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thebajarunner
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3687
Registered: 9-8-2003
Location: Arizona....."Free at last from crumbling Cali
Member Is Offline
Mood: muy amable
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Bleak future for Baja- what can be done?
There was a similar thread running, but the creator was demanding solutions. My discussion will not make those demands, since I do not see solutions
at hand- just a bleak, and getting more bleak future for our beloved country.
Just returned from two weeks, mostly in LABay. There is no one there.
There are no tourists in Ensenada- you can park anywhere you wish, and store fronts are boarded up or just plain closed. I estimated that road
traffic is less than 50% of what used to be considered "normal."
So, what are the reasons?
First, and foremost is the perception in the US that the "narco-wars" are killing folks right and left and likely they will get caught up in that
mess. Every person I have met in the week I returned, all tanned and happy, has remarked on my great "luck" in surviving this terrible war zone.
How do we fix that perception (when every report of killing out of some random Mexican state just says "more killing in Mexico") We don't. And I do
not see any great movement on the part of the Mexican government to fix it either.
And as long as people fear for their safety, they are not going to venture over the line.
Other issues are of course in play, none as serious as the above:
U.S. economy- make everyone a little more prosperous and the tourists will start venturing farther from home- don't know any Nomads that can fix
that problem.
Gas prices- see previous item.
Lack of good fishing- I remember when you limited early and had all afternoon to relax. Now, thanks to the Japanese invasion of the Sea of Cortez
(no doubt enabled by massive under the table contributions to D.F.) the fishing is lousy. I can catch more fish at our local Sierra lakes, and don't
have to drive a thousand mile to do so. Nomad solution- let's see, nope, no way a Nomad can bring back the fish
Delays at the line- both ways.
I did a thread earlier on the hassle we had trying to get our tourist cards- a country that wanted my dollars would do a better job of getting me
into the country IMO
Headed North at Tecate- line was just to the top of the hill, but nearly two hours to get through. Couple months ago I crossed from Canada at Blaine,
flashed my magic card at the camera box and was sailing down I - 5 in another minute.
Each of these delays, obviously for different reasons, was unacceptable, IMO- Can we fix that one? Lots of luck.
My heart breaks for the locals. When I walk the streets of Ensenada at noon on a Friday and see restaurants with zero patrons- and I am talking good
restaurants, not the holes in the wall. When I see the pangeros lined up at LAB with no customers.... the taco shacks boarded up.... the mercados
only opening for a few hours, and then no customers.
It is sad.....
Mexico- time to heal yourself, not much those of us that love Baja can do to remedy these issues, other than sit and watch things get a lot worse
before they get much better.
Just my thoughts after my annual 2 week trek around the highways and back roads.
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sancho
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2524
Registered: 10-6-2004
Location: OC So Cal
Member Is Offline
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None, Zero of my friends here in So. OC will drive
across the border, these were people who frequented
Baja, say down down to Ensenada. This began
when the Narco's started getting big US press, 4/5yrs
back. They will fly down however.
But these are tourists
who never EMBRACED Baja for what most of us here
love about the Peninsula. Seems visitors
to Baja will stay the regulars who never changed their
opinions about the risk/ safety in Baja. I think some
here may exaggerate the numbers of tourists who
EVER drove any distance into Baja
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captkw
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
Member Is Offline
Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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baja
I'm speechless (1st) K&T
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Ateo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5847
Registered: 7-18-2011
Member Is Offline
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Number one problem is the war on drugs and the media hype/selling the story of carnage and violence. Almost everyone I know used to go to Mexico 5
years ago, friends, parents, everyone. Once the news reported a few events, I could no longer get my surfer friends to go to Mexico cuz their wives
wouldnt let them go anymore. Just my experience. I have 2 friends who'll go still these days and they're both people who aren't afraid of explaining
the risks to their spouses and having enough balls to say "I'm going and I'll be fricking ok". It's sad really.....
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4375
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
Member Is Offline
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I don't worry about the crime but it sure seems like a lot more effort nowadays....getting fmt, crossing the border, more expensive, more permits,
etc.....things used to be much simpler. Anza Borrego is my quick fix for camping and simplicity.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by thebajarunner
There was a similar thread running, but the creator was demanding solutions.
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First and foremost, Dick, I have to assume your reference is to my thread:
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=58480#pid7123...
.......in which case, I demanded nothing. Only asked.
| Quote: |
So, what are the reasons?
First, and foremost is the perception in the US that the "narco-wars" are killing folks right and left and likely they will get caught up in that
mess.
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To that...I call BS. It's old press. US folks have short memories and they arn't being constantly reminded of the mayhem that still exists, and for
the US mind, if it ain't happening right now...it ain't happening.
Sooo....that is almost a current events non-issue in the minds of the traveler...unless their memory is set in stone.
| Quote: |
Delays at the line- both ways.
Can we fix that one? Lots of luck.
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BINGO...........that is the #1 reason.
| Quote: |
My heart breaks for the locals. When I walk the streets of Ensenada at noon on a Friday and see restaurants with zero patrons- and I am talking good
restaurants, not the holes in the wall. When I see the pangeros lined up at LAB with no customers.... the taco shacks boarded up.... the mercados
only opening for a few hours, and then no customers.
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Sooo....wtf are you looking at? A bunch of blind people that just don't get it. It's over. Do something else. Until the border loosens up, and
there's a more free-flowing customer base....it will just get worse. I doubt we'll see that day.
Very sad.....but that's the way it is. Save your memories.
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PCbaja
Junior Nomad
Posts: 79
Registered: 11-26-2009
Member Is Offline
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I dont know. Business has never beeen better renting my house. I have people fly and drive constantly. Some newbies driving all the time. The
fisherman keep coming back every summer and catch lots of fish. None of them seem to complain about all the things everybody complains about here.
Guess everybody sees thing differently.
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Ken Cooke
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8921
Registered: 2-9-2004
Location: Riverside, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Black Trans Lives Matter
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Two weeks ago, there were 500 people standing in the Pedestrian line waiting to cross the San Ysidro POE on a Sunday afternoon. I never thought so
many Americans would still be traveling to Mexico, but there they were.
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
Member Is Offline
Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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Somewhere down in the in the lineup of reasons is the old Mexican axiom of...
"WHEN BUSINESS IS DOWN RAISE PRICES"
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bajadave1
Nomad
Posts: 225
Registered: 7-20-2004
Location: Los Barriles, BCS
Member Is Offline
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TRUE enough
some things don't change. EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15937
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Everchangin'
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i guess we just keep going and be happy for what you have. just think, one day the fear will be gone and it'll take even longer to cross the border.
i'm hoping to have a little better luck at bahia in the fish lip stretching dept....
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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Not everyone goes to Baja for the same reason. High fuel prices, narco fears, the lack of fish, all contribute to the decline.
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bajario
Nomad
Posts: 260
Registered: 1-7-2008
Location: Cardiff
Member Is Offline
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Hasn't the border been a mess since 9/11? That didn't stop the tourists from buying up the coast. W/O disposable income, depreciating assets, lousy
economies, narco wars, you have a recipe for disaster.
For mysefl the answer to the border was the Sentri pass. But I venture south more than a tourist.
I think the alignment of authorities with the cartels (what % I don't know) scare people. If they can't trust authorities to protect them why they
shop for blankets and there name on a grain of rice why bother. I'm not saying all authorities are this way, but from a "tourists" perspective it
could be.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17298
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Online
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by thebajarunner
Bleak future for Baja- what can be done?
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3 options:
1. don't worry, be happy!
2. always look on the bright side of life!
3. vote only for politicians that will prioritize fixing the border wait line mess -- the current US policy of allowing prompt xings only for sentri
is killing economies on both sides of border.
p.s. i think that the homeland security dufuses are now making money off of sentri so they have no intention of killing their golden goose by fixing
the border waits for non-sentri.
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LaRibereña
Nomad
Posts: 110
Registered: 8-27-2003
Location: Tehama, CA & La Ribera, BCS
Member Is Offline
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COME SOUTH, BRO!
US Travel Alerts: (12 Feb 2012)
Northern Mexico
Baja California (north): Tijuana is a major city/travel destination in the Northern portion of Baja California -see attached map to identify its exact
location: You should exercise caution in the northern state of Baja California, particularly at night. Targeted TCO assassinations continue to take
place in Baja California. Turf battles between criminal groups proliferated and resulted in numerous assassinations in areas of Tijuana frequented by
U.S. citizens. Shooting incidents, in which innocent bystanders have been injured, have occurred during daylight hours throughout the city. In one
such incident, an U.S. citizen was shot and seriously wounded. According to the Government of Mexico, as of August 2011, the city’s murder rate was
approximately 20 per 100,000. During 2011, 34 U.S. citizens were the victims of homicide in the state. In the majority of these cases, the killings
appeared to be related to narcotics trafficking.
Baja California (South): Cabo San Lucas is a major city/travel destination in the Southern portion of Baja California -see map (PDF, 286 kb) to
identify its exact location: No advisory is in effect.
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
Member Is Offline
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The first part of fixing the "problem" is to perhaps understand it a little more clearly. For as long as I have been coming to Mexico which started
back in the late 50's and continues up to permanent retirement and relocation to Baja California Sur, I have seen major swings in the tourist numbers.
It was very high for quite some time and people assumed that would stay at that level for ever but for lots of reasons like the crash of the US
Economy, the increase in Violence, upswing on hassles at the border, petty corruption, and changes in social structure in Mexico, the swing to low
usage is certainly noticeable and persistent. I do not see a huge difference in the tourist industry in Cabo San Lucas since that is a fly in, have
fun, and leave kind of tourist destination. While things are slower in terms of building and buying, places like Punta Chivato, Mulege, and the small
bergs from Loreto to Santa Rosalia all seem to be growing at a very small pace, but there are new buildings going up and it seems to be happening at a
pace that everyone and infastructure can keep up with.
Up north in Ensenada and Tijuana I see the difference but I think a lot of the tourist activity there was of a different nature than we experience
down south and would be more subject to the influence of border crossing problems, perceived or real violence, etc., etc., and it will be interesting
to see how they come to cope with the problems.
I hear how poor the fishing is but for me it is what I would consider very good and gives me a great recreational diversion. I may be going a little
further in the boat than I did in the "Old Days" but nothing is ever the same as it was in the "Old Days" so we just adapt and go on.
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durrelllrobert
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7393
Registered: 11-22-2007
Location: Punta Banda BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: thriving in Baja
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Mexico is not alone. Look at how these countries eliminated tourism:
Iraq
Iran
Afganistan
Pakistan
Yurkmenistan
Syria
Libya
Yemen
Somali
etc
Bob Durrell
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thebajarunner
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3687
Registered: 9-8-2003
Location: Arizona....."Free at last from crumbling Cali
Member Is Offline
Mood: muy amable
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by thebajarunner
There was a similar thread running, but the creator was demanding solutions.
|
First and foremost, Dick, I have to assume your reference is to my thread:
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=58480#pid7123...
.......in which case, I demanded nothing. Only asked.
| Quote: |
So, what are the reasons?
First, and foremost is the perception in the US that the "narco-wars" are killing folks right and left and likely they will get caught up in that
mess.
|
To that...I call BS. It's old press. US folks have short memories and they arn't being constantly reminded of the mayhem that still exists, and for
the US mind, if it ain't happening right now...it ain't happening.
Sooo....that is almost a current events non-issue in the minds of the traveler...unless their memory is set in stone.
| Quote: |
Delays at the line- both ways.
Can we fix that one? Lots of luck.
|
BINGO...........that is the #1 reason.
| Quote: |
My heart breaks for the locals. When I walk the streets of Ensenada at noon on a Friday and see restaurants with zero patrons- and I am talking good
restaurants, not the holes in the wall. When I see the pangeros lined up at LAB with no customers.... the taco shacks boarded up.... the mercados
only opening for a few hours, and then no customers.
|
Sooo....wtf are you looking at? A bunch of blind people that just don't get it. It's over. Do something else. Until the border loosens up, and
there's a more free-flowing customer base....it will just get worse. I doubt we'll see that day.
Very sad.....but that's the way it is. Save your memories. |
Hi Dennis- guess we can agree to disagree.
Yes, I was referring to your thread, but did not want to make it personal.
As to your belief that the fear factor is BS-
well, you live in Punta Banda and I live in Central Cal.
For the past week I have spent much time explaining to friends and folks how I could be so brave as to enter the war zone to the South. That is just
how it is perceived up here- sad to say.
I have not been able to get a high school group organized to go down to Rancho Santa Marta at San Vicente for three years (after 17 straight years)
because the parents are so spooked over the narco-war reports.
You and I know differently - but the masses believe it is not safe, and thus they ain't going.
And, as to the sad state of affairs for the locals.
Might be easy for you, or for me, to simply pick up and try something different, but if your life has been totally immersed in living in a remote
fishing village, and helping the visitors with tacos, fishing, or whatever, then I suspect that is where you are stuck. Guess you could always open a
sand and gravel business, cuz that is about all the resources available when the tourists stop coming.
As always, the poor suffer the most,
and as you say, with fewer tourists, shorter waits at the border.
Pretty lousy price to pay for better border access, unfortunately.
Cheers my friend
Dick
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Mula
Super Nomad
Posts: 1653
Registered: 8-16-2011
Location: San Nicolas y Lopez Mateos
Member Is Offline
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Here's one:
I have a 17 year old niece in MI, Washington who went during spring break with 59 other kids from her Christian Church - to TJ - to build 3 houses for
the poor.
I was amazed! Maybe the further north of the border you get, the less fear factor.
I have always said the further south of the border into any foreign country you get - the better is gets. The borders are always a mess.
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9006
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
Member Is Offline
Mood: Inquisitive
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I think many underestimate the fact that people in the US STILL have less disposible income than at any time in the recent past. Couple that with
Mexico no longer being the bargain that it used to be and people are just deciding to "vacation" within a much smaller radius.
When I lived in SoCal, we would do the occasional weekender in the La Salina to Ensenada corridor for cheap drinks and cheap eats and a cheap hotel or
camping spot. That's certainly within an economical driving radius from, what, 15 million people in the LA-SD area? Trouble is, all those attractions
aint cheap anymore. It's easy to find food, hotel and beverage deals in the US that are actually cheaper than that corridor now. Maybe not with an
ocean view, but hey, money saved is money saved.
Somebody else alluded to it................when times get tough, US businesses lower their prices to attract more customers. In Mexico, they raise
prices and wonder where everyone went.
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