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jrbaja
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Education in Baja
While it is being explained to me that it is ok to not be educated enough to spell, by gringos that can't, I am watching many of the kids down here
being taught that basic education, (spelling) is a pretty good thing to learn. And not only that, they are being taught to spell in English and
Spanish. They must all be geniuses!
Not sure why they would want to bother with that though, maybe because they can't afford spell checker and babelfish.
And I reckon since calculators are now available for cheap, there really isn't any reason to learn another step of "basic education", which would be
Mathematics.
I guess since the gringos feel that the basic education isn't necessary, the Mexicans are probably wasting time and money.
The question is, what should they be learning now that all this time is freed up from learning a basic education? Who is the coolest and "all that",
or maybe discussing this weeks episode of the "O.C."? Perhaps learning to roll a better joint or scoring meth for the weekends parties ?
Definitely an interesting point of view. I seriously doubt it is shared by much of the world though.
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jrbaja
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Borrowed from "off topic"
"It classified 3.8 million Los Angeles County residents as 'low-literate, meaning they could not write a note explaining a billing error, use a bus
schedule, or locate an intersection on a street map," the Daily News reported.
I highly recommend reading the rest of the article if yoo r abel.
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jrbaja
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Not one reply?
Hmm, must be a convention of nuclear physicists going on somewhere
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BajaGrrls
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Ok, I'll bite.
I read your post three times and couldn't figure out what your point was. Lack of education? Perhaps. On who's part? 
I will say that I think poor spelling is far more a sign of laziness than poor education. I just had this conversation with my 16-year-old cousin who
sends emails without even reading them over. She depends on spell checker, which doesn't always catch grammar or let her know when she's incorrectly
used a word. There really is no excuse for it. It's laziness, plain and simple.
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jrbaja
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See what I mean
This post ties in with some of the other threads and I am making a point.
Perhaps you feel it is ok to let your children be lazy, illiterate annoyances, but there are a good many people who don't put up with that crap.
Especially teachers.
What I am saying is that american children are coming out way behind in intelligence, (yes, I said intelligence) because of a number of reasons.
I suppose since the mothers are all caught up in their soap operas, fish wrap magazines telling them what they are supposed to look like, and having
their boobs made bigger (not all bad!) their children are becoming lazy, spoiled, illiterate brats.
Once upon a time, you were not allowed to be lazy in school. And amazingly enough, if you didn't learn, you didn't graduate. And, if you were not
learning, your parents were informed and they had to step in and make sure that you were learning instead of playing . Or you didn't graduate.
WTF is going on nowadays? Pathetic!
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flyfishinPam
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Don't really understand your point either...
...from what I've seen (two step-children in junior high, one that went through high school and one currently there, one in daycare and another in
kindergarten), the education system in Baja is absolutely nothing to brag about. The teachers for the most part are downright lazy.
Some examples-
My step son, who now works in SJC graduated as the top student from Loreto's preparatoria in June of 2002. He did not know how to address an envelope
to send through the mail when he worked for me. (of course he's been taught since)
A former employee of mine who was attenting the preparatoria, could not give me one example of a Mexican author when I asked her to suggest some
classic reading for myself, a self-taught and lifelong student of Spanish. I asked her if there are any literature classes taught at her school and
she didn't know what I was talking about.
At any given time of the day, I can drive by or walk by and schools in town to see the kids "handing around" the grounds and not in the classroom.
They're hardly ever in the classroom.
When I taught at the "Colegio" the catholic school, I instructed English to two classes of students of junior high school age (44 kids per class).
Very few were interested in learning as it seemed to be more a holding tank or daycare center than a classroom. The director of the school walked
into my classroom and told the students that "if they don't feel like learning English they could just sit and do their homework or leave the room".
There was constant disruption during my classes and I completed the year (Aug 99-Jun 00) but did not teach again, out of frustration. (I was spoiled
by teaching chemistry to mostly pre-med and hard science majors, at UC Davis so I was unaccustomed to this type of behaviour)
Last thursday evening the preparatoria students made altars for the day of the dead celebration (which actually takes place today). This is because
tuesday (day of the dead) is a no school day, and since tuesday there is to be no school, the teachers "complete the bridge (puentecito)" and take
monday off as well, and since the long weekend was just ahead why bother to plan any lessons the week before? Easier to occupy the kids all day on
wednesday, and thursday with the altars, and then TAKE FRIDAY OFF TOO.
The teachers here are some of the most well paid and influencial people in town. It appears to me that teachers use their position as a stepping
stone to a political career. (I don't know if this is true everywhere in Mexico but it describes Loreto well) They are lousy at teaching children
and most parents do not pay attention to how and what their kids are being taught (the political messages are interesting, in kindergarten and daycare
no less). You gotta see it first-hand it would make you stop and think...
I am watching what my kids bring home from school. The best education a child can receive starts at home.
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jrbaja
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The best education a child can receive starts at home.
Brilliantly said Pam.
And I am sorry about the Loreto system. I have been watching my neighbors childrens progress in school here in Rosarito and it has been very
impressive.
Same as the rural areas like San Luis Gonzaga. Two of my neighbors in San Bartolo are going to college and the rest of them are pretty well
educated as far as a basic education.
What they are lacking is supplies which I have been trying to help with. As far as the kids though, they are loving their education. The teacher has
to drive from La Paz every day.
I guess for intelligent kids, you need dedicated teachers.
Perhaps a field trip to some successful schools would be in order. Both for the kids and the teachers!
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flyfishinPam
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Some good examples..
...about 15 years ago when I was passing through Guerrero Negro, I met a couple who we later partied with all night, but that's another story. The
morning after, one of their young sons took a book of mine and started to read aloud. Since the book was in English, I was impressed with his
pronounciacion and reading ability. He was 7 years old.
....about 11 years ago I was camping near Agua Verde on a beach that a 10 year old (mas o menos) boy guided us to. (we asked permission to camp and
the family there sent us with this boy to a suitable camping spot). He visited us every day as we were feeding him fresh mangoes. He went over my
Norman Roberts "Plants of Baja California" field guide and told me of the errors in the Mexican names of many of the plants. I told him to go ahead
and write in the changes. I still have that field guide and a photo of me with him making the changes. Pretty cool that that kid knew so much about
the world around him. One of these days (very soon) I'm going to look for his family, and him and show him the photo of us and my re-written book.
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BajaGrrls
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While I agree with you on a few small points, I think you're trying to make some huge generalizations. Statistically I don't think American children
are any worse off now than they were 20 or 30 years ago. Educational priorities are shifting. I'm not saying it's better or worse, just different.
There is a higher emphasis on technology than there is on reading and writing. It's possible to get a job bringing in six figures without knowing all
of the state capitals.
Here's the thing JR. I for one, don't like kids much. I don't like American kids, I don't like Mexican kids, I don't even like kids in my own
family. I don't care if they're lazy and illiterate or driven geniuses, I just don't care for kids. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that
you might just feel the same way. I don't think making some bogus argument about illiteracy is necessary, when what I hear you saying is that you
don't like lazy kids that you see as being annoyances.
And for the record, I personally liked how your view of mothers strengthened your argument.
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jrbaja
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I'm a little confused
about the relation between your first post and second but hey, I'm confused plenty!
That is a different kind of education that most all the rural children have. The knowledge of plants, animals, the earth, the skies, the weather,
and all things natural and necessary for their livelyhood(sp) seem to come with them from birth. Not exactly but it comes as second nature right away.
I have been taught more about plants and bugs and animals by the under 11 crowd than I can even believe. They know how to deal with snakes without
getting bit, they control horses and mulas that are 20 times bigger than them without a fear, and could probably survive on their own in the desert if
the need arose.
When I am around, they want to know everything. It is a constant barrage of the wee ones inspecting everything I have out. For me it is a blast,
(they usually bring food) and they are as uninhibited as me. They want to know stuff, and I want to know stuff.
When they have their breaks during the school days, they usually come over and hang out with me. I think the teacher may even send them because it
is somewhat of an education for them. Or else she's trying to help me with my Spanish. Either way, that's what they do.
Anyway, most all of the Mexican kids I know are extremely interested in Knowledge and they appreciate why they are going to school.
I do not see this attitude from very many gringo kids and even when I was in school, I didn't want to be. I woulda rather gone surfing or skiing or
something but they made me.
Very impressive watching all these little folks "taking it all in".
I guess as you say Pam, that attitude comes from the parenting!
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
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Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
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Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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flyfishinPam
flyfishinPam I thought you must be talking about Mulege until you mentioned Loreto. you describe the schools here exactly. It is a shame but they just
don't work. Part of the reason is that good teachers just don't want to be in these small towns. most of the teachers here don't have teaching
certificates and some did not even graduate Junior High school. I know some children [15 years old ] that can t hardly read . and know little basic
Math but get strait A's from the schools. we go to all the school meetings and talk to them but they just don't care.
we are currently trying to sell our interests here and move to La Paz wear they have some good private schools.
Bruce R Leech Mulege Baja
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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RandyMacSC/SO
Special Correspondent
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Just thought you might be interested JR...
JR, if your the type of person with an open mind, which I believe you are, and if don't mind listening to MP3s on your computer, then you might want
to take some time to listen to these MP3 files.
I found them while doing some research into shamans, curanderos, visionary plants etc. earlier this year. The MP3s of the discussions are sort of out
there with their content edginess, and probably not not for everybody, but their discussion is quite interesting. They venture into many areas, and
nothing is out of bounds in this talk (in book form also). These three exciting scientific minds veer off into all sorts of splaces, generally
associated with way out there discussions usually avoided by the masses for fear of having their noodle corrupted.
Some interesting parts of their discussion centers around the failed education system in the USA. I was very interested in this section, and after
following this thread about the Baja education and your most recent posts, I thought you might be interested.
As said in various reviews of their book:
Abraham, McKenna, and Sheldrake call for a revolutionary reinterpretation of spirituality which would place it in the center of human affairs. They
outline the lineaments of an alternative educational system for youth involving workshops, learning through experience, and initiations. Trialogues at
the Edge of the West is another example of the new pathways created in the interface of science and spirituality.
http://mckenna.psychedelic-library.org/
trialogues 98 - 1 - sheldrake-mckenna-abraham.mp3
trialogues 98 - 2 - mckenna-abraham-sheldrake.mp3
trialogues 98 - 3 - abraham-mckenna-sheldrake.mp3
[Edited on 11-2-2004 by RandyMac]
==============================================
Ole' Irish saying (Gaelic): 'Go neirigh an bothar leat, go mbeidh an gaoth choiche sa droim agat, is go mbeidh tu thuas ar neamh leath-uair roimh is
eol don diabhal go bhuil tu marbh'.... OR 'May the road rise up to meet you, May the wind always be at your back, and May you be in Heaven a half hour
before the Devil knows you're dead'
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jrbaja
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Chicago grrls
Can you say "Comprehension"? Let alone spell it! If that's what you get out of what I am saying, you should have learned to red beter
Anyone that doesn't like kids is already sick in my books and being able to read certainly isn't going to help them any!
"It's possible to get a job bringing in six figures without knowing all of the state capitals. "
No chit! Look at GW hahahahahaha
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pappy
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i spent some time teaching in ensenada- a great experience.from what i saw, the teachers were spending a lot of time on the basics-almost drill
instructor like-very few questions from the kids were permitted-just focus and listen, then practice-socratic method-which can be effective.i can say
the students at that school were wanting to learn and school seemed to be a big, important part of their life.i was also impressed with the school in
Abreojos.as for other locations, i cannot reply as i have not experienced their schools.
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BajaGrrls
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JR
Don't talk to me about comprehension. You can't seem to form a logical argument. What is your point JR? Education is lacking? No kidding. This
isn't new. Like everything else, I think you want to make this a Mexican vs. American thing, and it's not. If you don't think there are lazy,
unmotivated kids in Mexico, you're delusional.
For the record, I also don't particularly like dolphins, republicans and telemarketers. I must be really sick.
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TMW
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"For the record, I also don't particularly like dolphins, republicans and telemarketers. I must be really sick."
Hay, you need a vacation in Baja.
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bajalou
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CTA
Sounds to me like this being Baja "California:, we must have the California Teachers Association doing it's job encouraging education.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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jrbaja
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Chicago grrls
I don't expect you to even understand what I am saying. I'm beginning to wonder what you do like but don't bother, I don't care.
My point is that the Mexicans are trying to better themselves through education. And they are not whining about their lazy cousins, sisters or their
kids, they are doing something about it.
Now, let's hear about your vast Knowledge of Baja and the education system here.
Don't like dolpins or children? You must be a real prize
[Edited on 11/3/2004 by jrbaja]
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BajaGrrls
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First of all, it's Dr. Chicago Grrls. (Yes, I hold a Ph.D. in History from Northwestern University.) Second of all, I didn't claim to be an expert
on Baja. In fact, I've only been there a few times. I didn't realize that was a prerequisite for posting here. Don't worry, everyone knows what an
expert you are. You've made that abundantly clear. I'm not sure what warrants you making this a personal thing. You don't know me or what my
background is. You made a blanket statement which I disagreed with. Get over it. Your aguement is at best, weak. It's not like you made some
sociological breakthrough.
For someone who preaches individuality, you seem to have a tough time dealing with someone who doesn't agree with you. Or let me guess, it upsets you
that I'm not watching soap operas and figuring out how to get bigger boobs.
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BajaGrrls
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I should have known better.
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