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mtgoat666
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This proposed seabed mining offshore mag bay looks alarming
This proposed seabed mining offshore mag bay looks alarming!
http://seekingalpha.com/article/2357095-oceanica-did-not-hav...
http://www.bcsnoticias.mx/oceanica-realizo-360-perforaciones...
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/globenewswire/1...
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wilderone
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I don't think it will happen. Also, they have no money.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/2345235-oceanica-dying-fast-...
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David K
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If you don't like mining on the land, and have an issue with mining the sea, just where are you going to get the materials you all are buying? Until
we can mine the moon and asteroids, there aren't options.
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
If you don't like mining on the land, and have an issue with mining the sea, just where are you going to get the materials you all are buying? Until
we can mine the moon and asteroids, there aren't options. |
I support wilderness preservation, and I think people consume too much for stupid reasons - people should consume less, and replace consumerism with
more sustainable pasttimes.
There are always options.
[Edited on 7-31-2014 by mtgoat666]
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Lobsterman
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I suppose you live in a cave, grow your own fruits and vegetables, have no electronic devices or electricity in your cave and walk to work. If not you
are only fooling yourself with your self-righteousness.
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Tioloco
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Well put. Time for a refrigerated beverage.... I mean cool stream water.
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Pablito1
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Lobsterman,
You said it well. People don't understand that the things that they use everyday have to come from somewhere. Also for sure they don't want "FRACKING"
because they don't get their gasoline from a dirty oil well theirs comes from a clean service station.
Regards, Pablo
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bajabuddha
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pablito1
Lobsterman,
You said it well. People don't understand that the things that they use everyday have to come from somewhere. Also for sure they don't want "FRACKING"
because they don't get their gasoline from a dirty oil well theirs comes from a clean service station.
Regards, Pablo |
Pablito, I agree with both you and Lobsterman. However, fracking has nothing to do with gasoline. You're manzanas y naranjas here. And yes, we need
natural gas from somewhere also, but oil drillers have been leashed enough over the last 100 years of drilling to slow their unabashed rape of the
environment, to get the product responsibly. The gas-getters and their methods are new, and completely un-fettered from the last Administration.
They have virtually no controls governing their exploits once the land-leases have been signed. It ain't a matter of what we need or where we get it
as much as HOW we get it, and what we do to people in the process. Common sense should prevail, but the dollar sign beats it down every time.
I don't have a BUCKET LIST, but I do have a F***- IT LIST a mile long!
86 - 45*
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David K
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What oil companies did 100 years ago has ZERO to do with how oil is extracted today.
It is FAR safer for the environment to get our needed oil from under our nation then to buy it from less environmentally minded places and ship it
across the ocean in tankers.
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Pablito1
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Buda,
I suppose that I don't understand your point. Basically the only real changes that has been made in drilling and production is horizontal drilling.
That's how your state, New Mexico, is benefiting from this latest production increase.
They have been doing "frack jobs" since the 1930s.
Regards, Pablo
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dtbushpilot
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajabuddha
| Quote: | Originally posted by Pablito1
Lobsterman,
You said it well. People don't understand that the things that they use everyday have to come from somewhere. Also for sure they don't want "FRACKING"
because they don't get their gasoline from a dirty oil well theirs comes from a clean service station.
Regards, Pablo |
Pablito, I agree with both you and Lobsterman. However, fracking has nothing to do with gasoline. You're manzanas y naranjas here. And yes, we need
natural gas from somewhere also, but oil drillers have been leashed enough over the last 100 years of drilling to slow their unabashed rape of the
environment, to get the product responsibly. The gas-getters and their methods are new, and completely un-fettered from the last Administration.
They have virtually no controls governing their exploits once the land-leases have been signed. It ain't a matter of what we need or where we get it
as much as HOW we get it, and what we do to people in the process. Common sense should prevail, but the dollar sign beats it down every time.
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I've been in the oil and gas business for 40 years buddah. I have hands on knowledge of the industry from exploration, drilling, production and
delivery of both oil and natural gas. I have witnessed many changes over the years in the energy industry. I don't arrive at a conclusion about this
industry from my couch watching msn or surfing the left wing internet sights.
I can say from real world experience that your representation of the oil and gas industry is pure BS.
"Life is tough".....It's even tougher if you're stupid.....
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bajabuddha
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"Also for sure they don't want "FRACKING" because they don't get their gasoline from a dirty oil well..."
Pablito, what I meant (with the 'apples and oranges') was gasoline/crude oil doesn't come from fracking. The fracking debacle is from going after
natural gas. That was my only point with you; otherwise, I was agreeing with you.
I do know about horizontal drilling; I lived on the edge of the Aneth oil field for 8 years, and a close friend is one of the leading
petroleum-geologists of the area. Had many a discussion about the subjects... both crude and gas drilling.
Fracking is taking horizontal drilling and then 'fracturing' the shales to make impermeable levels of rock permeable, and then pressuring it to force
gasses to other drill vents over a large area; so's oil mining now with salt slurries.
New Mexico is part of that find, but all the 'benefits' go to the Navajo Nation more than the State. New Mexico gets far more revenue from the Feds
in research/development areas now, both from Sandia Labs and Los Alamos. Otherwise, we're at the bottom of the heap money-wise in the Nation.
I don't have a BUCKET LIST, but I do have a F***- IT LIST a mile long!
86 - 45*
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bajabuddha
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DT, you used to be such a nice person. I'm not a "couch watching msn or surfing the left wing internet sights" guy. Guess we all have a little BS in
us.
I don't have a BUCKET LIST, but I do have a F***- IT LIST a mile long!
86 - 45*
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mtgoat666
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full-scale seabed mining of phosphate has NEVER been done before. you want mag bay and san ignacio offshore shelf to be the guinea pig? you want a
permanent turbidity cloud from dredging in these commercial fishing waters? it will be permanent in your time frame, many decades of dredging,...
millions of tons per year.
peace out!
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
What oil companies did 100 years ago has ZERO to do with how oil is extracted today.
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it must have something to do with how oil is extracted today. heck, the same companies extracting 100 years ago are the same companies doing so
today!
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dtbushpilot
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajabuddha
DT, you used to be such a nice person. I'm not a "couch watching msn or surfing the left wing internet sights" guy. Guess we all have a little BS in
us. |
I can assure you Buddha that I am the same person I've always been.
I seldom get involved in this type of discussion on Nomads because they usually degrade to arguments over talking points provided by ones favorite
news source rather than real life knowledge or experience.
Interesting to know that you lived near the Aneth area, a good amount of my early work was in that area as well (did I mention that my company's main
office is in Farmington NM?). The Aneth field was explored and produced by a number of resource companies, many of them small producers. The governing
body was, as you mentioned the Navajo Tribe. The tribal government wasn't as interested in safety and cleanliness as most government or other
controlling entities, the dollar was king. There was (is) a good deal of corruption in the tribal government and as a result the Aneth field was a
dirty, polluted, unsafe place where we didn't particularly like to work, besides, the gnats were oppressive. They were referred to as "no seeums" but
they were so big that you could seeum  .
That was a long time ago, I haven't been out that way in 20 years or so. I hope they have cleaned up their act up there.
The San Juan Basin (northern New Mexico) is one of the largest natural gas fields in the country. The oil and gas industry is what fuels the economy
of the area as well as the rest of the state. It has been the dominate job and income producing industry for about 70 years. Farmington has an
excellent oil and gas history museum, you should check it out if you are ever in the area. It is interesting and informative regardless of your
feelings about the energy industry.
I have no doubt that your friend is an expert in his field. If he has been around for a while (40 years or so) I'm sure he can tell you stories about
how it was "back in the day" as opposed to how the industry in general is now. There have been lots of changes in how things are done with safety
being at the forefront. When there is an accident or pollution causing spill everyone loses and the oil companies go to great expense to prevent such
incidents.
There are hundreds of thousands of people working daily on oil and gas sites and related industries throughout the country, the vast majority of them
are well paid and do their job in a safe, efficient manner. Their employers provide more benefit than you can imagine for our country in jobs,
inexpensive energy, and trillions of dollars in tax revenue for local and federal governments.
I know what you are probably thinking "oil and gas corporations don't pay taxes, they get huge handouts from the government". It is after all a
popular left wing talking point that is of course total nonsense. The tax dollars that the energy companies pay are substantial but the real money is
represented in taxes that the employees are able to pay because they have a good job, the taxes that the car dealers, grocery stores, and restaurants
pay because they have customers with good jobs. Let's not forget all of the small companies (I can think of one) that provide equipment and services
to the energy industry that employ thousands of people in generally well paying jobs and pay somewhere in the neighborhood of 40% of their income in
taxes. Apparently our company isn't owned by one of those "political cronies" that we hear so much about that pay no taxes and get huge government
handouts. Come to think of it I don't know of anybody in our industry that meets that description, surely they exist, msn wouldn't make that up.
I guess you can see why I don't usually get involved in this type of discussion, it's too much work and I won't change anybody's mind with my
seemingly endless drivel. I just thought perhaps someone would enjoy an observation from one who has and does walk the walk.
I think I see roosters chasing bait on the beach, better grab my rod and join in.....
"Life is tough".....It's even tougher if you're stupid.....
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dtbushpilot
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
What oil companies did 100 years ago has ZERO to do with how oil is extracted today.
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it must have something to do with how oil is extracted today. heck, the same companies extracting 100 years ago are the same companies doing so
today! |
goat, don't try to beat DK in the "stupid comment" division, he is a pro. I must admit though, with this last comment of yours you may be taking the
lead....
"Life is tough".....It's even tougher if you're stupid.....
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micah202
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| Quote: | Originally posted by dtbushpilot
Interesting to know that you lived near the Aneth area, a good amount of my early work was in that area as well (did I mention that my company's main
office is in Farmington NM?). The Aneth field was explored and produced by a number of resource companies, many of them small producers. The governing
body was, as you mentioned the Navajo Tribe. The tribal government wasn't as interested in safety and cleanliness as most government or other
controlling entities, the dollar was king. There was (is) a good deal of corruption in the tribal government and as a result the Aneth field was a
dirty, polluted, unsafe place where we didn't particularly like to work, besides, the gnats were oppressive. They were referred to as "no seeums" but
they were so big that you could seeum .
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....so your company knew that enforcement of laws wouldn't be an issue,,,took advantage of it!!?....I can picture those frackers in mexico doing the
same thing....that attitude,,on any scale is something that is well beyond what we can afford.
...in a world where population and consumption graphs are on an exponential -explosion-,,,it's time that we realize that it DOES matter what we do
when 'nobody's looking'.......the retort of 'how you going to consume the same' is nothing but sadly laughable....we simply cannot continue as we
were...period.
...have at it
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bajabuddha
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DT, was in Montezuma Creek and Aneth just 4 weeks ago. The stench of crude in the bottoms along the river is still unbearable, and the Local
no-see-ums still have horrible congenital health problems from years of living in it. My geo-bud still works the fields around there monitoring new
wells for the Bad Gas stages in the upper Pennsylvanian layers. You probably know him; he's been there 40 years and still working it. His initials
are G. S. , lives in Bluff. Grouchy old curmudgeon, unlike the rest of us. I also battled a few oil well fires in that area when I was a VFF.
I don't have a BUCKET LIST, but I do have a F***- IT LIST a mile long!
86 - 45*
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dtbushpilot
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| Quote: | Originally posted by micah202
| Quote: | Originally posted by dtbushpilot
Interesting to know that you lived near the Aneth area, a good amount of my early work was in that area as well (did I mention that my company's main
office is in Farmington NM?). The Aneth field was explored and produced by a number of resource companies, many of them small producers. The governing
body was, as you mentioned the Navajo Tribe. The tribal government wasn't as interested in safety and cleanliness as most government or other
controlling entities, the dollar was king. There was (is) a good deal of corruption in the tribal government and as a result the Aneth field was a
dirty, polluted, unsafe place where we didn't particularly like to work, besides, the gnats were oppressive. They were referred to as "no seeums" but
they were so big that you could seeum .
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....so your company knew that enforcement of laws wouldn't be an issue,,,took advantage of it!!?....I can picture those frackers in mexico doing the
same thing....that attitude,,on any scale is something that is well beyond what we can afford.
...in a world where population and consumption graphs are on an exponential -explosion-,,,it's time that we realize that it DOES matter what we do
when 'nobody's looking'.......the retort of 'how you going to consume the same' is nothing but sadly laughable....we simply cannot continue as we
were...period.
...have at it |
Well, unfortunately by the time I got to the beach with my rod the roosters were too far down the beach for me to catch up with them...oh well, maybe
next time.
You make an interesting, if not predictable observation micah, as it is really hot today and I'm sitting in the shade I'd be happy to take a moment to
"have at it".
I was working in the Aneth field in the early 1980's, at the time my company consisted of me and a welding truck. Back then I didn't have a shop, most
of my work consisted of field work mostly for small producers. One of my customers bought a group of existing oil wells in the Aneth field, one of
their programs for the leases was to clean up the sites and install safety equipment on the pump jacks on the newly acquired leases. The pump jacks
were mostly older equipment oozing fluids here and there, most had no belt or weight guards in place. My job was to build and install belt and weight
guards and install spill containment rails and pans under the equipment. They also removed contaminated soil and other reclamation projects in the
newly acquired leases. even back then responsible companies were starting to clean up their act.
I know you were hoping for a home run with your assertion that my company was reaping huge profits at the expense of the environment but in reality
you only fouled one off, sorry to disappoint.
It seems that I have gotten off the topic of the original thread (how often does that happen?:lol . I can't really take an informed stand on either side of the issue but just speaking from a historical point Mexico
doesn't exactly have the best track record of protecting the environment where resource extraction projects are concerned.
I have never been to a Pemex oil field location or hydrocarbon processing plant, I have a picture in my mind of the old days in Aneth but don't know
for sure. I believe that Mexico has and will continue to step up their safety practices in these projects just like we have in the US. It seems as
though they are a generation behind us in environmental awareness but they are making progress....time will tell.
BTW: for the record, I think sea bed mining in Mag Bay is a really bad idea....
[Edited on 7-31-2014 by dtbushpilot]
"Life is tough".....It's even tougher if you're stupid.....
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