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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pompano
Too easy. The most heavily militarized border in the world is in fact the 'Demilitarized Zone' between North and South Korea. It's title is
somewhat of a familiar joke. |
Very bad analogy. North Korea is being considered by the UN to be brought up on charges of crimes against humanity, similar to the N-zis.
Our brothers and sister South of the Border should not even be close to being considered in the same breathe as North Korea.
Not to mention that most of you Nomads are forced to sit through hours of border wait for what is no appropriate reason.
[Edited on 2-20-2014 by Bajahowodd]
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: Skeptical
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The exact same issue happened a couple of years ago and it was hashed over and over and over right here. Many of the same people who jumped in here
were posting in the string a couple of years ago. Barry was the most vocal and vehement in favor of the shooting of a rock thrower by a border patrol
agent. We went back and forth and it was a total waste of time.
So...why is this new incident surprising or even discussed here? Nothing has or will change in attitudes. The responses are absolute! They are 180
degrees apart. You can count on the responses being given according to their political ideologies.
For Dennis to quote the attitudes of The American Thinker, a Right Wing Rag, as credible, is typical. That publication still makes sure that
Obama's middle name, Hussain, is inserted. They are obsessed by "Communists" and the Liberals enabling poor people with "handouts".
Those who are saying that the rock throwers, or the Border Patrol Agents are stupid does not address the issue. All that does is define what ideology
you subscribe to.
I do not beat around the bush with such distracting drivel.I think the shooting incidences are deplorable! They are inhumane. It is no different than
when Dick Cheney goes hunting in a deer ranch where the deer are trapped by a surrounding fence. The threat to Cheney and his buddies is that a
cornered deer could lash out with their hooves... (or maybe getting shot in the face).
I feel sorry for the families of the deceased. He was some mother's child. (Sound familiar? Hmmm?) I would feel the same for the family of a Border
Patrol Agent who might be killed by an unarmed rock thrower (he was some mother's Oaf), but we all know that hypothetical will never happen. So, cut
the crap in trying to justify this murder. You guys love it. We hate it. You Wingers make me sick! 
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
For Dennis to quote the attitudes of The American Thinker, a Right Wing Rag, as credible, is typical. That publication still makes sure that
Obama's middle name, Hussain, is inserted. They are obsessed by "Communists" and the Liberals enabling poor people with "handouts".
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Why, thank you, Tony. Nice to see you drop in occasionally.
Anyway.......please keep in mind, one man's bible is another man's bathroom book. 
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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Ateo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5847
Registered: 7-18-2011
Member Is Offline
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We do many things wrong in the USA (drug war, regular war, tax codes, restricting gay marriage, euthanasia, immigration-- to name a few).
I think we are on the road to rectifying some of the above injustices. As the newer generations come in, the old die off, and as access to
information becomes readily available I believe we will see public opinion shift on multiple issues (see above mentioned). We are seeing that with
Gay Marriage and Marijuana Laws, as I write this. Euthanasia? Really? We don't have the right to end our own friggen lives in a humane way, if need
be?
Our immigration system needs to be fixed. Maybe this tragedy wouldn't have happened if we had a smarter system. I bet in 100 years we will look back
at this event and think, "that didn't have to happen."
Many people have lost their lives trying to cross the border to make a better life for themselves. We spend BILLIONS and BILLIONS to keep people out
of the USA.
Ya know what? They find a way in! Just like they find a way to get drugs here. We are wasting $$$$.
I did inspections at 5 gas stations today. Every one of them had an "illegal alien" working there. Come on, where there is a will, there is away.
Let's be smarter than this.
Added on edit: We do many things RIGHT here in the USA. I'm not bashing. Try being an atheist in Saudi Arabia, or a woman. We are starting to get
some things right here, like allowing gays to marry who they love.
[Edited on 2-20-2014 by Ateo]
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ateo
We spend BILLIONS and BILLIONS to keep people out of the USA.
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WOW...that's a bunch of fun tickets, for sure.
I guess it's meaningless that our economy says goodbye to 21 billion dlls [average estimate] in southbound remittances each year.
| Quote: |
I did inspections at 5 gas stations today. Every one of them had an "illegal alien" working there.
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Really????
Did they have the telltale "IA" tattooed on their foreheads? 
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ateo
like allowing gays to marry who they love.
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As long as gays are lobbying for equal rights or whatever, I think they should be entitled to marry for money just like all us hets do. 
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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Ateo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5847
Registered: 7-18-2011
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by Ateo
We spend BILLIONS and BILLIONS to keep people out of the USA.
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WOW...that's a bunch of fun tickets, for sure.
I guess it's meaningless that our economy says goodbye to 21 billion dlls [average estimate] in southbound remittances each year.
| Quote: |
I did inspections at 5 gas stations today. Every one of them had an "illegal alien" working there.
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Really????
Did they have the telltale "IA" tattooed on their foreheads?
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Speaking of Billions down the drain, let's tax the Churches. That's about $80,000,000,000/YEAR.
As for the illegal alien statement, ask the owners, once you get to know them. Straight to my face, one told me, "Jon, you know most of them don't
have papers right?"
Trust me, their illegal status gets used against them.
"Oh......you're gonna make a claim because you hurt your back?"
[Edited on 2-20-2014 by Ateo]
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: Skeptical
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
For Dennis to quote the attitudes of The American Thinker, a Right Wing Rag, as credible, is typical. That publication still makes sure that
Obama's middle name, Hussain, is inserted. They are obsessed by "Communists" and the Liberals enabling poor people with "handouts".
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Why, thank you, Tony. Nice to see you drop in occasionally.
Anyway.......please keep in mind, one man's bible is another man's bathroom book. |
...A very civil post, Dennis! I commend you. I hope you are continuing
to recover and wish you the best.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
...A very civil post, Dennis! I commend you. I hope you are continuing
to recover and wish you the best. |
Thanks, Tony. All is well.
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ateo
"Oh......you're gonna make a claim because you hurt your back?"
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That would be hitting the jackpot for an illegal these days. Attorney's would beat down his hovel door to represent him in a suit.
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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Ateo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5847
Registered: 7-18-2011
Member Is Offline
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All I will say is debating this stuff on Baja Nomad, is a waste of time. Or.......maybe not. The lurkers are watching. =)
Glad to see you posting Dennis, even though I disagree with you.
And yeah, gays have every right to be as screwed in a marriage as us straights.
=)
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
The exact same issue happened a couple of years ago and it was hashed over and over and over right here. Many of the same people who jumped in here
were posting in the string a couple of years ago. Barry was the most vocal and vehement in favor of the shooting of a rock thrower by a border patrol
agent. We went back and forth and it was a total waste of time.
So...why is this new incident surprising or even discussed here? Nothing has or will change in attitudes. The responses are absolute! They are 180
degrees apart. You can count on the responses being given according to their political ideologies.
For Dennis to quote the attitudes of The American Thinker, a Right Wing Rag, as credible, is typical. That publication still makes sure that
Obama's middle name, Hussain, is inserted. They are obsessed by "Communists" and the Liberals enabling poor people with "handouts".
Those who are saying that the rock throwers, or the Border Patrol Agents are stupid does not address the issue. All that does is define what ideology
you subscribe to.
I do not beat around the bush with such distracting drivel.I think the shooting incidences are deplorable! They are inhumane. It is no different than
when Dick Cheney goes hunting in a deer ranch where the deer are trapped by a surrounding fence. The threat to Cheney and his buddies is that a
cornered deer could lash out with their hooves... (or maybe getting shot in the face).
I feel sorry for the families of the deceased. He was some mother's child. (Sound familiar? Hmmm?) I would feel the same for the family of a Border
Patrol Agent who might be killed by an unarmed rock thrower (he was some mother's Oaf), but we all know that hypothetical will never happen. So, cut
the crap in trying to justify this murder. You guys love it. We hate it. You Wingers make me sick! |
Tony----------about my rants------it is not a "ideological" rant, it is a legal rant. How can one "waste time" discussing and correcting legal
matters? What these BP agents are doing is legal, and there are good reasons why it is legal. It is not a moral or political subject-------both
liberal and conservative Agents are in the same legal boat, so to speak---------self defense--------and they would be sanctioned (and worse) if they
did not generally follow policy, and for good reason----they would be endangering other agents if they did not follow policy.
I am sorry if you can't see it that way, but if you don't you simply are wrong. (from a legal standpoint)
Barry
[Edited on 2-20-2014 by Barry A.]
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Cisco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4196
Registered: 12-30-2010
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
The exact same issue happened a couple of years ago and it was hashed over and over and over right here. Many of the same people who jumped in here
were posting in the string a couple of years ago. Barry was the most vocal and vehement in favor of the shooting of a rock thrower by a border patrol
agent. We went back and forth and it was a total waste of time.
So...why is this new incident surprising or even discussed here? Nothing has or will change in attitudes. The responses are absolute! They are 180
degrees apart. You can count on the responses being given according to their political ideologies.
For Dennis to quote the attitudes of The American Thinker, a Right Wing Rag, as credible, is typical. That publication still makes sure that
Obama's middle name, Hussain, is inserted. They are obsessed by "Communists" and the Liberals enabling poor people with "handouts".
Those who are saying that the rock throwers, or the Border Patrol Agents are stupid does not address the issue. All that does is define what ideology
you subscribe to.
I do not beat around the bush with such distracting drivel.I think the shooting incidences are deplorable! They are inhumane. It is no different than
when Dick Cheney goes hunting in a deer ranch where the deer are trapped by a surrounding fence. The threat to Cheney and his buddies is that a
cornered deer could lash out with their hooves... (or maybe getting shot in the face).
I feel sorry for the families of the deceased. He was some mother's child. (Sound familiar? Hmmm?) I would feel the same for the family of a Border
Patrol Agent who might be killed by an unarmed rock thrower (he was some mother's Oaf), but we all know that hypothetical will never happen. So, cut
the crap in trying to justify this murder. You guys love it. We hate it. You Wingers make me sick! |
Tony----------about my rants------it is not a "ideological" rant, it is a legal rant. How can one "waste time" discussing and correcting legal
matters? What these BP agents are doing is legal, and there are good reasons why it is legal. It is not a moral or political subject-------both
liberal and conservative Agents are in the same legal boat, so to speak---------self defense--------and they would be sanctioned (and worse) if they
did not generally follow policy, and for good reason----they would be endangering other agents if they did not follow policy.
I am sorry if you can't see it that way, but if you don't you simply are wrong. (from a legal standpoint)
Barry
[Edited on 2-20-2014 by Barry A.] |
How about just stepping out of rock-throwing range instead of shooting another human being Barry?
Or do you not consider them human beings as many on this forum dehumanize someone who is not 'just like them'.
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DaliDali
Super Nomad
Posts: 1132
Registered: 4-21-2010
Location: BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by jbcoug
Goat,
You think the border patrol agents are not too smart, what does that make the rock thrower? Somewhere around marooon, cretin, imbecil...........
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What does that make the goat?..the defender of all who throw objects with the express intent of causing great bodily harm at ANYONE........jerk comes
to mind.
[Edited on 2-20-2014 by DaliDali]
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4375
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
North Korea shoots both invaders or it's own people getting too close to the border. Lot's of 'socialist' countries had to shoot their own people who
tried to leave, otherwise nobody would stay.  |
Can you please name one "socialist" country who has done this? Some dictatorships, yes, but socialist?
Maybe Denmark, Sweden, Finland, who?????
The report in the paper lost all credibility when they mentioned a rock as big as a basketball --- |
So the shooting never occurred
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15937
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Everchangin'
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perhaps the chuckers were on a bluff above the BP and maybe a basketball was rolled in the direction of the BP. when he looked up an Indian baseball
hit him in the face?
if he turned and ran he should be fired. think how that would enbolden the chuckers until the cows came home..... instead, a lesson was learned.
hopefully.... stupidity should be painful!
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
North Korea shoots both invaders or it's own people getting too close to the border. Lot's of 'socialist' countries had to shoot their own people who
tried to leave, otherwise nobody would stay. |
Can you please name one "socialist" country who has done this? Some dictatorships, yes, but socialist?
Maybe Denmark, Sweden, Finland, who?????
The report in the paper lost all credibility when they mentioned a rock as big as a basketball --- |
So the shooting never occurred |
I should have clarified --- the report of the circumstances that led to the shooting lost all credibility.
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liknbaja127
Nomad
Posts: 462
Registered: 1-17-2012
Member Is Offline
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These guys are taught how to protect themselves from day one of training. We can all comment, on there actions, But until you walk in there shoes, I
feel it's hard to make judgment. I was also taught not to throw rocks!
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cisco
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
The exact same issue happened a couple of years ago and it was hashed over and over and over right here. Many of the same people who jumped in here
were posting in the string a couple of years ago. Barry was the most vocal and vehement in favor of the shooting of a rock thrower by a border patrol
agent. We went back and forth and it was a total waste of time.
So...why is this new incident surprising or even discussed here? Nothing has or will change in attitudes. The responses are absolute! They are 180
degrees apart. You can count on the responses being given according to their political ideologies.
For Dennis to quote the attitudes of The American Thinker, a Right Wing Rag, as credible, is typical. That publication still makes sure that
Obama's middle name, Hussain, is inserted. They are obsessed by "Communists" and the Liberals enabling poor people with "handouts".
Those who are saying that the rock throwers, or the Border Patrol Agents are stupid does not address the issue. All that does is define what ideology
you subscribe to.
I do not beat around the bush with such distracting drivel.I think the shooting incidences are deplorable! They are inhumane. It is no different than
when Dick Cheney goes hunting in a deer ranch where the deer are trapped by a surrounding fence. The threat to Cheney and his buddies is that a
cornered deer could lash out with their hooves... (or maybe getting shot in the face).
I feel sorry for the families of the deceased. He was some mother's child. (Sound familiar? Hmmm?) I would feel the same for the family of a Border
Patrol Agent who might be killed by an unarmed rock thrower (he was some mother's Oaf), but we all know that hypothetical will never happen. So, cut
the crap in trying to justify this murder. You guys love it. We hate it. You Wingers make me sick! |
Tony----------about my rants------it is not a "ideological" rant, it is a legal rant. How can one "waste time" discussing and correcting legal
matters? What these BP agents are doing is legal, and there are good reasons why it is legal. It is not a moral or political subject-------both
liberal and conservative Agents are in the same legal boat, so to speak---------self defense--------and they would be sanctioned (and worse) if they
did not generally follow policy, and for good reason----they would be endangering other agents if they did not follow policy.
I am sorry if you can't see it that way, but if you don't you simply are wrong. (from a legal standpoint)
Barry
[Edited on 2-20-2014 by Barry A.] |
How about just stepping out of rock-throwing range instead of shooting another human being Barry?
Or do you not consider them human beings as many on this forum dehumanize someone who is not 'just like them'. |
So, you would have police hang back "out of range" or worse, retreat "out of range" so as not have to "shoot another human being"? Interesting!!!
And how would you have the Agents do their job? Lets suppose that the bad guys were suspected of having guns------should they just remain "out of
range", like 2 or 3 etc. miles away? What you are proposing is simply absurd, and renders the Agents as useless and totally ineffective. Like
another said above, these Agents did what they have been TRAINED do do from the git-go-------meet lethel force with whatever force is deemed necessary
to eliminate or neutralize the threat. Police work IS para-military, you know?!?!?!?!?!?
Barry
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Cisco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4196
Registered: 12-30-2010
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cisco
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
The exact same issue happened a couple of years ago and it was hashed over and over and over right here. Many of the same people who jumped in here
were posting in the string a couple of years ago. Barry was the most vocal and vehement in favor of the shooting of a rock thrower by a border patrol
agent. We went back and forth and it was a total waste of time.
So...why is this new incident surprising or even discussed here? Nothing has or will change in attitudes. The responses are absolute! They are 180
degrees apart. You can count on the responses being given according to their political ideologies.
For Dennis to quote the attitudes of The American Thinker, a Right Wing Rag, as credible, is typical. That publication still makes sure that
Obama's middle name, Hussain, is inserted. They are obsessed by "Communists" and the Liberals enabling poor people with "handouts".
Those who are saying that the rock throwers, or the Border Patrol Agents are stupid does not address the issue. All that does is define what ideology
you subscribe to.
I do not beat around the bush with such distracting drivel.I think the shooting incidences are deplorable! They are inhumane. It is no different than
when Dick Cheney goes hunting in a deer ranch where the deer are trapped by a surrounding fence. The threat to Cheney and his buddies is that a
cornered deer could lash out with their hooves... (or maybe getting shot in the face).
I feel sorry for the families of the deceased. He was some mother's child. (Sound familiar? Hmmm?) I would feel the same for the family of a Border
Patrol Agent who might be killed by an unarmed rock thrower (he was some mother's Oaf), but we all know that hypothetical will never happen. So, cut
the crap in trying to justify this murder. You guys love it. We hate it. You Wingers make me sick! |
Tony----------about my rants------it is not a "ideological" rant, it is a legal rant. How can one "waste time" discussing and correcting legal
matters? What these BP agents are doing is legal, and there are good reasons why it is legal. It is not a moral or political subject-------both
liberal and conservative Agents are in the same legal boat, so to speak---------self defense--------and they would be sanctioned (and worse) if they
did not generally follow policy, and for good reason----they would be endangering other agents if they did not follow policy.
I am sorry if you can't see it that way, but if you don't you simply are wrong. (from a legal standpoint)
Barry
[Edited on 2-20-2014 by Barry A.] |
How about just stepping out of rock-throwing range instead of shooting another human being Barry?
Or do you not consider them human beings as many on this forum dehumanize someone who is not 'just like them'. |
So, you would have police hang back "out of range" or worse, retreat "out of range" so as not have to "shoot another human being"? Interesting!!!
And how would you have the Agents do their job? Lets suppose that the bad guys were suspected of having guns------should they just remain "out of
range", like 2 or 3 etc. miles away? What you are proposing is simply absurd, and renders the Agents as useless and totally ineffective. Like
another said above, these Agents did what they have been TRAINED do do from the git-go-------meet lethel force with whatever force is deemed necessary
to eliminate or neutralize the threat. Police work IS para-military, you know?!?!?!?!?!?
Barry |
"So, you would have police hang back "out of range" or worse, retreat "out of range" so as not have to "shoot another human being"
YES! (interesting you use 'retreat') out of rock-throwing range.
"And how would you have the Agents do their job?"
Outside of rock-throwing range certainly is not far enough away for them to "do their job" which I assume is observe.
"Lets suppose that the bad guys were suspected of having guns------should they just remain "out of range", like 2 or 3 etc. miles away?"
My comment regarding stepping out of rock-throwing range had no suppositions attached to it regarding firearms being used by the "other" side and is
not a part of this conversation.
"What you are proposing is simply absurd, and renders the Agents as useless and totally ineffective."
How does stepping out of rock-throwing range render the agent ineffective and useless? It seems you are just building on a higher and higher
supposition which is just BS.
" Like another said above, these Agents did what they have been TRAINED do do from the git-go-------meet lethel force with whatever force is deemed
necessary to eliminate or neutralize the threat."
Seems like getting out of rock-throwing range pretty much neutralizes the threat. Are they taught to do that?
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