey Doug, this political
board just might be a lot of fun, thank you!
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Braulio
Nomad
Posts: 321
Registered: 11-7-2002
Member Is Offline
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Stephanie -
First off let me say that I agree with your position on the Mexican school kids field trip.but- I'm also aware from personal experience that the trips
were occasionally used to smuggle kids into the US. Two years ago I was involved in a series of field trips from Mexicali (my girl friends' kids
went). It was a standing joke among the parents and administrators about whether or not all the kids would make it back. I'd say at that time that
probably one trip in three came back with less kids.
However I really think that something could have been done short of something this drastic - as it stands everybody loses.
On the other hand I don't think that US Immigration sits around trying to think of new ways to hassle or discriminate against Mexican school kids -
in Calexico the vast majority of the US agents ARE Mexican.
A couple more thoughts:
1) Minnow and David K signed on here way before you.
2) I hope you're not basing your views exclusively on what you read in the papers - as I recall from my college days the people majoring in journalism
were usually those that couldn't make it in other more rigorous fields. Journalists just aren't all that bright to begin with. Engineers tend to be
bright AND good-looking.
3) I noticed one of the first things you did on this board was inquire as to what type of posts were acceptable - why couldn't you have done that on
Eric's board?
4) Are you the one that made the threats and hacked Eric's board? I assumed it was an imposter using your name (God know why). Please answer
Stephanie. I hope I haven't been deceived about your character/intentions.
Chau Stephanie.
Braulio
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reefrocket
Nomad
Posts: 224
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: Idaho
Member Is Offline
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Hey minnow
Minnow I know about the problems on AMIGOs being hacked and hacked here.
Do you have any proof stef was involved or is this just payback. I had suspected that it was our Canadian noise. As he is the much more likely
candidate with his lack of maturity.
Everyone including me should be delighted with this new board and the political 'arena' (theres a place for everyone) lets chill on the personal
stuff, I feel its OK to dispute an opinion but leave the other stuff out. Have you noticed that CHOPY isn't posting anymore?
He was an interesting source of info. and hope he will find his way here. I wish that the discussion on drugs that was going on a while ago on AMIGOs
(the only polite and well spoken discussion {that was deleted}) had been able to get over here!
This is something for DK. I saw you joy at the election out come. Even though I voted a straight REP. ticket, I am going to reserve my joy to see the
out come of our middle EAST comming fracas as I have a son in the military and DO NOT want to see his name on a new 'WALL' in DC.
I do not know the solution to the 'SADASS-WHOS INSAIN' problem but feel the comming conflict is about BIG OIL interest more than anything. If this
country would devote half the bucks that are going to be going to this present conflict to the BIO research on BIO diesel and lubricants the USA could
reduce its' dependancy on kissing 'burros' all over the place.
And would really help the FARMERS (you know the ones that feed the world NOT SAFEWAYS, VONS, or stores) through out the americas not just the USA
(vested interest here as I would like to have enough $$ to afford fuel to get TO 'BAJA' (sorry JIM S. just can't find
a BETTER word that invokes the IDEA of the geographic area)) and it would reduce the air pollution dramatically. Wouldn't it be nice to be caught
behind a Big Rig and smell french fries rather than diesel?
thought for the day -- "Democracy must be something more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner." --James Bovard (1994)
Guday Mates
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Stephanie Jackter
Senior Nomad
Posts: 566
Registered: 11-3-2002
Location: Arizona
Member Is Offline
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Braulio- Use your brains. Whether you agreed with my politics or not, did I ever seem like the type of person who would do anything malicious to
anybody? Geez, I don't even cuss. If you believe that garbage they're throwing, then maybe it's YOU who needs to examine your own intelligence. I
always assumed you were a lot brighter than most of them, but maybe not.
On the issue of children staying behind when they go on field trips, Is that connected with terrorism. Stopping the school trips was ostensibly an
anti-terrrorism move. C'mon. Also, does our relationship with our closest friend, (Mexico), play in this decision at all. Do you understand the
black eye it gives us with the people down there that adore us when we say that their poorest school children can't come on field trips and their sick
people can't come for medical help unless it's a dying family member or imminent life and death situation. With this edict, we cut off our nose to
spite our face, gaining neither an advantage against terrorism or any good will from our neighbors. Lose/Lose. What good government!
Doug (or whoever's moderating) - Now we're getting into what will be enforced on this board. Without a shred of proof, David K has come on this board
and accused me of malicious hacking. That is defamation of character. Now I don't have any problem with you leaving that up, as I have always stated
that I'm better off with free speech than the kind of thing that has just occurred on Eric's board. But if you do intend to keep this board clean of
completely unfounded personal attacks, I would say that now is the time to start as everything they're saying about me is a lie. I do not intend to
"tit for tat" with them or even to ever speak to them again. I'm afraid it's up to you to either stop this nonsense or give up on your defamation
clause right from the start. Your choice, of course.
Grover- I agree with your last post completely. I hope your son and our country both stay safe. I am scared for all at this point. And keep those
thoughts for the day coming. Today's quote is right on the money!
Last but not least, a lot of people, not just Chopy, have disappeared from the other board but not shown up here. If anybody knows how to contact
Jeff LeGrue or Alex or any others who are missing, I would appreciate being able to extend to them the invitation to join us here, but haven't been
allowed to do that at the other board.- Stephanie
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Stephanie Jackter
Senior Nomad
Posts: 566
Registered: 11-3-2002
Location: Arizona
Member Is Offline
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OOOOPPPS, My response to Grover in my last post should have actually been to Reefrocket. Excuse me, folks.- Stephanie
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Stephanie Jackter
Senior Nomad
Posts: 566
Registered: 11-3-2002
Location: Arizona
Member Is Offline
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Grover- The jogger ruse is a funny one. How ironic that a hard working Mexican can disguise himself as a non working American and get in.
Also, I understand your point about not indulging what you call "the trolls" and believe you are correct. Personal attackers will simply no longer
get a response. Thanks for making the answer so clear.- Stephanie
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Braulio
Nomad
Posts: 321
Registered: 11-7-2002
Member Is Offline
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Stepanie -
Use my brains? - What - are you accusing me of being a jounalist?
I didn't think you had hacked anything - L - you needed instruction on how to navegate around these forums. I just thought the question had to be
asked. You were being accused and said you weren't going to communicate with your accusers so I thought I'd just acknowledge the elefante en el
sal?n. Believe me - if I had wanted to offend there would have been no ambiguity.
Your post kind of confused me - we agree on the school tour thing - maybe you were addressing someone else. However I do think that every country has
the right to maintain it's borders - terrorism or no. My position is that this whole thing could have been averted. With as much money that changes
hands on these tours ($50 or so a head) it seem like the tour operators could take out a bond or something pending safe return of all kids. There's a
better way other than to shut things down.
To say that Mexico and the US are the best of friends on either the macro or the micro level is really kind of naive. Aout the only thing we share is
a long border. Have you followed the Iraq vote in the US? See what Mexico's role is? Mexico is constantly shooting itself in the foot trying to
take aim at Uncle Sam - care to discuss Pemex?
I've attended school in both Mexico and the US as both a child and an adult and have spent most of my working adult life in Mexico - believe me there
is no love lost for Americans in Mexico. There is certainly a type of respect for Americans and the wealth/power that exists there - but love or
adoration - nope - ain't none. I suspect that you are treated special because you are a woman - or that your experience is somewhat limited.
I'm digressing.
Take care Stephanie.
Braulio
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64490
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Oh Steph, there you go again! I never accused you of 'malicious hacking' of Amigos. I said, "Unlike you, I will not try to destroy this board, because
you are using it". Of course I meant constant posting of complaints or inviting other to here because 'Amigos censors', etc. I don't condone hacking a
site, even a liberal one! But, it sure is interesting how you were specific on how to destroy a site ("malicious hacking")???
Do you want to tell the folks here how I (this morning) I emailed you a link to the turtle rescue program so you could actually do something you claim
to be concerned about, and that I asked for a truce?
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reefrocket
Nomad
Posts: 224
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: Idaho
Member Is Offline
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Steph & Braulio, I am in complete agreement that the children visit and medical ban were as well thought out as the as Howard Hues (sp) 'spruce goose'
and is reprehensible. There should have been a way to control this and negotiated before implmenting.
I am in agreement with Braulio on how much the USA and its' people are LOVED! As a country we have 'friend' and neighbors (always best to get along
with neigbors) but NO country LOVES us.
note to Steph I read your post to administrator I don't believe that DK actually said you 'HACK' AMIGOs there might have been an INFRENAL that you
caused the disruption of the board and many deletions. So NO actual ??? (slander) isn't the word, I guess it would be 'Liable'(defamation of
character) as it is in print.
note to Braulio - "Engineers tend to be bright AND good-looking." Isn't that guy in the funnies with the flat head an 'engineer'? Just a friendly
jab
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Minnow
Banned
Posts: 1110
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: Lost Wages
Member Is Offline
Mood: Embarrased Harry Reid is a Nevadan
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Yes, the children program
needs to be worked out. This is a horrible loss to all those innocent Mexican children who will not get to know Mickey Mouse. What about the Zoo?
How about Sea world? I'm sorry but this is not educational stuff that people can't do without. I am against animals in cages. Period. The border
citizens are still allowed to come and buy necessities, that is what is important.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64490
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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U.S. school children not allowed south of Maneadero without visas!
Imagine the inhumanity of Mexico City to require visas (also called 'tourist card') of every non-Mexican child & adult who wish to visit the natural
wonders of central and southern Baja California. Previous to 2000, these were free. But, an undue financial burden was added by charging twenty or
more dollars for these visas. The poor school children who may never see a boojum, old mission, or gecko are the real losers. How long before the U.S.
retaliates by requiring Mexican school kids to get visas? Oh the shame!
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Braulio
Nomad
Posts: 321
Registered: 11-7-2002
Member Is Offline
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Minnow -
How're you doing?
Of course the trips have nothing to do with education. Mexico already has a much better K-12 system than either the US or (especially) California.
Students transferring from a US school to Mexico are always set back a year or two - I know of no exceptions - and it ain't just language. Standards
for the 3 r's are simply higher in Mexico.
If the exchange was happening for educational reasons then they should carting American kids down south to see how their Mexican counterparts are
outperforming them while attending classes only half day and having 40 students to a class.
I like to see the Mexican kids tour sites in the US just so they can see first hand how a first class system works - just riding on an interstate can
be beneficial. Whether they go to Disneyland or Balboa Park it's all the same to me.
Their are other advantages - like it or not the countries have to deal with one another and kids are tomorrow's leaders. A little postive
indoctrination at an early age can go a long way - likewise with negative stuff.
Comparing the school systems is another theme altogether - don't know if we want to go there on this thread.
Take care Minnow.
Braulio
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Braulio
Nomad
Posts: 321
Registered: 11-7-2002
Member Is Offline
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David K -
You're comparing apples to oranges of course. American kids can visit Mexico without a visa within about the same geographic range as the Mexican
school tours were going but without the visa. Further into either country is a different ball game.
I also don't know that the visas given to the Mexican kids were free - theyre charged about 50 bucks for a trip to Sea World - it's all-inclusive and
I don't know what the breakdown was. I guess I could check on it but frankly I'm too lazy and this subject is beginning to bore me.
'The position that you and Minnow are taking - that even notwithstanding security/illegal immigration considerations you guys just plain don't want
the Mexicans kids to visit the US kind of surprises me.
I guess we've just proved that we all do indeed have anos.
Take care man.
Braulio
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64490
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Braulio, I was telling a joke.. a mirror post of Stephanie's original post. I don't have anything against Mexican kids and I don't think Mexicans have
anything against American kids. The fact is NOW both countries are asking for visas... rather than just Mexico. Ours may be harder to get and needed
right at the border, but it was us that was attacked.
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Minnow
Banned
Posts: 1110
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: Lost Wages
Member Is Offline
Mood: Embarrased Harry Reid is a Nevadan
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Mexican schools
I agree Mexican schools are far better. They actually teach the BIBLE! I'm still not convinced americanizing them is going to make them better
people. It might however give them a chance to look into the eyes of the competition.
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