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bufeo
Senior Nomad
Posts: 793
Registered: 11-16-2003
Location: Santa Fe New Mexico
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| Quote: | | Originally posted by dasubergeek...And you don't think that, upon declaring that you are taking, say, $45,000 out of the country, that
they'll seize it anyway and make you prove you didn't obtain it through nefarious means? It isn't as simple as showing a withdrawal from a U.S. bank,
after all. |
Yes, it is. Been there; done that. Not only was none of our money confiscated, aside from the form there were hardly any questions.
Allen R.
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
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Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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Easy squeezy if you have documentation on origination of funds (home sales contract and bank deposit and withdrawal documents. Just declare, fill out
the fed form and go
| Quote: | Originally posted by bufeo
| Quote: | | Originally posted by dasubergeek...And you don't think that, upon declaring that you are taking, say, $45,000 out of the country, that
they'll seize it anyway and make you prove you didn't obtain it through nefarious means? It isn't as simple as showing a withdrawal from a U.S. bank,
after all. |
Yes, it is. Been there; done that. Not only was none of our money confiscated, aside from the form there were hardly any questions.
Allen R. |
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by dasubergeek
| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
Ron, the problem is that we demand these things in one way or another.
Stop the cartels! secure the border! stop off-shore accounts and tax fraud! and on and on.
sounds good when we demand things ... but we do not like any of the solutions.
Actually, it is very easy to declare money taken out of the country. I learned the hard way but that is a different story.
one page form....easy
There is no limit on the amount of money that can be taken out of or brought into the United States. However, if a person or persons traveling
together and filing a joint declaration (CBP Form 6059-B) have $10,000 or more in currency or negotiable monetary instruments, they must fill out a
"Report of International Transportation of Currency and Monetary Instruments" FinCEN 105 (former CF 4790). |
And you don't think that, upon declaring that you are taking, say, $45,000 out of the country, that they'll seize it anyway and make you prove you
didn't obtain it through nefarious means? It isn't as simple as showing a withdrawal from a U.S. bank, after all. |
THey did not with me...nor others who have built in Mexico.
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bufeo
| Quote: | | Originally posted by dasubergeek...And you don't think that, upon declaring that you are taking, say, $45,000 out of the country, that
they'll seize it anyway and make you prove you didn't obtain it through nefarious means? It isn't as simple as showing a withdrawal from a U.S. bank,
after all. |
Yes, it is. Been there; done that. Not only was none of our money confiscated, aside from the form there were hardly any questions.
Allen R. |
Yez sir....nottin to it....unless you got something to worry about. Makes you wonder about some people.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17332
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cisco
The FAIR Act: New bill aims to reign in policing for profit
A rare opportunity to reduce the federal government's ability to steal your stuff.
Posted on July 29, 2014 by Site Staff in Politics
Policing for profit.
One of the many abusive procedures used in modern policing is known as civil asset forfeiture. When it is applied, police officers and investigators
confiscate property — cash, vehicles, equipment, bank accounts, real estate — based on the mere suspicion that it may be involved with criminal
activity. The owner is robbed, for all intents and purposes, without any establishment of guilt.
The legal basis for “forfeiting” property is so loose that often a person might lose his possessions and be let go without any criminal charges. The
owner is then tasked with fighting in court to get the property returned, a process that can be lengthy and cost-prohibitive. Additionally, police and
district attorneys typically get to keep what they seize, and use it to redouble their forfeiture efforts.
The official DEA Asset Forfeiture Program patch.
The official DEA Asset Forfeiture Program patch.
Employment of the dubious tactic has been on the rise, primarily in the name of drug prohibition, and facilitated through the use of domestic spying.
Since 2001, the total amount of property seized annually by the DEA has soared by 200 percent! NSA surveillance technology has been a boon to those
in the business of plundering without due process.
Besides endlessly harassing people over victimless crimes, asset grabbers also roll up a number of people who have not even broken the law. One
elderly Massachusetts couple had their family-based motel seized by the U.S. Department of Justice. Another recent example occurred when a man who
had just won big at a Las Vegas casino had his cash seized during a traffic stop. None of these parties were charged with a crime, and eventually
fought to get their property back in court. However, the vast majority of victims of civil asset forfeiture will never have their story told.
This week, U.S. Senator Rand Paul (R-KY) introduced S. 2644, the Fifth Amendment Integrity Restoration Act, otherwise known as the FAIR Act. Senator
Paul’s office described the bill in a press release:
U.S. Senator Rand Paul
[S. 2644] would protect the rights of citizens and restore the Fifth Amendment’s role in seizing property without due process of law. Under
current law, law enforcement agencies may take property suspected of involvement in crime without ever charging, let alone convicting, the property
owner. In addition, state agencies routinely use federal asset forfeiture laws; ignoring state regulations to confiscate and receive financial
proceeds from forfeited property.
The FAIR Act would change federal law and protect the rights of property owners by requiring that the government prove its case with clear and
convincing evidence before forfeiting seized property. State law enforcement agencies will have to abide by state law when forfeiting seized property.
Finally, the legislation would remove the profit incentive for forfeiture by redirecting forfeitures assets from the Attorney General’s Asset
Forfeiture Fund to the Treasury’s General Fund.
Although civil asset forfeiture is a problem in every state, some of the abuse arises from the incentives offered for getting the federal government
involved. State laws that might otherwise prevent abusive confiscations can be circumvented if the local cops invite the DEA, ATF, FBI, or similar
federal agency to take over an investigation. In these “equitable sharing” situations, the feds take a cut of the loot and return the rest to the
local agency — as much as 80 percent. Needless to say, the system is rife with corruption and encourages predatory policing.
The Hartford (Connecticut) Police Department proudly shows off seized and repurposed property.
The Hartford (Connecticut) Police Department proudly shows off seized and repurposed property.
The FAIR Act puts forth three core reforms to federal civil asset forfeiture practice: (1) it would eliminate most of the direct incentives driving
asset forfeiture abuse by directing forfeiture proceeds to the U.S. Treasury department’s general fund, in lieu of the DOJ’s asset forfeiture fund;
(2) it would prevent state and local police from evading state laws governing the availability of civil forfeiture and the distribution of forfeiture
proceeds (“equitable sharing” or “adoption”); and (3) the Act would increase the Government’s burden of proof for a forfeiture, from a preponderance
of the evidence standard to that of a clear and convincing evidence standard — the standard originally proposed for the Civil Asset Forfeiture Reform
Act of 2000 by the late Henry Hyde.
“The federal government has made it far too easy for government agencies to take and profit from the property of those who have not been convicted of
a crime,” Senator Paul said. “The FAIR Act will ensure that government agencies no longer profit from taking the property of U.S. citizens without due
process, while maintaining the ability of courts to order the surrender of proceeds of crime.”
To accompany Paul’s efforts in the Senate, U.S. Representative Tim Wahlberg (R, MI-7) introduced H.R. 5212; slightly weaker than the FAIR Act but
still attacking the same systematic problem.
Deputy Lee Dove of the Humboldt County Nevada Sheriff's Department poses with cash confiscated during a traffic stop. The driver claimed he won the
money in a Las Vegas casino; he was never charged with a crime. (Source: Facebook)
Deputy Lee Dove of the Humboldt County Nevada Sheriff’s Department poses with cash confiscated during a traffic stop. The driver claimed he won the
money in a Las Vegas casino; he was never charged with a crime. (Source: Facebook)
“In a country founded on principles of due process and property rights, we should not be promoting a system where an individual’s property may be
seized without a finding of guilt,” explained Rep. Walberg. “Reform to our civil asset forfeiture laws is necessary to ensure the federal government
can no longer profit from the unjust seizure of property.”
Americans for Forfeiture Reform (AFR), an advocacy group that exposing forfeiture abuse and lobbies for policy change, has publicly endorsed the FAIR
Act and is promoting its passage.
“The FAIR Act is a substantial reform of federal civil asset forfeiture,” AFR founder Eapen Thampy told Police State USA. “It includes three key
reforms: legislative re-appropriation of forfeiture revenues, a mandate that state and local law enforcement receiving forfeiture funds obey state
laws regarding the disposition of those funds, and a mandate that the government must show clear and convincing evidence of wrongdoing before property
is forfeited in court.”
“While these reforms will not totally end abuses of the system,” Thampy explained, “they will substantially level the legal playing field for victims
of forfeiture and re-empower voters by reinstituting the legislative power of the purse over law enforcement. Additionally, drug policy and criminal
justice reform advocates will find that asset forfeiture’s role as a key economic engine of drug prohibition and police militarization will be
substantially constrained if FAIR is passed.”
I am unable to post photos.
There are some excellent exploratory photos associated with this article at:
http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/the-fair-act/ |
the problem is that there are more bad cops than good cops, and the proportion of bad cops is growing every day.
after the police state becomes severe, citizens militias will have to overthrow the abusive cops and reform police departments using psych tests to
weed out the bad apple applicants.
IN THE MEAN TIME, TRUST NO COP!
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Tioloco
Super Nomad
Posts: 1409
Registered: 7-30-2014
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"Innocent until proven guilty"
Better to have 10 guilty people walk free than 1 innocent wrongly convicted.
Also remember that CBP has a very bad record of corruption.... not necessarily a good idea to tell them much.
I guess it is better to give up all freedoms so we have a perception of more "security".
SAD story. 
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bufeo
Senior Nomad
Posts: 793
Registered: 11-16-2003
Location: Santa Fe New Mexico
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| Quote: | | Originally posted by Cisco...The one I posted above was not about leaving the country. It was seized in country with no charges filed.
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Well, I'm confused. When you write "The one" are we supposed to look at the OP? There you clearly wrote,
" On April 2, 2014, Ms. Faren tried to board Delta Air Lines Flight 275 to the Philippines. At Detroit Metropolitan Airport, she was stopped at a
federal checkpoint by U.S. Customs and Border Protection agents and scrutinized about what she, as an American citizen, was carrying out of the
country."
I believe the Philippines are still considered "out of the country", so she must have been going through U.S. Customs. Maybe I'm wrong.
Allen R.
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Chupacabra
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Posts: 476
Registered: 7-11-2013
Location: La Jolla, CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
I agree there is a legal basis for it but the system is way out of whack if the same system does not easily provide a means for someone legit, who
obtained the money legally, to recuperate the cash without having to hire a lawyer.
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There is a legal basis from expatriation of US currency. She chose to ignore it and instead try and smuggle the cash out in her panties.
Most likely she was trying to evade taxes on profits from her home sale.
************************************
WTF
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Tioloco
Super Nomad
Posts: 1409
Registered: 7-30-2014
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Avoid taxes on her home sale? That's a stretch.....
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Tioloco
Super Nomad
Posts: 1409
Registered: 7-30-2014
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Many Seem to be missing the point.... Her money to do with what she wants... PERIOD. Gubment doesn't need to know chit. Her biz ness.
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Tioloco
Many Seem to be missing the point.... Her money to do with what she wants... PERIOD. Gubment doesn't need to know chit. Her biz ness.
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A land without laws?
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Tioloco
Super Nomad
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Rts-
I didn't say, nor do I believe we should have no laws.
Having said that, I do not believe you can ever legislate your way to nirvana. We are losing our freedoms that make the U.S. What it once was.
Open your eyes,America...
Every freedom given up has a big consequence.
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amigobaja
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Posts: 151
Registered: 6-3-2009
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Investors business daily this week had an article about asset forfeiture. They had many recent events listed that's happening all across the so called
land of the free. Young couple in Texas pulled over because they fit the look of drug traffickers. Carrying 8000.00 cash. No drugs,no drug history,no
criminal record two kids in the car. Ended up walking away from the money that they were going to use to buy a car with. could not afford the legal
battle. Older retired couple in Philadelphia grandson sold a small amount of weed to a police informant. Police confiscated the couples house and sold
it at auction for what the police claimed to be drug dealing on the property. No charges ever filed against grandson. A motel owner on record helped
the police over 15 times arrest people dealing drugs from the hotel. Police decided to many drug problems so they did an asset forfeiture on the motel
owners. When idiots tell me they would never invest in Mexico because of the Govt seizing their property I just chuckle and let them stay ignorant. I
fear the U.s.govt. way more then Mexican govt. I personally have been forced four different times to sell portions of properties I did not want to
sell nor receive anywhere near the value to me of the properties by the State of Calif. One reason amongst many that I moved out of that state and
considering the U.S completely.
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Tioloco
Super Nomad
Posts: 1409
Registered: 7-30-2014
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Well said, amigo. California has made doing business in California impractical. Unfortunately, it seems contagious.
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Tioloco
Rts-
I didn't say, nor do I believe we should have no laws.
Having said that, I do not believe you can ever legislate your way to nirvana. We are losing our freedoms that make the U.S. What it once was.
Open your eyes,America...
Every freedom given up has a big consequence. |
I only reply, because like a lot of others, you bemoan the "police state", repressive government, or what ever. Nothing to replace it with....in
other words (and I am just guessing here) You don't want drug cartels in our country but you don't like the laws that are meant to restrict their
activities without an alternative solution.
Thank goodness you have the freedom to express the opinion and vote for those that might implement your desires. That is the true freedom of our
country.
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Tioloco
Super Nomad
Posts: 1409
Registered: 7-30-2014
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Rts-
I am not bemoaning anything.
I am realistic that a nanny state will leave your grandchildren with a lot less opportunity available than what our parents had. I am all for personal
responsibility.
Unfortunately, I think I will have to tell you in the future, "I told ya so".....
But by then, it will probably be too late.
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Tioloco
Super Nomad
Posts: 1409
Registered: 7-30-2014
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It appears as though more and more people are starting to realize something has to be done to correct this path. I sure hope so. And this has nothing
to do with either political party. This is about civil liberty and personal responsibility.
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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Tio, I remember people saying the exact same thing 50 years ago. The less opportunity part did come about...about 10 years ago. I worry too...worry
that emotion will take precedent over common sense.
Hopefully you and I can look back at this in 20 years.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Tioloco
Rts-
I am not bemoaning anything.
I am realistic that a nanny state will leave your grandchildren with a lot less opportunity available than what our parents had. I am all for personal
responsibility.
Unfortunately, I think I will have to tell you in the future, "I told ya so".....
But by then, it will probably be too late. |
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cisco
| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
| Quote: | Originally posted by Tioloco
Rts-
I didn't say, nor do I believe we should have no laws.
Having said that, I do not believe you can ever legislate your way to nirvana. We are losing our freedoms that make the U.S. What it once was.
Open your eyes,America...
Every freedom given up has a big consequence. |
I only reply, because like a lot of others, you bemoan the "police state", repressive government, or what ever. Nothing to replace it with....in
other words (and I am just guessing here) You don't want drug cartels in our country but you don't like the laws that are meant to restrict their
activities without an alternative solution.
Thank goodness you have the freedom to express the opinion and vote for those that might implement your desires. That is the true freedom of our
country. |
Hey RTs. I'm bemoaning all of the .... you are putting out.
Too many folks are getting good information from this thread and I don't want to see it taken off or sent to OT because of what I would like to say to
you.
So, why don't we meet over on off-track and continue our conversation without garbaging up this important topic.
Toodles.... |
The cesspool? No thanks. Nothing any good ever comes out of there and I can' stand the smell.
Yes they are getting good info relevant to the price we are paying to try and secure the border. A baja topic.
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danaeb
Senior Nomad
Posts: 991
Registered: 11-13-2006
Location: San Diego; El Centenario
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Mood: groovy
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For those of you who feel that your freedoms and liberties have been take away, what specific freedoms have you, personally lost, and when did you
lose them?
Experience enables you to recognize a mistake every time you repeat it.
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