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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64490
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by astrobaja
David your comments are beyond ignorant even for you!! We have over 20 years of experience with horses in our business, horses are flight animals,
they panic when frightened! This idiot driver should have stopped a few minutes and let them settle down and then proceed! These horses will have
suffered severe hoof bruising and if one of them was a pregnant mare she could very well have aborted after been run full out for this long! Clearly
the drivers were getting their jollies by doing this reprehensible act of cruelty! Hopefully there will be some repercussions for this act, it
reflects badly on the whole racing community! |
Even for me, Mike?
I can't see the entire Baja 1000 coming to a stop because of some loose horses. A motorcycle racer died when he hit a cow or deer last year. Now that
is a tragedy, but I heard no outrage when a human is hurt or killed like these running horses have caused. Priorities are interesting sometimes.
Like those in the video, other horses will just get off the road when they are done running in front of the truck. No horses were hit or even look
bothered. However, if you think stopping would have encouraged them to get off the race course, then great. I hope SCORE makes an announcement to that
bit of expertise. I don't want horses hurt... but running is what horses naturally do.
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monoloco
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Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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I could understand it if there was a race underway, but these guy were just pre-running and should have cut the horses a little slack.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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TMW
Select Nomad
Posts: 10659
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
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I have come upon horses and cows in the road in Baja and they will run ahead even when there is a place to pull over. Cows tend to leave the road way
sooner that a horse. Horses will run for a long way. I have stopped and I've slowed way down but until the horse decides he wants to get off the trail
he won't. The race truck was not going fast as some of you think or claim and the horses were not in a full gallup for any length of time. When I've
been behind horses like this they usually run about 10mph. They start fast but slow.
Some interesting facts about horses.
Horses speed varies with their stride length, body build, and other factors, but here is a basic idea of how fast-- in miles per hour-- horses move at
their various gaits:
Walk: Roughly 3-4 MPH. A pleasure show horse can go as slow as 2 mph. Gaited horses-- who do not trot-- can do a 'running walk' as fast as 15 mph.
Trot: The trot is roughly 8-10 MPH. Again, a shorter striding horse could trot slower, and a horse with a long stride could move faster.
Canter/Lope: 10-17 MPH.
Gallop: This depends on the horse's condition and athletic ability. Some horses are not built to run fast an may only do a fast canter at their best;
however, the gallop is about 30 mph. Thoroughbreds, which are bred for running distance but not speed, have been clocked at over 40 MPH. Quarter
horses, bred and raced for short distances at speed, can reach 50 MPH in short bursts according to the AQHA's website.
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durrelllrobert
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7393
Registered: 11-22-2007
Location: Punta Banda BC
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Mood: thriving in Baja
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Pre runners vs. helicopters
Since 1976, the BLM has used helicopters. Flying at low altitudes, bureau agents drive the herds (of wild horses) for miles to an area where they are
then loaded onto trucks headed for a holding center. Agents may bring in an entire herd and then winnow out adoptable horses or take in a band out of
an entire herd. Depending on its size, a roundup can last for several days or several weeks.
The bureau maintains that helicopters are the most humane way of driving these wild animals across plain and mountain ridge to the centers, but animal
activists disagree. The Fund for Animals argues that the sound of the helicopters can spark panic in wild horse herds and place undue stress on the
animals — particularly in late winter or during droughts. Of particular concern are mares that are pregnant during the roundups. Foals, unaccustomed
to running long distances, can also suffer various limb injuries that make them unsuitable for adoption.
Once at the holding area, wild horse specialists separate the animals according to sex and age. Mares with foals are kept apart. The bureau states
that it makes “every effort” to reunite mares with lost foals. Agents then decide which horses are eligible for adoption, which go into a federal rest
home, and which are returned to the range.
.How many horses does the BLM roundup each year?
Totals and the frequency of the roundups vary according to the target area. Local BLM officers decide upon the figure based on periodic studies meant
to indicate how many horses can co-exist with native wildlife and domestic livestock and still have adequate access to water and fodder. Some horse
advocates question this practice and argue that the 1971 act and a subsequent 1992 regulation does not empower the Bureau of Land Management with
decision-making powers about the removal of wild horses. They claim that only the Secretary of the Interior can make binding decisions on wild horse
removal strategies. In fiscal 2003, the BLM removed 10,091 horses from public
rangesurl=http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/episodes/clouds-legacy-the-wild-stallion-returns/wild-horse-...]http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/episodes/cloud
s-legacy-the-wild-stallion-returns/wild-horse-...[/url]
[Edited on 10-30-2014 by durrelllrobert]
Bob Durrell
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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Say what you might in support of "chasing horses" (the title of the video), but this tyoe of activity is what makes it difficult to organize races in
Baja. I have been a part of organizing local races and find it hard to argue with land owners when they bring this (and other stuff up). What do I
do? tell them don't worry it does not hurt the animal. In my discussions with the folks that organized this years route through San Quintin, the
number 1 concern from ranchers and farmers was the inconsiderate behavior of racers as they passed through these peoples livelihood. It took a lot of
convincing to organize the route. It only takes one video like this to destroy the trust that was built. We need to think beyond our own motivations
and worry about what others might think if this sport is to continue. Where is Racers and Ranchers when you need them.
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motoged
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Posts: 6481
Registered: 7-31-2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
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Mood: Gettin' Better
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I think that an experienced horse owner/trainer could offer an opinion that would be helpful in this discussion, more than those simply justifying and
rationalizing such behaviour. 
Anybody out there have such experience?
Don't believe everything you think....
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Paulina
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3810
Registered: 8-31-2002
Location: BCN
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I own a quarter horse.
He is my fourth horse, so I would say I was "experienced".
I would be angry.
P>*)))>{
\"Well behaved women rarely make history.\" Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64490
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Paulina
I own a quarter horse.
He is my fourth horse, so I would say I was "experienced".
I would be angry.
P>*)))>{ |
If you didn't see the video before it was removed, it was the typical driver's view from inside a race truck in central Baja (boojums and cardon
cacti)... a single track dirt road... and he came upon some horses who were running (either already or when they heard the truck approach).
The truck never got closer than a few car lengths and maintained a safe distance while he followed the running horses. They did not step off the road,
even when wide clearings were passed, until a couple minutes elapsed, then finally moved off the road and into the desert.
He obviously was pre-running and did not come to Baja to find horses and chase them. Some here obviously think his calling the video "chasing horses"
somehow made him anti-horse... as it would seem by their reactions here? Maybe a dumb choice of words on his part?
As a horse expert Paulina, if you rounded a bend and see a couple of horses running the same direction as you... would you:
a) Follow them until they got off the road, maintaining your distance?
b) Stop and have a Pacifico while they hopefully ran away?
c) Abandon your day's event and go back to camp?
d) other
If you stopped for a beer, and come upon the same horses up the road, how do you get them out of the way so you can continue with your life that day?
They could be on the road that goes back to your camp!
Thanks Paulina! Happy Halloween!!
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chuckie
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6082
Registered: 2-20-2012
Location: Kansas Prairies
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Mood: Weary
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The fact is, the horses are NOT your horses, and the only opinion that counts is that of the person that owns them. If he she feels that was a bad
thing,then it was a bad thing. We will likley never know.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17336
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by Paulina
I own a quarter horse.
He is my fourth horse, so I would say I was "experienced".
I would be angry.
P>*)))>{ |
If you didn't see the video before it was removed, it was the typical driver's view from inside a race truck in central Baja (boojums and cardon
cacti)... a single track dirt road... and he came upon some horses who were running (either already or when they heard the truck approach).
The truck never got closer than a few car lengths and maintained a safe distance while he followed the running horses. They did not step off the road,
even when wide clearings were passed, until a couple minutes elapsed, then finally moved off the road and into the desert.
He obviously was pre-running and did not come to Baja to find horses and chase them. Some here obviously think his calling the video "chasing horses"
somehow made him anti-horse... as it would seem by their reactions here? Maybe a dumb choice of words on his part?
As a horse expert Paulina, if you rounded a bend and see a couple of horses running the same direction as you... would you:
a) Follow them until they got off the road, maintaining your distance?
b) Stop and have a Pacifico while they hopefully ran away?
c) Abandon your day's event and go back to camp?
d) other
If you stopped for a beer, and come upon the same horses up the road, how do you get them out of the way so you can continue with your life that day?
They could be on the road that goes back to your camp!
Thanks Paulina! Happy Halloween!! |
dk,
the horses were obviously running from the car, and doing so because disturbed/frightened. the driver should have stopped and waited for horses to
get clear of road, and driven FAR behind, not following close at speed. quit being a jerk and admit the driver was irresponsible. the sponsors
should be told of the racers irresponsible behavior, dont know why you insist on defending a racers' bad behavior.
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J.P.
Super Nomad
Posts: 1673
Registered: 7-8-2010
Location: Punta Banda
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Mood: Easy Does It
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Chaseing Livestock
David K. Please Rave on I like hearing from People like You. People with the same mindset as yours do more to hasten the end too the nonsense Than
anyone else.
Why should some knuckle dragging clown with your mindset be allowed to continue to disrespect the land owners and the people of Baja in General.
I can possibly see the driver's and Co drivers doing a Pre. Run of the course. but not the whole crew including some of the local idiots and their
hashed up rig's.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17336
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
We will always look at the same thing and see differently of what happened. I saw horses running... that's a normal behavior and happens no matter if
it is a race truck or a VW spooking them. Not running them off the road (as he could have would have) still made him a jerk in your eyes. He waited
until they got off the road to pass them by... seems harmless to me, but I asked a horse person for her opinion. |
it is a recurring theme we hear about all the time: knuckledraggers running down livestock and wildlife on ATVs, off road vehicles and snow machines.
this type of behavior and people like DK that defend such behavior are why i support closing of public lands to offroading. a few bad apples ruin it
for the rest, and better to shut it all down if the the users wont police their bad apples.
if groups cannot responsibly use public lands, best to ban the users
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LancairDriver
Super Nomad
Posts: 1587
Registered: 2-22-2008
Location: On the Road
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I have seen Deer and Elk panic and continue running down the road for as long as someone will chase them. The sensible thing to do is simply stop and
let them calm down and they will get off the road. The horses in this video obviously weren't running for their exercise. I hope after this run they
had a source of water close by.
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
Member Is Offline
Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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SCORE International, UPS and the UPS Store corporate HQ were notified and sent copies of the video. RESPONSIBLE and concerned responses from UPS and
UPS store corporate HQ were received............we will see how this plays out.
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
".........the sponsors should be told of the racers irresponsible behavior........" |
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
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yes, by multiple people thanks to a few other sites.
| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
SCORE International, UPS and the UPS Store corporate HQ were notified and sent copies of the video. RESPONSIBLE and concerned responses from UPS and
UPS store corporate HQ were received............we will see how this plays out.
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
".........the sponsors should be told of the racers irresponsible behavior........" |
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motoged
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6481
Registered: 7-31-2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
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Mood: Gettin' Better
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Maybe someone can get DK to start jogging down a Baja rough road (he needs the exercise :lol and follow him "a few car-lengths behind" with a loud truck until he decides to get off the road.
If someone can arrange that, I volunteer to video the excitement from the truck. 
The ranchers I have talked to locally about this situation seem to agree that the truck should have backed off and presented less of a threat to the
animals. They were clear that if they saw someone driving like that around their livestock they would make a point of "correcting the situation" .
Don't believe everything you think....
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Katiejay99
Nomad
Posts: 429
Registered: 9-3-2008
Location: Todos Santos
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Mood: it is what it is
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Ok here are my 2 centavos worth. Why can't you just call an idiot an idiot and go on with your life? Those people who want everything "fixed" or the
whole world to pay for the actions of an idiot are idiots themselves. I mean why shut down roads, close accesses, reroute races (and the list goes on
and on) because some idiot acted out?
This is one of the reasons why I live in Mexico. If some idiot screws up, those that be do not feel like they have to be our dads (or uncles) and make
everyone pay for it. Here, they actually accept that life is not perfect.
Someone screwed up - live with it.
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
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Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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And they should be held responsible
| Quote: | Originally posted by Katiejay99
Someone screwed up - live with it. |
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chuckie
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6082
Registered: 2-20-2012
Location: Kansas Prairies
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Mood: Weary
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Well! Theres a good attitude.....F*** em if they cant take a joke...
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DanO
Super Nomad
Posts: 1923
Registered: 8-26-2003
Location: Not far from the Pacific
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Paulina
I own a quarter horse.
He is my fourth horse, so I would say I was "experienced".
I would be angry.
P>*)))>{ |
I agree. My dad raised horses in Oroville, CA when I was a kid, and I spent a good deal of time riding, feeding and tending to them. They tend to be
high strung and skittish, and they can seriously injure themselves when panicked. I've seen what happens when a frightened horse runs through a
barbed wire fence. The proper way to deal with this is to stop and let them move on, or, if you really need to get somewhere in a hurry (in Baja?),
gently shoo them out of the way. If they're not familiar with you, just approaching them -- slowly, and preferably on foot -- should be enough to
move them along.
\"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.\" -- Frank Zappa
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