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mulegemichael
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[*] posted on 10-26-2013 at 08:32 AM


it's always been my belief that actual spearguns were illegal in mexico and that divers could only use hawaiian slings?...am i wrong on that?



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[*] posted on 10-26-2013 at 09:47 AM


michael i think guns ok but not with tanks on - only free diving.



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[*] posted on 10-26-2013 at 10:44 PM


Only rubber powered spear guns are legal.

In the genesis of recreational diving spear guns were powered by a variety of propellants; 22 caliber rifle shells, 38 caliber shells, CO 2 cartridges, and CO gas, as well as Power Heads of 22 & 38 Caliber are illegal in all parts of Mexico.

Spear fishing via free diving only, No SCUBA or Hookah and no SCUBA tanks on board the boat..

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[*] posted on 10-27-2013 at 06:10 AM


I'm in total agreement with dean miller concerning there are more and more divers using cameras instead of sticks or guns to take fish. The cost of filming under water has come way down to the cost of a medium size gun. And quality runs the whole length of the spectrum. From snap shooters to Pros. Maybe one of our Pros could start a thread showing some of the photo equipment available. It's also much cheaper to mount a lucky shot with a camera than a gun.:light:



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mulegemichael
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[*] posted on 10-27-2013 at 07:46 AM


you got it mike!....now i remember what the restriction was!...i could never use one of those sling deals; lucky i didn't shoot myself.



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[*] posted on 10-27-2013 at 08:25 AM


that is exactly why the Hawaiin slings are illegal...too many yahoos wounding fish. Speargun users are generally more experienced, serious and are selective fishermen....they get to choose their fish which is kinda neat in my opinion.

but catering to spearos is a real challenge because the conditions have to be just right with good visibility or it's a no go which makes scheduling a charter a crap shoot. The ideal is when a spearo is flexible enough to rod fish if diving isnt great.




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[*] posted on 10-28-2013 at 06:28 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by shari

that is exactly why the Hawaiin slings are illegal...too many yahoos wounding fish. Speargun users are generally more experienced, serious and are selective fishermen....they get to choose their fish which is kinda neat in my opinion.

but catering to spearos is a real challenge because the conditions have to be just right with good visibility or it's a no go which makes scheduling a charter a crap shoot. The ideal is when a spearo is flexible enough to rod fish if diving isnt great.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am unfamiliar with any law or ordinance prohibiting "Hawaiian slings" They are rubber propelled therefore fall with in the purview of the Mexican law- in the US states and the federal government pass laws and local governments pass ordinance.

Perhaps your cited restriction to Hawaiian slings is a local ordinance ? If so can and will you cite it?

It is also important to correctly identify equipment that has restricted usage.

An "Hawaiian Sling" consists of a hollow tube to which is attached a set of highly elastic rubbers, an arrow is threaded through the open tube engaging the elastic. The elastic is stretched with the arrow engaged. The grip on the elastic is released and the arrow is propelled as a free shaft.

The "Pole Spear" is a pole to which a length of elastic rubber is attached to the end. The shooter places their hand in the loop produced by the elastic at the end of the Pole spear, the elastic is stretched concurrently with the shooter grasping the pole. The grasp is released and the pole is propelled striking the fish
(or a world record 10,000 pound rock)

And then there is the long forgotten hinge gun, which used a common hinge for the trigger mechanism.

I also share your concern with the "yahoos" (your term) who venture south ill prepared for Baja fish.

Your quote:
"The ideal is when a spearo is flexible enough to rod fish if diving isnt great."

A spearfisherman is a spearfisherman and not a worm drowneder holding on to a wishing stick.. "Oh I wish some fish would swim by and bite on my hook."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My fist trip to Baja was in December 1951 - to spear fish. A post from long ago...

BAJA Spear fishing equipment of yesteryear

I have been in the process of October clean and toss, then retrieve and find a new hiding place for the treasure I can't live with out for another year. This year's un pleasantry I uncovered a stash of old spear points that I had used in Baja during the big fish glory days of the 1950s and 1960s.

During those halcyon days of yesteryear when Baja was devoid of paved roads

My tribe who was actively sticking the big ones, consistently bent arrows, tore up guns and on several occasions actually snatched the gun from the hands of the shooter as he watched it and the stuck fish wave bye bye as the entire rig disappeared into the murky depths. So by trial and error over a period of a number of trips and equal number of years we developed special points and gun rigging especially for for the big ones in Baja.

In Baja we used the largest and most powerful gun spear gun of the era the "Samson" (named after it's inventor Her Samson of Costa Mesa) The Sampson featured twin line releases. One side was for a normal shooting line, the other was for a detachable modified Samson or a "twin spinner" point which was attached to a 20 plus foot length of 7X7 SS cabling, attached to a line, terminating in a float.

We began diving with the standard 5/16 stock Samson CRS arrow but after the first trip discovered it could be bent in a variety of shapes by the Mexican fish, so we asked Herb Samson to produced a 3/8 SS arrow. Herb refused stating that arrows were meant to be bent. so off to Charlie Sturgil who had by that time considerable Baja experience to produce a larger stronger arrow. He produced a 3/8 SS arrow with the slide ring stop in front of the three notches.

The fish was stuck, the battle was on. The shooting line was attached to the gun, the other SS line was attached to the modified point which detached from the arrow but was attached to the cabling line and float. So the gun, the point stub and the shooting line remained with the diver, the fish was held by the detached point, the cable and the float.

We christened this technique as "drop shaft."

We always attempted to keep the fish from running and holing but were seldom successful, however the SOS cabling seldom broke but on occasion frayed. So as expected one necessary piece of equipment was a pair of very heavy duty workmen leather gloves to work the line and the fish.

So often the fish was allowed, generally not by choice to hole up and bleed out.

To hasten the process of bleeding my diving buddy Jack Waite (see Skin Diver Magazine Vol 1 # 1 December 1951 He's all over the issue) made a special 38 caliber gun. It was a non descript 38 which he obtained at Hy Hunter in Pasadena ( remember him?.) Jack cut the barrel off at the back of the frame, a 1/4 hole drilled transverse where the hammer struck, the handles were removed and I fabricated and welded a new handle about 2-1/2 feet long complete with trigger.

When a fish was in a hole we placed the 38 caliber 6 shooter next to the fishes' head and had at it. We discovered after the first usage that it was always advisable to shoot up never down at the fish do to the excessive concussion..Kinda rang your bell --for several days. Any way the fish always received the message and became very docile and could be removed from the hole with out difficulty and gently horsed to the surface.

Those were the days that have come to a sudden and screeching halt with the completion of the trans- peninsular highway and the increased population of my beloved Baja by nationals and immigrants.. No more big fish and no one in their right mind would ever take a gun no matter how modified or even ammo to Baja! If you do the authorities just may hole you up .

sdm
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shari
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[*] posted on 10-28-2013 at 06:44 AM


Here is a link to sportfishing regs...It was the fisheries officer who told me that the pole spear type where you hold the rubber band was illegal because it wounds too many fish...below says rubber band type HARPOONS are legal which I thought were spearguns...not the poles. But hey, I've been wrong before and it sure seems like everybody uses those poles.

http://www.conapescasandiego.org/contenido.cfm?cont=REGULATI...

Underwater fishing is limited to five fish per day, using rubber band or spring type harpoons, and only while skindiving.

Here is a regulation that is also regularly broken...hahahaha
It is prohibited to collect shells, corals, sea anemones and snails, or to disturb the original ecosystem environment.

And while I agree that most spearos are purists...many of our clients are flexible enough and will rod fish to get some fish. It is a problem with scheduling charters when we are booked solid and the visibility is poor...many dont have the luxury of waiting a few days for it to clear up and just want to get out on the water.

[Edited on 10-28-2013 by shari]




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[*] posted on 10-30-2013 at 07:35 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by shari
Here is a link to sportfishing regs...It was the fisheries officer who told me that the pole spear type where you hold the rubber band was illegal because it wounds too many fish...below says rubber band type HARPOONS are legal which I thought were spearguns...not the poles. But hey, I've been wrong before and it sure seems like everybody uses those poles.

http://www.conapescasandiego.org/contenido.cfm?cont=REGULATI...

Underwater fishing is limited to five fish per day, using rubber band or spring type harpoons, and only while skindiving....

[Edited on 10-28-2013 by shari]


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mexican Spear fishing Laws

"Underwater fishing is limited to five fish per day, using rubber band or spring type harpoons, and only while skindiving"

1) The Spring powered Spear gun was invented in the 1930s in France, Imported by Gus De La Valle for Healthways in the late 1960s. Was popular for about 10 years to around mid 1960s.

It was grossly underpowered and died a quite death. Now considered an antique. Have YOU ever seen A SPRING POWERED SPEAR GUN?

2) The term Skin Diving has no been in use for a number of years. The present preferred terminology is "Free diving" for the serious diver/spear fisherman and "snorkeling" for the occasional owner of MF& S.

SDM
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[*] posted on 10-31-2013 at 11:07 AM


Quote:
quote]Originally posted by lencho

For what it's worth, on mercado libre the standard spearguns are called arpones and the pole spears with attached rubber bands are called arpones tipo Hawaina.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As long as I can recall spear gun have been refereed to as an "arpones" in all Spanish speaking countries.

Pole Spears in Spanish as "arpones tipo Hawaina." which refers to the tip as being Hawaiian style. This type tip tradionally has a number of spines commonly referred to in US as a Paralyzer Tip by some and a Pranger point by others.

But no mention of Spring powered spear guns..????

SDM
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[*] posted on 11-15-2013 at 08:14 AM


Sounds like everyone got it down as far as the legalities of spearfishing. Spearos only take 5 fish a day which is 5 less the pole fishing. I have heard people say that spearfishing is not good because we kill fish. We actually select the fish that we kill instead of catching them blind and we do take a lot less. Spearfishing can be a dangerous sport if not taken seriously. So can driving a car though!

We all like to have good visibility but we also look at it this way; if we cannot see the fish that good then the fish cannot see us that good either. 2 weeks ago we had visibility around 100'. Now it has dropped back to 20' or so because of the winds. It always varies here and we can only hope for the best. That is why we do a lot of trips to Isla Tortuga because a bad day there is still 30'.

Photography has really caught on with scuba. It seems that 60% of the newer people now are taking photos. It works out great here because the Sea of Cortez has so much more life than the Pacific. I grew up diving the Pacific and it is just so limited compared to here. I am lucky that this is my backyard. Always something new to see!!!




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[*] posted on 11-15-2013 at 08:58 AM


This thread brings back some memories. I used to own and operate a dive charter boat, the "Loisann" out of San Diego, a 20 passenger dive boat. Sometimes a spearfishing group would charter the boat and other times a photography group would charter the boat and I knew good places to take either group. On open charters we would get individuals and some would be spearfishermen and some were photographers and others looky lu's. Always a challenge to find a place where everyone was happy. Those days are gone and now I am enjoying the good life down here in paradise.
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[*] posted on 11-15-2013 at 09:21 AM
Wait a minute


It works out great here because the Sea of Cortez has so much more life than the Pacific. I grew up diving the Pacific and it is just so limited compared to here. I am lucky that this is my backyard. *** Hola,,I would have to say in IMO the pacific has way more life !! unless your talking southern ca..from morro up is A fish bowl...the only really good diving in the sea of cortez is pulmo and some of the islands....hell Bahia conception is a cleared out masterpiece now !! Sorry If that's bad for your biz but I'm Telling it as I see it !!!
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[*] posted on 11-15-2013 at 03:29 PM


Captain KW,
I am talking about So Cal (Pacific) because Nor Cal water is just way too cold for me!!! LOL. Now, I would never take anyone spearfishing or diving in the Bahia unless I had a good reason. I am not sure what you have seen of fish in Sea of Cortez but I will post video of 100's of cabria of all sizes together here at 30' of water. Fish are going upwards of 50 lbs on some of the bigger ones and they are averaging in 15 to 20. Also, we usually only dive the islands so maybe you have only dove from shore, not sure. Isla Tortuga has it all and the vis is always good. How is the visibility up in Northern Cal?




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[*] posted on 11-15-2013 at 04:07 PM
The Beast is Waiting


This is one huge grouper down in the rocks near the Santa Inez Islands a mile or so offshore at Pta. Chivato. No kill. Photo sent to me courtesy of Nate at Pta. Chivato a few years back. Hopefully, that big boy is still down there waiting for your camera.

Buena suerte!



[Edited on 4-6-2014 by Pompano]




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divemulege
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[*] posted on 11-15-2013 at 04:59 PM


There is a lot of big grouper. We no not try to target them locally because there is not as many as before. Locals take them at night time while they are sleeping. A lot of these are breeders so we are trying to give them a chance to multiply. These things scare the crap out of you when you look in a cave and all of the sudden your are face to face with one of these big boys!

Thanks for the pic Pompano!!!




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[*] posted on 11-15-2013 at 05:52 PM
One dang BIG fish


A diver friend of mine saw three of those guys swim by, one bigger than the next!

It's on my "wanna see while diving" list.

Oh, and Pompano, what would the voices in your tackle box say about a fish like that?




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[*] posted on 11-15-2013 at 06:10 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Mulegena
....

Oh, and Pompano, what would the voices in your tackle box say about a fish like that?


Mulegena, I just asked....and they said,

"This time, You had best be the one to get away!"




I do what the voices in my tackle box tell me.
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