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brewer
Nomad
Posts: 419
Registered: 1-4-2011
Location: BCS
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Mood: Grateful
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Want to buy inverter
Looking for a good used inverter. Something like a Trace 40/24. Thought I'd put it out there. Thanks.
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8802
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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Mood: Full Time Residents
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I've had 2 of three fail...
they no longer make them...no support
outback is the unit to look at now
1/4 the size and weight
go 12v
batteries fail and if you get a bad one you lose more batteries
they are all the same inside now...electrical
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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I know someone on the east cape who has 2 xantrex 4024 inverters with disconnect box for sale for $2500. He had them bridged for 4000 watts @ 220v. I
don't know if he would separate them. They are in good shape, he's moving to a larger 48v system. u2u me if you are interested.
[Edited on 12-5-2013 by monoloco]
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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mtnpop
Senior Nomad
Posts: 597
Registered: 9-8-2009
Location: Colorado/mulege
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Bob,
Your last comment, are you saying to use 12v or are you actually saying no 12v due to the battery problem.??
just trying to work on a new system to use at Chivato..
and am looking at mostly 12v lightrs, etc...
thanks.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bob and Susan
I've had 2 of three fail...
they no longer make them...no support
outback is the unit to look at now
1/4 the size and weight
go 12v
batteries fail and if you get a bad one you lose more batteries
they are all the same inside now...electrical |
Common sense is a flower that doesn\'t grow in everyone\'s garden.....
A wise man once spoke nothing.....
Never kick a cow chip on a hot day!!
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtnpop
Bob,
Your last comment, are you saying to use 12v or are you actually saying no 12v due to the battery problem.??
just trying to work on a new system to use at Chivato..
and am looking at mostly 12v lightrs, etc...
thanks.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bob and Susan
I've had 2 of three fail...
they no longer make them...no support
outback is the unit to look at now
1/4 the size and weight
go 12v
batteries fail and if you get a bad one you lose more batteries
they are all the same inside now...electrical |
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I would recommend
at least 24 volts for a whole house system and design the system to use one string of batteries instead of parallel strings.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8802
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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Mood: Full Time Residents
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old thinking...
a 24 v system is what "old people" told me too...
they were WRONG
inside the inverter its all the same
the conversions are done with circuit boards...not windings
go 12v...use BIG wires to connect the batteries (not car or truck size)
when I say BIG wires they should be 4 times the thickness of a car battery
Use BIG wires from the batteries to the inverter too
keep the inverter close to the batteries
batteries stink...charge controlers and inverters make noise
keep them all in the garage and you'll sleep better
cells in batteries die...that's just a fact
in a 48v system if you lose 1-12v battery you actually lose 4
in a 12v system if you lose 1-12v battery you actually lose 1
if you use 6v batteries double that
the ONLY time to think about voltage is from the batteries to the inverter
that distance is short...you never need 48v or 24v...
12v is fine
once you invert the energy to 120v...the electricty can go a long distance
run #2 stranded wire from the roof at 72v and let the controller reduce the voltage to the batteries (outback is the best controller right now)
when it gets hot outside resistance builds in the wire from the solar panels and they loose power that's why the higher voltage from the roof
never buy an old system...unless its a backup
remember you are making your own electricty and yo will depend on it
when it goes out...it sure as hell will be dark outside
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captkw
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
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Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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Wireing circa del mar
Beside BIG wire if you use Anchor brand wire and connectors and "Blue Sea " Swiches,, Fuses,, buss strips and posts...your be Waaay ahead in the
long run !! for a proinstall that will do its job that you want....My large cable crimpers is two feet long and looks and works like a bolt
cutter....hard to find tooll$$$ PS.. besides forementioned problems I see in Baja installs is lack of good ventaletion ...only gell cell batts don't
gas !!
[Edited on 12-5-2013 by captkw]
[Edited on 12-5-2013 by captkw]
[Edited on 12-5-2013 by captkw]
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bob and Susan
old thinking...
a 24 v system is what "old people" told me too...
they were WRONG
inside the inverter its all the same
the conversions are done with circuit boards...not windings
go 12v...use BIG wires to connect the batteries (not car or truck size)
when I say BIG wires they should be 4 times the thickness of a car battery
Use BIG wires from the batteries to the inverter too
keep the inverter close to the batteries
batteries stink...charge controlers and inverters make noise
keep them all in the garage and you'll sleep better
cells in batteries die...that's just a fact
in a 48v system if you lose 1-12v battery you actually lose 4
in a 12v system if you lose 1-12v battery you actually lose 1
if you use 6v batteries double that
the ONLY time to think about voltage is from the batteries to the inverter
that distance is short...you never need 48v or 24v...
12v is fine
once you invert the energy to 120v...the electricty can go a long distance
run #2 stranded wire from the roof at 72v and let the controller reduce the voltage to the batteries (outback is the best controller right now)
when it gets hot outside resistance builds in the wire from the solar panels and they loose power that's why the higher voltage from the roof
never buy an old system...unless its a backup
remember you are making your own electricty and yo will depend on it
when it goes out...it sure as hell will be dark outside |
The optimum system will never have over one string
of batteries, parallel strings of batteries are always a bad idea. Ideally, you should match the batteries to the system to have all of them in
series, for example, in a 24 volt system you would have 2-12volt batteries, 4-6volt batteries, or 8-2volt batteries. The resistance in the parallel
strings is the major cause of battery failures because the batteries will never all get equal charging.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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captkw
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
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Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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Exactly !!
damn guy fishes and electrical !! (monoloco) BTW the fastest way to kill a batt is undercharged...allows the plates to "sulfate" PPS..To be crystal
clear :: batts in series will never charge correctly and can discharge to the weaker (bad battery) most unit's that I work with are for Three (3)
battery banks...very important to use all the same batterys and deep clycle is not to only way to go in some apps !!!
[Edited on 12-5-2013 by captkw]
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brewer
Nomad
Posts: 419
Registered: 1-4-2011
Location: BCS
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Mood: Grateful
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bob and Susan
I've had 2 of three fail...
they no longer make them...no support
outback is the unit to look at now
1/4 the size and weight
go 12v
batteries fail and if you get a bad one you lose more batteries
they are all the same inside now...electrical |
So are saying to avoid the older Trace 40/24? And go with the Outback inverter for about $1900.00? Big bucks man. What is everyones opinion on
that?
Maybe LarryC will chime in. Thanks all.
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captkw
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
Member Is Offline
Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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well !!
ITs Late for me..But this is what I DO for a living....I can you help you....But,,,you need to get BOB with a "el FARO"
permission.......LOL,,,,LOL
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captkw
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
Member Is Offline
Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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well !!
ITs Late for me..But this is what I DO for a living....I can you help you....But,,,you need to get BOB with a "el FARO"
permission.......LOL,,,,LOL
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brewer
Nomad
Posts: 419
Registered: 1-4-2011
Location: BCS
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Mood: Grateful
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What's with the double posting again?...LOL. Just joking. But what do have to offer?
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8802
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Full Time Residents
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| Quote: | Originally posted by captkw
ITs Late for me..But this is what I DO for a living....I can you help you....But,,,you need to get BOB with a "el FARO"
permission.......LOL,,,,LOL |
if THIS is what you do for a living...
give us your business name and address and...
i'll PAY you to repair two 4024 trace inverters I have here
and i'm not afraid to travel
pretty simple...
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by brewer
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bob and Susan
I've had 2 of three fail...
they no longer make them...no support
outback is the unit to look at now
1/4 the size and weight
go 12v
batteries fail and if you get a bad one you lose more batteries
they are all the same inside now...electrical |
So are saying to avoid the older Trace 40/24? And go with the Outback inverter for about $1900.00? Big bucks man. What is everyones opinion on
that?
Maybe LarryC will chime in. Thanks all. |
I have no experience with Trace, but my Outback inverter has been
running continuously for over 3 years with no problems. I believe that Trace/Xantrex and Outback are similarly priced, if it was me, I'd get the
Outback because of their field repairability and stellar technical support.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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larryC
Super Nomad
Posts: 1482
Registered: 8-11-2008
Location: BoLA
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
| Quote: | Originally posted by brewer
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bob and Susan
I've had 2 of three fail...
they no longer make them...no support
outback is the unit to look at now
1/4 the size and weight
go 12v
batteries fail and if you get a bad one you lose more batteries
they are all the same inside now...electrical |
So are saying to avoid the older Trace 40/24? And go with the Outback inverter for about $1900.00? Big bucks man. What is everyones opinion on
that?
Maybe LarryC will chime in. Thanks all. |
I have no experience with Trace, but my Outback inverter has been
running continuously for over 3 years with no problems. I believe that Trace/Xantrex and Outback are similarly priced, if it was me, I'd get the
Outback because of their field repairability and stellar technical support. |
I haven't chimed in before 'cause this subject is like talking to a wall. I agree with monoloco on this subject. I have a 12v system but if I had it
to do over again I'd go at least 24v and probably 48v. I have had my Outback inverters for 9 years now and have not had one problem. The master
inverter has not been turned off for over 5 years except for routine battery maintenance. I think Captkw misspoke when he said batteries in series
will not charge properly, batteries in series will charge properly and batteries in parallel will not charge as well and some will get undercharged
and die prematurely.
Brewer,
If it was me I would go with the big bucks system. It all depends on what is important to you. If power is important then do it right. The old Trace
4024 is an old workhorse inverter, but as Bob knows there are no parts and very little support for those inverters so when it breaks it stays broke.
Outback is hard to beat as far as customer service goes, and it comes with ( I think) a 2 year warranty which for an extra fee you can extend to 5
years. I don't think it is necessary though because their products are so reliable. I have seen the Outback inverters sell for $1600, then you need
the mate so you can program the inverter and that is another $250. Then you might as well get their charge controller and a hub so all the parts can
talk to each other. So by the time you are done you are looking at $2700 bucks plus batteries, solar panels and stuff to hook everything together.
$4000 or more after all is said and done but you will have a system that will last for many years of trouble free service and run an elec refer, all
your power tools, TV's and internet. Let the arguments begin.
Larry
Off grid, 12-190 watt evergreen solar panels on solar trackers, 2-3648 stacked Outback inverters, 610ah LiFePo4 48v battery bank, FM 60 and MX60
Outback charge controllers, X-240 Outback transformer for 240v from inverters, 6500 watt Kubota diesel generator.
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LancairDriver
Super Nomad
Posts: 1587
Registered: 2-22-2008
Location: On the Road
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Here is some good information on battery systems.
http://www.marxrv.com/12volt/12volt.htm
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Thanks Larry .... some great information in "bullet" fashion and "some" system 
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brewer
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Well I already have an Outback controller and batteries and panels. I am borrowing a Trace inverter. With LarryC's info, I'd be better off just
going with the Outback inverter.
Better do it soon before the Trace quits working on me!
Thanks for the info.
Now, anyone have an Outback inverter for sale?
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
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