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Author: Subject: Sierra de San Francisco..day trip
mtgoat666
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[*] posted on 2-28-2013 at 10:58 AM


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Originally posted by shari
i think it is a Gunther rig...but WTF is that thing swimming in the water???


isnt gunter same as gaff?

pic caption said pilot whale
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David K
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[*] posted on 2-28-2013 at 05:35 PM


It was one of a hundred black and white (and a few color) photos taken by Choral Pepper while she was exploring Baja, often on an Erle Stanley Gardner sponsored expedition. I have a cardboard box full of them... and posted several on the web site I made for sharing her photos. Pepper was the editor/ publisher of Desert Magazine during most of the 1960's.

All of the Desert Magazines are online for viewing, for free... see the link at http://dezertmagazine.com ('Dezert' is a new magazine to fill in where the original Desert left off, many years ago). The publisher is a Baja Nomad, but not here much... I helped him with a couple of Baja articles when he got it started. Goat, that web site has been online for maybe 10 years, linked on my site... Glad you liked it... I should get some more photos added!

EDIT: The Dezert site is being upgraded... so enjoy their Facebook page in the meantime: https://www.facebook.com/DezertMagazine

[Edited on 3-1-2013 by David K]




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[*] posted on 2-28-2013 at 06:17 PM


shari!!!!!.....we didn't talk about this this past couple of days!!!????...i wanna go there!!



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[*] posted on 2-28-2013 at 09:40 PM


we run out of water on our trip, and we end up filling up the bottles on the water source below LA PINTADA CAVE, nobody die,but yes take a water filter it's a most. We saw all the caves on Ramon's paper one day to go in one day to see the caves , last day to return to Rancho Guadalupe...
IT's crazy that a simple turn on the road will take you to another world,take alot food this guys have a big appetite,you will too if you have to be chassing the mules,and not only that watching over you too, this guys do alot work to make sure you have a good experince,my guide(QUITO),Still calls me from his cell phone,when ever he comes down to San Francisco de la Sierra where he can get cell signal..
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[*] posted on 2-28-2013 at 10:13 PM


The water coming out of the pipe in the rock beneath Pintada is the finest water on the planet...no need to filter. BUT if you get the water from the arroyo FILTER because a lot of people go into that canyon and there are a lot of goats coming down from R. Sta Teresa.



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[*] posted on 2-28-2013 at 10:14 PM


Hay BajaCat-when will I run into you up there again? I'm going in next week .....heading to the NE remotest corner for several days...only abt 8 this trip.



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David K
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[*] posted on 3-1-2013 at 08:54 AM


Teddi... I always enjoy seeing photos of the mission visita of San Pablo. So similar to Mission Santa Mara... When have you last seen it, do you have any photos?

Here is a picture from 2010 (by XRPhil):



This is the ruin that has been confused as being Mission Dolores del Norte by authors of the last century and INAH!




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[*] posted on 3-1-2013 at 09:25 AM


Hi DK-I was there last year and then a couple of years ago before w Eve. I had plans to spend an afternoon with a machete trying to hack away at the heavily-overgrown cholla that will soon cause the walls' demise but did not get much done---nasty nasty stuff. It will be but a memory in a few years if the cholla is allowed to eat away at the adobe.:(

I will probably ride down to it again next year sometime.

Also someone had somehow cut part of the cave art in one placeout and hauled it away....rotten souls!




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[*] posted on 3-1-2013 at 09:54 AM


Shows you that putting something in a permit only zone and not making it more visible isn't helping!

The more people that know about and can visit the mission sites, the more they will be valued, and preserved. If nobody sees it or goes there, than it is no big deal to dig a hole in it as it means nothing to anyone, so it would seem!
Thank you Teddi... and if you need help with photo posting, let me know.




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[*] posted on 3-1-2013 at 10:02 AM


Ooohhhhh ...and the places INAH will NOT allow people to go even heavily supervised with a custodio-that is another story. Its all about politics. There is one place that no outsider (ie tourist or researcher) is allowed to ride in to and it has some of the oldest rock art in the region-nothing like Pintada but just older and more archaic...very very special, in my eyes.



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[*] posted on 3-1-2013 at 10:16 AM


Yet INAH says they can do nothing to protect other historic sites from farmers, like San Juan de Dios or the the three Santo Tomas ruins (all three are unprotected).

Not allowing people to see something made by people, that brings money to the locals, is just plain sad.




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[*] posted on 3-1-2013 at 10:42 AM


The most DANGEROUS thing for these rock art sites is EASE of getting into them.....if there is a road within a mile or two making it accessible.

People do not realize just HOW IMPORTANT it is having these vaqueros in the mountains!!!!! These guys live there and notice every car that goes in and out of an area. If it is very remote and the family is not around ANYONE can slip in and take things from the hills.

INAH does not treasure the mountain folks as it should-it is these people who really GUARD and protect the ranges and if they can not survive in the hills, they have to move to a town, leaving unprotected sites. One friend told me that when a road was built in to a certain area years ago, soon after a truck came in and left with big bags of things dug from the caves. At that time INAH had not done anything to educate and protect and these folks did not understand the importance of these sites.

NOW they do....a few years back I gave a presentation to the kids at the little Santa Marta boarding school about their history and genealogy and I stressed to them how important their families are in the protection and guarding of some of the most incredible treasures on Earth....their mountain range!

INAH doesn't pay their custodios much and these guys do not have health insurance or any kind of retirement/pensions. They scrape by raising their families on their meager ranchos, raising goats and selling cheese. NO rain-no cheese, animals die, no income-INAH's pay doesn't do much. The tourists that come in to the San Franciscos see a tiny part of the vaqueros' lives and it is a very tough one. Corazon Vaquero romanticized it in many ways but understand, it is very difficult.

IF these cowboys can not support their families then they have to move away to town which they don't want to do-they don't want those drug influences......

So I encourage people to GO VISIT THE sites-support these tiny communities with guiding jobs.

I feel that it is an HONOR to share the trail with the LAST of the Californios-no, it is a privilege to be allowed to spend time with them. They keep me safe (have saved my life a few times.....).

IF the cowboys can not stay in the mountains, the archeological sites will be TRASHED..............it has happened before and will happen again. If it takes 4 days' riding to get there, chances are it will have a vigilant custodio or local guy keeping an eye on things.

JMO.....




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[*] posted on 3-1-2013 at 11:24 AM


This is something that I think the gypsy may do on our next trip down!



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[*] posted on 3-1-2013 at 11:29 AM


Very cool report! Wish I was there! Thanks Shari!



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[*] posted on 3-1-2013 at 07:57 PM


I SO want to do this. Our main issue is our dogs.

Dern and I both want a pair of handmade shoes. I wonder how long it takes to make them?

I am going to do this trip one day. I would love nothing better than to spend a week up there.

Thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread.

P>*)))>{




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[*] posted on 3-1-2013 at 08:02 PM
In the 1960's...


Choral Pepper took these photos when she and others with the Erle Stanley Gardner expedition visited the known caves and also discovered others, as could only be seen by helicopter.
(I will show more photos from the Pepper Collection, I just scanned... in the Baja Photography forum, on Nomad)











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[*] posted on 3-3-2013 at 09:32 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Baja Bucko
Hay BajaCat-when will I run into you up there again? I'm going in next week .....heading to the NE remotest corner for several days...only abt 8 this trip.
Lucky,you that is truly a amazing place,and I can say less about the people there, I left my truck in their ranch for 3 days with my rest of the food and drinks and tools,and nothing was missing when i came back.This year Im going to visit the La Purisima area,maybe next year I will return tu SF de la sierra,,to tour other canyons,but San Pablo canyon is just incredible,it was a pleasure metting you even for a brief time you are a legend there everybody knows you and also loves you,you are and asset to them...have fun in your trip wish I was there,really I wish I was there...
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[*] posted on 3-4-2013 at 08:21 AM


wow...Les just went to CuevaRaton with his daughter last week. As it is so close to the village, one heads to the village first and then with guide, returns to the cave. No need to book this one in advance .... you drive to it and walk up some steps to see it.

In the book THE CAVE PAINTINGS OF BAJA CALIFORNIA, pg 58-59, Harry Crosby analysed the paintings and says some intersting things:

1. various artists, at different times, seem to have painted.

2, the painted area is 40 feet long and represents a small but choice collection

3. you can see deer, borrego, rabbits, humans and a mtn lion.

4. one of the monos is rare in that it has a largeblack oval where the face would be and this can only be found in 4 other painting sites.

Les and I went to the cave years ago and I remember that the location is just spectacular ... the drive is as amazing as the paintings themselves. Not for the faint of heart - the last part is very narrow and treacherous.

My sister went another time with a guide from San Ignacio and he showed her lots of rock art along the road heading up. Really amazing and beautiful - I myself have only seen the pics.




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[*] posted on 3-4-2013 at 12:31 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by shari
i think it is a Gunther rig...but WTF is that thing swimming in the water???


Pilot whale:?::?:




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[*] posted on 3-4-2013 at 04:30 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Some of the Photos from the Choral Pepper collection... now at http://choralpepper.com


DK: thanks for link to pics. I found the sailboat pic interesting, could not tell if it was cat boat or gaff rig. do you have pics of the early sail rigs used by baja fishermen? i'm wondering what was the locally favored sail rig in baja in pre-motorized-panga days



Those were the sail boats of the original Vagabundos del Mar.




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