Mengano
Banned
Posts: 1238
Registered: 9-26-2011
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Wherein a schizophrenic meets quacks at Sanoviv Medical Institute in Rosarito
This is a post from a person on TripAdvisor about the Sanoviv Medical Institute in Rosarito. The person writing the report is obviously schizophrenic
(hypochondria), however this did not prevent the quacks at Sanoviv from cleaning him out of his money along with cleaning out his G-I tract.
| Quote: | Safety of Sanoviv Medical Institute in Rosarito, Mexico
Dec 24, 2011, 11:00 AM
I got very very ill at Sanoviv, and nearly died. I saw things that should be on 60 Minutes. I believe strongly in holistic medicine, but medicine this
wasn't.
Here is part of the story, in a letter I wrote to Dr. Wentz who never had the courtesy to reply:
In March of 2004, I decided, after much deliberation of clinics throughout North America, to come to Sanoviv to save my life. My doctor in British
Columbia suggested it, and although I had a dream one night to head to Hippocrates, I followed Dr. Cline’s suggestion to come to Sanoviv.
With my medical background from the top veterinary school in Canada, my journalism skills, and because I’d adored Usana and needed a place that
provide colonics plus IVs, I weighed out my options and followed his advice.
I had severe environmental illness (multiple chemical sensitivity), heavy metal poisoning, and was declared, after live blood cell microscopy and
other tests at the clinic, the most toxic patient Sanoviv had ever seen (said my doctor, Dr. Battista).
Within the first couple of days at Sanoviv, after spending $10,000 hard earned dollars, I looked forward to medical care which would match the ranks
of Johns Hopkins, the Mayo Clinic or Hippocrates.
As my lead levels were way off the chart, I was having severe panic attacks and needed proper, immediate care. Until now, I have not been well enough
to write this letter.
There were fine people I encountered, such as the wonderful colonic therapist, Yvonne in the spa, an incredible psychologist and meditation teacher,
but you should know the other side –it could fill a New York Times or 60 Minutes expose.
Because I believe in your good intentions as a human being and as the head of Sanoviv and Usana, I surmise you will be grateful that I am informing
you of exactly what happened at your renowned clinic…there are several more breaches of professionalism I saw regarding other patients…I just have
room to include mine in this letter. _____________________________________________________________________
-The head doctor (I believe it was Dr. Vazquez). who wouldn’t look at the fat medical I brought to help the doctors create a history for me; they told
me that “Sanoviv’s doctors are the best in the world and Sanoviv doesn’t have to look at any of my Canadian test results.
-Because of my severe hypoglycemia and low blood sugar I needed extra protein and when Dr. Battista kindly asked the kitchen a few times to do this,
they steadfastly refused from Day 1 to carry though with is request, telling me that it was up to the nutritionist to decide (a second, older and
wiser nutritionist candidly informed me one night that I shouldn’t even be there but should be building my body instead of breaking it down).
-Dr. Caruba kindly informed me, in the IV room, several nights later, that she was right and I should heed her advice.
-On about Day 3, because Dr. Battista thought my panic attacks were indicative of schizophrenia, he called in a young psychiatrist. After a half hour
of listening to me (a very toxic person having panic attacks), she declared me schizophrenic!
-Dr. Vasquez then set up a meeting in a closed, windowless, white room, where we sat in a circle with Dr. Battista and the psychologist; Vaszquez told
me to take the schizophrenic drugs and when I said I wouldn’t, he literally stuck his face in mine, yelled at me that if I didn’t do this I’d be
thrown out, told me that I didn’t know what I was talking about. that I was an imbecile, and that I better listen to him. Battista told me he wouldn’t
be at all surprised if I wrote a letter of complaint.
-Aside from the mental abuse I endured, paranoid schizophrenic is a very serious label to give someone. So, Dr. Battista provided me with
schizophrenic tranquilizers which he said I must take or that they’d send me home.
-I had seen a renowned psychiatrist, Dr. Abram Hoffer, in Canada, a man you must have heard of. I’ve attached a book review I wrote about his memoirs
in the article enclosed (written for one of my clients, Canada’s national newspaper).
-In the l950’s , not only did he discover high doses of niacin cured schizophrenics, but he founded the Canadian Schizophrenia Foundation, the Huxley
Institute of Biosocial Research, the International Schizophrenia Foundation, and more.
-I’d seen Dr. Hoffer (who had cured Margot Kidder) one month prior, and he’d me non-schizophrenic (only the HOD Diagnostic Test can accurately
diagnose schizophrenia).
-In a meeting arranged by Vasquez, and attended by Dr. Battista and the psychologist as well, Vasquez proceeded to remind me that they didn’t have to
listen to any of my doctors, that yours are the best in the world, and with his face almost pressed against mine, proceeded to yell at me and threaten
me regarding the drugs he threatened I must take. Later, Dr. Battista and the psychologist admitted to me their abhorrence.
-Against my adult wishes and privacy rights, my parents were phoned and misinformed that I was paranoid schizophrenic (my mother proceeded to tell the
entire family the false diagnosis.and ordered me to return home (where she was going to throw me in the Clarke Institute—Canada’s major mental
hospital).
-I phoned Dr. Hoffer who, a few days later, would fax Sanoviv a letter confirming I was not schizophrenic.
-In the meantime, other patients there were shocked at how I was being treated and told me I should leave. I didn’t though because I’d spent the
money.
-However, I was becoming severely depleted with mineral loss from diarrhea, and lack of nutrition Then, I was given a sauna (although told by the top
doctors in environmental medicine that I should not yet have), a long warm seaweed wrap, and not told to drink extra water.
-The next day, I awoke with severe dehydration, drank 5 litres of water, and may have had a herxheimer reaction (something the clinic vowed I would
never get there).the world looked as if it was outside of a large bubble and I was in the fishbowl. A friend told me it’s similar to a bad LSD trip.
-Patients who witnessed this told me my face looked swollen and that I looked severely different. Breast cancer patients were taking care of me
instead of your doctors. In the afternoon, I secretly made a desperate phone call to my naturopath in Canada who told me to go on an electrolyte IV
immediately.
-The lab, completely freaked out by now as to what happened to me, heeded my request (I didn’t tell them it was the naturopath’s request) and put me
on an electrolyte IV. After an hour, my world reverted to almost normal.
-I say almost because I was taken off a bit too early, heard and felt a huge “bang” in my head, and awoke the next morning with a huge headache and a
swollen face with numbness that still hasn’t gone away. My brain function has also not been the same after that.
On the way to the airport, I gave a note and gift, in an envelope, to the driver to give to the person who had helped me most—the colonic
therapist—and when I called her days later I found out it was never given to her.
I find this all not only very strange, but very unprofessional and very disturbing for a health clinic trying to get a good reputation, run by a man
who has a good reputation for both himself and for Usana.. It is unfortunate, because I wanted to give good mention to Sanoviv in the book I’m writing
about how to heal from multiple chemical sensitivity.
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http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g150774-i256-k4632945-S...
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Hypochondriac = Schizophrenic...???
A hypochondriac is a far cry from a schizophrenic...needing protein is not necessarily the treatment for low blood sugar (hypoglycemia)...depending
how low it is...glucose is what the body needs...again, on another smear campaign..you might not believe in holistic medicine..but some people swear
by it... | Quote: | Originally posted by Mengano
This is a post from a person on TripAdvisor about the Sanoviv Medical Institute in Rosarito. The person writing the report is obviously schizophrenic
(hypochondria), however this did not prevent the quacks at Sanoviv from cleaning him out of his money along with cleaning out his G-I tract.
| Quote: | Safety of Sanoviv Medical Institute in Rosarito, Mexico
Dec 24, 2011, 11:00 AM
I got very very ill at Sanoviv, and nearly died. I saw things that should be on 60 Minutes. I believe strongly in holistic medicine, but medicine this
wasn't.
Here is part of the story, in a letter I wrote to Dr. Wentz who never had the courtesy to reply:
In March of 2004, I decided, after much deliberation of clinics throughout North America, to come to Sanoviv to save my life. My doctor in British
Columbia suggested it, and although I had a dream one night to head to Hippocrates, I followed Dr. Cline’s suggestion to come to Sanoviv.
With my medical background from the top veterinary school in Canada, my journalism skills, and because I’d adored Usana and needed a place that
provide colonics plus IVs, I weighed out my options and followed his advice.
I had severe environmental illness (multiple chemical sensitivity), heavy metal poisoning, and was declared, after live blood cell microscopy and
other tests at the clinic, the most toxic patient Sanoviv had ever seen (said my doctor, Dr. Battista).
Within the first couple of days at Sanoviv, after spending $10,000 hard earned dollars, I looked forward to medical care which would match the ranks
of Johns Hopkins, the Mayo Clinic or Hippocrates.
As my lead levels were way off the chart, I was having severe panic attacks and needed proper, immediate care. Until now, I have not been well enough
to write this letter.
There were fine people I encountered, such as the wonderful colonic therapist, Yvonne in the spa, an incredible psychologist and meditation teacher,
but you should know the other side –it could fill a New York Times or 60 Minutes expose.
Because I believe in your good intentions as a human being and as the head of Sanoviv and Usana, I surmise you will be grateful that I am informing
you of exactly what happened at your renowned clinic…there are several more breaches of professionalism I saw regarding other patients…I just have
room to include mine in this letter. _____________________________________________________________________
-The head doctor (I believe it was Dr. Vazquez). who wouldn’t look at the fat medical I brought to help the doctors create a history for me; they told
me that “Sanoviv’s doctors are the best in the world and Sanoviv doesn’t have to look at any of my Canadian test results.
-Because of my severe hypoglycemia and low blood sugar I needed extra protein and when Dr. Battista kindly asked the kitchen a few times to do this,
they steadfastly refused from Day 1 to carry though with is request, telling me that it was up to the nutritionist to decide (a second, older and
wiser nutritionist candidly informed me one night that I shouldn’t even be there but should be building my body instead of breaking it down).
-Dr. Caruba kindly informed me, in the IV room, several nights later, that she was right and I should heed her advice.
-On about Day 3, because Dr. Battista thought my panic attacks were indicative of schizophrenia, he called in a young psychiatrist. After a half hour
of listening to me (a very toxic person having panic attacks), she declared me schizophrenic!
-Dr. Vasquez then set up a meeting in a closed, windowless, white room, where we sat in a circle with Dr. Battista and the psychologist; Vaszquez told
me to take the schizophrenic drugs and when I said I wouldn’t, he literally stuck his face in mine, yelled at me that if I didn’t do this I’d be
thrown out, told me that I didn’t know what I was talking about. that I was an imbecile, and that I better listen to him. Battista told me he wouldn’t
be at all surprised if I wrote a letter of complaint.
-Aside from the mental abuse I endured, paranoid schizophrenic is a very serious label to give someone. So, Dr. Battista provided me with
schizophrenic tranquilizers which he said I must take or that they’d send me home.
-I had seen a renowned psychiatrist, Dr. Abram Hoffer, in Canada, a man you must have heard of. I’ve attached a book review I wrote about his memoirs
in the article enclosed (written for one of my clients, Canada’s national newspaper).
-In the l950’s , not only did he discover high doses of niacin cured schizophrenics, but he founded the Canadian Schizophrenia Foundation, the Huxley
Institute of Biosocial Research, the International Schizophrenia Foundation, and more.
-I’d seen Dr. Hoffer (who had cured Margot Kidder) one month prior, and he’d me non-schizophrenic (only the HOD Diagnostic Test can accurately
diagnose schizophrenia).
-In a meeting arranged by Vasquez, and attended by Dr. Battista and the psychologist as well, Vasquez proceeded to remind me that they didn’t have to
listen to any of my doctors, that yours are the best in the world, and with his face almost pressed against mine, proceeded to yell at me and threaten
me regarding the drugs he threatened I must take. Later, Dr. Battista and the psychologist admitted to me their abhorrence.
-Against my adult wishes and privacy rights, my parents were phoned and misinformed that I was paranoid schizophrenic (my mother proceeded to tell the
entire family the false diagnosis.and ordered me to return home (where she was going to throw me in the Clarke Institute—Canada’s major mental
hospital).
-I phoned Dr. Hoffer who, a few days later, would fax Sanoviv a letter confirming I was not schizophrenic.
-In the meantime, other patients there were shocked at how I was being treated and told me I should leave. I didn’t though because I’d spent the
money.
-However, I was becoming severely depleted with mineral loss from diarrhea, and lack of nutrition Then, I was given a sauna (although told by the top
doctors in environmental medicine that I should not yet have), a long warm seaweed wrap, and not told to drink extra water.
-The next day, I awoke with severe dehydration, drank 5 litres of water, and may have had a herxheimer reaction (something the clinic vowed I would
never get there).the world looked as if it was outside of a large bubble and I was in the fishbowl. A friend told me it’s similar to a bad LSD trip.
-Patients who witnessed this told me my face looked swollen and that I looked severely different. Breast cancer patients were taking care of me
instead of your doctors. In the afternoon, I secretly made a desperate phone call to my naturopath in Canada who told me to go on an electrolyte IV
immediately.
-The lab, completely freaked out by now as to what happened to me, heeded my request (I didn’t tell them it was the naturopath’s request) and put me
on an electrolyte IV. After an hour, my world reverted to almost normal.
-I say almost because I was taken off a bit too early, heard and felt a huge “bang” in my head, and awoke the next morning with a huge headache and a
swollen face with numbness that still hasn’t gone away. My brain function has also not been the same after that.
On the way to the airport, I gave a note and gift, in an envelope, to the driver to give to the person who had helped me most—the colonic
therapist—and when I called her days later I found out it was never given to her.
I find this all not only very strange, but very unprofessional and very disturbing for a health clinic trying to get a good reputation, run by a man
who has a good reputation for both himself and for Usana.. It is unfortunate, because I wanted to give good mention to Sanoviv in the book I’m writing
about how to heal from multiple chemical sensitivity.
|
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g150774-i256-k4632945-S... |
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Mengano
Banned
Posts: 1238
Registered: 9-26-2011
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
A hypochondriac is a far cry from a schizophrenic...needing protein is not necessarily the treatment for low blood sugar (hypoglycemia)...depending
how low it is...glucose is what the body needs...again, on another smear campaign..you might not believe in holistic medicine..but some people swear
by it.. |
No doctor, hypochondria is a form of paranoid schizophrenia built around a framework where the patient targets his own body. It is characterized by a
cycle of intrusive thoughts followed by compulsive checking. The doctors at Sanoviv actually got the diagnosis correct (in my opinion) and even tried
to commence the proper treatment regimen with antipsychotic medication. They then canceled out any good they would have done be reinforcing the
patient's delusions by "treating" him for heavy metals. Wouldn't heavy metals show up on a blood test? Of course the doctor putting his face in front
of the patient and telling him he is an imbecile probably didn't help.
That patient needed psychotherapy and medications, instead Sanoviv took $10,000 from him to perform enemas and seaweed wraps.
And I don't care how many people swear by holistic medicine. The reason why Sanoviv is in Mexico is because the quackery they practice would get them
jailed in the US.
If you look up the director of that clinic, Myron Wentz, you will find he is not a medical doctor but a PhD. He is a defendant in a lawsuit for a
multi-level marketing company in the US (e.g. a ponzi scheme.)
If you believe in holistic medicine, you will also have to believe that somehow apocryphal comments from people on how they were cured are more valid
than controlled medical tests.
You will have to believe that somehow, in spite of the fact that there are no scientific studies showing any merit to the therapies these quacks tout,
they work anyway, and the rest of the entire medical profession is just stupid.
Sanoviv, and many more like it in Mexico, are parasites that prey upon sick and dying people by giving them false hope to suck the last dollars out of
their pockets. This clinic is in Mexico because it would be illegal in the US. This clinic is in Mexico because they are immune to malpractice
lawsuits in Mexico.
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Maderita
Senior Nomad
Posts: 680
Registered: 12-14-2008
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
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Hypochondria is listed in the DSM IV (psychiatric diagnostic manual) under somatoform disorders. It is not a form of schizophrenia, though some with
schizophrenia may experience some of the same syptoms. In fact, schizophrenia must be ruled out to make the diagnosis.
Yes, there are some who think hypochondria is a form of paranoid schizophrenia, though that is not the predominate thought in the mental health field.
Hypochondria is IMHO, more closely related to high anxiety and obsessive- compulsive thought, such as OCD or body dysmorphia. Treatment with
psychotherapy, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) in particular, is usually helpful in managing those conditions. Antidepressants (SSRI's at the
dosage for treating OCD) could also be helpful. A major tranquilizer/antipsychotic probably would reduce acute distress, but that is just a temporary
BandAid. A high dosage of antipsychotic meds would have kept the patient calm, passive, and the perfect patient for scam artists to exploit.
Hypochondriacs area perfect target for quacks. When mainstream/traditional medical explanations don't provide the answer, desperate people will look
for an alternative answer. Cancer patients seem susceptible to believing in laetrile or "black boxes." Hypochondriacs seek colonics and believe in
heavy metal poisoning and "liver" ailments.
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Who's the Quack here...
Thanks so much for your reference to the DSM-IV...I was just about to quote it after rereading it. While Mr. Mangano appears to be intelligent and
writes very well, it is obvious his medical expertise is limited. The golden rule in medicine is to quote your sources, especially when making a
blanket statement that hypochondria is a form of paranoid schizophrenia. A "quack" in my opinion is a person who is trying to pass off medical
knowledge with sweeping statements that are issued with an authoritative air..and give no basis or references. Better stick with quoting reviews from
Trip-Advisor...
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 19487
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Online
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mengano
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
A hypochondriac is a far cry from a schizophrenic...needing protein is not necessarily the treatment for low blood sugar (hypoglycemia)...depending
how low it is...glucose is what the body needs...again, on another smear campaign..you might not believe in holistic medicine..but some people swear
by it.. |
No doctor, hypochondria is a form of paranoid schizophrenia built around a framework where the patient targets his own body. It is characterized by a
cycle of intrusive thoughts followed by compulsive checking. The doctors at Sanoviv actually got the diagnosis correct (in my opinion) and even tried
to commence the proper treatment regimen with antipsychotic medication. They then canceled out any good they would have done be reinforcing the
patient's delusions by "treating" him for heavy metals. Wouldn't heavy metals show up on a blood test? Of course the doctor putting his face in front
of the patient and telling him he is an imbecile probably didn't help.
That patient needed psychotherapy and medications, instead Sanoviv took $10,000 from him to perform enemas and seaweed wraps.
And I don't care how many people swear by holistic medicine. The reason why Sanoviv is in Mexico is because the quackery they practice would get them
jailed in the US.
If you look up the director of that clinic, Myron Wentz, you will find he is not a medical doctor but a PhD. He is a defendant in a lawsuit for a
multi-level marketing company in the US (e.g. a ponzi scheme.)
If you believe in holistic medicine, you will also have to believe that somehow apocryphal comments from people on how they were cured are more valid
than controlled medical tests.
You will have to believe that somehow, in spite of the fact that there are no scientific studies showing any merit to the therapies these quacks tout,
they work anyway, and the rest of the entire medical profession is just stupid.
Sanoviv, and many more like it in Mexico, are parasites that prey upon sick and dying people by giving them false hope to suck the last dollars out of
their pockets. This clinic is in Mexico because it would be illegal in the US. This clinic is in Mexico because they are immune to malpractice
lawsuits in Mexico. |
chuck:
perhaps your time at western dental may makes you an expert in fleecing gullible patients!
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Mengano
Banned
Posts: 1238
Registered: 9-26-2011
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
A "quack" in my opinion is a person who is trying to pass off medical knowledge with sweeping statements that are issued with an authoritative
air..and give no basis or references. |
You are incorrect in your definition of a quack.
Quackery is a derogatory term used to describe the promotion of unproven or fraudulent medical practices. It is kind of like when a licensed medical
doctor recommends holistic medicine as a valid and effective course of treatment when there exists no empirical studies to prove it. In the US, a
medical doctor sued for malpractice is required to demonstrate he or she used the standard of care in the US in order to overcome a malpractice claim.
Are you saying, good doctor, that holistic medicine will pass the standard of care benchmark in the US? If you do not believe holistic medicine will
survive a standard of care challenge in the US, perhaps you should rethink your recommendation?
Do doctors in Mexico take the Hippocratic Oath? Especially that part which says, "I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to
my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone.."
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad as hell
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Although being Hypochondric is not considered a Schizophrenic mood disorder to most mental health officials.
The question is why is Mengano even quoting this TripAdvisor guy if Mengano believes the "TripAdvisor" writer is schziophrenic?
The TripAdvisor" guy doesn't seem like he is all there just from briefing reading his report/review. ( it looks like nut has more problems that just
being an hypocondric)
Why is Mengano quoting a crazy guy?
It looks like Mengano will scrape the bottom of the barrel to make the case that everything in Mexico is bad.
The "TripAdvisor" guy was looking for colonic therapy and it looks like he got his pipes cleaned out just like he wanted, although I personally would
not pay those prices.
The bigger question is why is this "TripAdvisor"guy going into panic attacks, and showing signs of paranoid schizophrenic according to the Mexican
doctors who treated this guy.
Can this TripAdvisor's report even be considered objective if the guy is going into full blown panic attacks with signs of paranoid Schizophrenia?
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Terry28
Senior Nomad
Posts: 825
Registered: 8-25-2007
Location: S.Calif mtns.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Thirsty
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Dudes, this happened over 7 years ago..still relevant??? Probably not.
Mexico!! Where two can live as cheaply as one.....but it costs twice as much.....
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
Member Is Offline
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Peach pit extract aside, consider the source. Mr?????
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Standard of care..
OK here is something to think about...the other day...I was talking to a Mexican doctor who runs a clinic in Mexico..I had told him that a nurse had
given medication to a patient without a Doctor's order and not even discussing the patient with a Doctor...now mind you, this nurse knows alot and did
prescribe correctly for the patient..he has many years experience..so this boss told me, "Yeah, technically, you are right...but it does no good to
chastise anyone here..basically we wait till someone does some harm then we can go after them"...I did do my best and talk directly to the nurse and
he said, 'Yes, I know, I should have cleared it with you first.." WHEW..I guess that means maybe the next time he will feel comfortable asking a
Doctor for an order...my beef is that if the nurse gives something and the Doc doesn't know about it and later...the Doc gives something that could
interact or gives a double dose of the same stuff...well, all I can say is...Standard of care...say WHAT??? | Quote: | Originally posted by Mengano
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
A "quack" in my opinion is a person who is trying to pass off medical knowledge with sweeping statements that are issued with an authoritative
air..and give no basis or references. |
You are incorrect in your definition of a quack.
Quackery is a derogatory term used to describe the promotion of unproven or fraudulent medical practices. It is kind of like when a licensed medical
doctor recommends holistic medicine as a valid and effective course of treatment when there exists no empirical studies to prove it. In the US, a
medical doctor sued for malpractice is required to demonstrate he or she used the standard of care in the US in order to overcome a malpractice claim.
Are you saying, good doctor, that holistic medicine will pass the standard of care benchmark in the US? If you do not believe holistic medicine will
survive a standard of care challenge in the US, perhaps you should rethink your recommendation?
Do doctors in Mexico take the Hippocratic Oath? Especially that part which says, "I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to
my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone.." |
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Quackery
Is obviously not limited to Ducks.
It appears to be common among related Coots (old and otherwise) here.
This whole discussion about Hypochondriacs and Schizophrenics seems a bit NUTS.
IF the two are NOT related, would they then be Mixed-Nuts ?
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Thanks so much for your reference to the DSM-IV...I was just about to quote it after rereading it. While Mr. Mangano appears to be intelligent and
writes very well, it is obvious his medical expertise is limited. The golden rule in medicine is to quote your sources, especially when making a
blanket statement that hypochondria is a form of paranoid schizophrenia. A "quack" in my opinion is a person who is trying to pass off medical
knowledge with sweeping statements that are issued with an authoritative air..and give no basis or references. Better stick with quoting reviews from
Trip-Advisor... |
Well said! I appreciate your clarity.
Iflyfish
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
OK here is something to think about...the other day...I was talking to a Mexican doctor who runs a clinic in Mexico..I had told him that a nurse had
given medication to a patient without a Doctor's order and not even discussing the patient with a Doctor...now mind you, this nurse knows alot and did
prescribe correctly for the patient..he has many years experience..so this boss told me, "Yeah, technically, you are right...but it does no good to
chastise anyone here..basically we wait till someone does some harm then we can go after them"...I did do my best and talk directly to the nurse and
he said, 'Yes, I know, I should have cleared it with you first.." WHEW..I guess that means maybe the next time he will feel comfortable asking a
Doctor for an order...my beef is that if the nurse gives something and the Doc doesn't know about it and later...the Doc gives something that could
interact or gives a double dose of the same stuff...well, all I can say is...Standard of care...say WHAT??? | Quote: | Originally posted by Mengano
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
A "quack" in my opinion is a person who is trying to pass off medical knowledge with sweeping statements that are issued with an authoritative
air..and give no basis or references. |
You are incorrect in your definition of a quack.
Quackery is a derogatory term used to describe the promotion of unproven or fraudulent medical practices. It is kind of like when a licensed medical
doctor recommends holistic medicine as a valid and effective course of treatment when there exists no empirical studies to prove it. In the US, a
medical doctor sued for malpractice is required to demonstrate he or she used the standard of care in the US in order to overcome a malpractice claim.
Are you saying, good doctor, that holistic medicine will pass the standard of care benchmark in the US? If you do not believe holistic medicine will
survive a standard of care challenge in the US, perhaps you should rethink your recommendation?
Do doctors in Mexico take the Hippocratic Oath? Especially that part which says, "I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to
my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone.." |
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Who is the Physician of record the MD or the RN. Up north the nurse would have been fired!!!
Iflyfish
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Hippocratic Oath...
Mr. Mengano mentioned if Mexican doctors take the Hippocratic Oath...yes they do teach that in Medical school in Mexico. However, the nurses have
alot of power in Mexico sometimes more than the Doctors so no Doctor wants to rock the boat...sad but true. I also had the Cruz Roja come to my
clinic today with a pregnant woman who was 9 months pregnant. The driver of the ambulance came to me and said, "Doctor, we want your permission to
leave this woman here." The woman was clearly dehydrated, she was not in labor, so I told them to take her down to the acute care clinic about a 10
minute drive, to get an IV started. We did not have any IV equipment on hand at the Health Center at the moment. So the driver says, "So you are
refusing this woman care?" I said, I did NOT say that. I have done a preliminary exam and she needs IV fluids, please take her there. Next thing I
know, I turn around, and the driver took off without the patient. I called the Cruz Roja to file a complaint, and they said I needed to put a
complaint in writing and submit it in Tijuana. I offered the woman money to take the Microbus or I would drive her, but she said she would take the
bus. Imagine, they asked me what my decision was, and then took off...today was a BAD day!!!
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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colonic therapist ... guess ya have to consider everything ... just saying...
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Mr. Mengano mentioned if Mexican doctors take the Hippocratic Oath...yes they do teach that in Medical school in Mexico. However, the nurses have
alot of power in Mexico sometimes more than the Doctors so no Doctor wants to rock the boat...sad but true. I also had the Cruz Roja come to my
clinic today with a pregnant woman who was 9 months pregnant. The driver of the ambulance came to me and said, "Doctor, we want your permission to
leave this woman here." The woman was clearly dehydrated, she was not in labor, so I told them to take her down to the acute care clinic about a 10
minute drive, to get an IV started. We did not have any IV equipment on hand at the Health Center at the moment. So the driver says, "So you are
refusing this woman care?" I said, I did NOT say that. I have done a preliminary exam and she needs IV fluids, please take her there. Next thing I
know, I turn around, and the driver took off without the patient. I called the Cruz Roja to file a complaint, and they said I needed to put a
complaint in writing and submit it in Tijuana. I offered the woman money to take the Microbus or I would drive her, but she said she would take the
bus. Imagine, they asked me what my decision was, and then took off...today was a BAD day!!! |
Bad day indeed. One has to work with what one has and sometimes it simply is not enough. I guess this is why they call it practice, we do what we can
do, that is all we can do. It is very hard to see suffering on an ongoing basis, there is so much suffering, fortunately there are those days when
miracles occur!
We are honored with your contributions to this forum.
Iflyfish
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Thank you...
Thank you...I do it because I love what I am doing...the unfortunate part is that I do have 15 years worth of experience in the US to compare it
to..and somehow, it seems to miss the mark a bit...
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Mengano
Banned
Posts: 1238
Registered: 9-26-2011
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Thank you...I do it because I love what I am doing...the unfortunate part is that I do have 15 years worth of experience in the US to compare it
to..and somehow, it seems to miss the mark a bit... |
Hey, no switching sides in the middle of a debate.
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