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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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Quote: Originally posted by David K  | | Using the old trail is respecting its purpose. Destroying it with a highway or other man made thing on top of it is something you may wish to target.
Thank you for your interest in El Camino Real. |
sorry to disillusion you..David. But motos and cars are man made things that you are promoting on top of this trail.
Hard to fathom for you isn;t it.... lok at it this way...man mad cars...not god.
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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Tread lightly folks.....through the desert that is.... DK, well he is his own worst enemy. go for it
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AKgringo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5819
Registered: 9-20-2014
Location: Anchorage, AK (no mas!)
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Mood: Retireded
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Man made the Camino Real also! God doesn't exactly help maintain it, that part is up to us!
I personally would not run anything over the historic trails, but does marking them to keep folks like me off, cause others to ride them for bragging
rights?
That is not sarcasm, I really wonder about that.
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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There are some that think that things are to be used up...especially when they are marked to be saved.
Me. I put 2000 miles on my quad last year...and stayed on existing trails.
Also did about 5 off-road races...on established courses....I hate it when it is ruined by some that believe they do not need to protect it...just
take pictures of it after they run amuck....
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BajaRat
Super Nomad
Posts: 1302
Registered: 3-2-2010
Location: SW Four Corners / Bahia Asuncion BCS
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Mood: Ready for some salt water with my Tecate
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Not a question of can we, but should we. It is not an off road vehicle trail.
Doesn't this fall under destruction of archeological or cultural sites of importance 
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17344
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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Riders that respect the land stay on established roads and trails. Riders that venture off established trails are irresponsible and have no valid
excuse for their actions. . The path that David k is promoting is not an established trail. It is an old and now little used foot path that has mostly
returned to nature. David k and his offroad buddies are marooons. There is no defense of their stupid and utterly irresponsibile actions.
On top of the general disrespect for the land, the trail is thought by some to be a nice historic landmark,... Which makes their offroad travel on the
trail even more disrespectful.
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4x4abc
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4171
Registered: 4-24-2009
Location: La Paz, BCS
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Mood: happy - always
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| Quote: Originally posted by BajaRat | Not a question of can we, but should we. It is not an off road vehicle trail.
Doesn't this fall under destruction of archeological or cultural sites of importance
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I think, this is a valid point. Should we?
If we decide we should/could - then how?
I have been in the off-road business for almost 30 years. Wherever we go, we leave destruction behind. Lack of skills, lack of care, lack of concern.
And no, it's not the bad apples, not the 5%. It's the 95%.
TreadLightly? Sounds good. Feels good. But most people's interpretation of it makes me cry. The campaign has failed miserably.
All vehicles have the potential to leave no trace or to scar the ground. Motorcycles are the worst. It's part of how they maintain traction. The
4-wheeled vehicles are right behind.
Widowmaker used to be a bumpy uphill drive - then driven to schits by clueless drivers with spinning tires etc. Spinning tires erode lose dirt away
from the rocks. It got pretty challenging. That's why it's now called widowmaker.
The Rubicon Trail (not in Baja but relevant) used to be a 1800's stage coach road, professionally built with a fine gravel top. A bumpy Sunday drive
in the 1950's. Then driven to schits by thousands of thrill seekers. They eroded the ground to the point that boulders the size of houses got exposed.
The road got really challenging. That attracted more thrill seekers. The historic roadway got completely destroyed in the process.
I looked up the single track in question. You don't need a GPS any longer. It is such a well travelled motorcycle highway now that it stands out on
Google Earth.
Don't get me wrong - I am not promoting closure of everything beyond pavement. Discovering, search of solitude, search of beauty are such strong
motivators. We have to keep those urges alive.
But the question is, how can we do that without leaving deep scars in the landscape we love so much.
Have been looking for an answer for 30 years - have not come up with one that works.
Harald Pietschmann
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MMc
Super Nomad
Posts: 1679
Registered: 6-29-2011
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Mood: Current
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Why, when somebody asks for beta for a trip, can't be emailed to them instead of posting it here? (This is a rhetorical question)
If a person is willing to use beta from a person they don't know, they might be heading for a ADVENTURE unprepared.
Asking somebody that doesn't ride, about a trail they haven't been on,or a storm has come through since they were on it, might not be the best
plan.=ADVENTURE
If you can't do your own planing for a trip should you go? Yes, asking people for beta is part of the planing. I'd be looking for somebody that has
done it or has current first hand info. Posting sat. photos really does not help with planing.=ADVENTURE
I love a real ADVENTURE, many do not.
There are some very good off road folks that are very good at what they do. Go to Johnson Valley or Glamis and see what the rest do.
Adventure = Placing oneself and consenting friends in possible harms way, not expecting any rescue.
"Never teach a pig to sing it frustrates you and annoys the pig" - W.C.Fields
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MMc
Super Nomad
Posts: 1679
Registered: 6-29-2011
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Mood: Current
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Having meet and helped people that were ill prepared and unskilled because of this board in some places they didn't belong, changes your view.
Just recently, helped a guy dig his Subaru out of a river bed, he was going to a place he had read about here. No shovel, no tire pump, high centered
in a dry river bed. He had been there for 2 hours and we saw nobody in the 1.5 hours to get him out. He and his Girl would have had a long walk to
get help. He didn't want me to snatch him out as he was afraid of what it would do to car.
| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | If it isn't used it will vanish forever. If it isn't on Nomad does not make it not happen. Stop chasing newbies away because they enjoy life
differently from you. |
"Never teach a pig to sing it frustrates you and annoys the pig" - W.C.Fields
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4x4abc
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4171
Registered: 4-24-2009
Location: La Paz, BCS
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Mood: happy - always
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Thank you MMc!
Thank you for: "Never teach a pig to sing it frustrates you and annoys the pig" - W.C. Fields
I have been offering help to so many - only to make enemies. I know that people hate to be confused by facts, but W.C. Fields expresses it best.
Gracias!
[Edited on 12-21-2014 by 4x4abc]
Harald Pietschmann
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
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Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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I cannot begin to count all the wonderful places that I have now visited over the years by being alerted to their existence by reading posts like
these, and I am extremely grateful. The fact that some will not properly prepare themselves before going is always surprising, no mind-blowing, to
me--------do they not take responsibility for themselves??
I do hope that most will continue to tell other's of the wonderful and exciting places they visit, or propose to visit---------THAT is what I am
looking for-----always!!!
As a "Desert Ranger" for many years, I KNOW that most of the crowds using their "off road vehicles" in the desert try hard to not damage the
resource-----it's the uncaring few that do most of the damage. Management of those areas is all a tradeoff, and the truth lies in-between somewhere,
thus the establishment of "open areas" where you can drive most anywhere, to all kinds of restrictions that are tailored to the situation and area.
It's all a judgment call. But just "keeping people out" is tragic, and never really works-------the good people cannot see the area, and the bad
people will drive in anyway.
Barry
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redhilltown
Super Nomad
Posts: 1130
Registered: 1-24-2009
Location: Long Beach, CA
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"And I am in no mind to direct you to delectable places toward which you will hold yourself less tenderly than I."
Mary Austin, "Land of Little Rain" 1903
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paranewbi
Senior Nomad
Posts: 913
Registered: 4-15-2011
Location: San diego
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Little Dutch Boy, The
by Peter Miller
"Dutch legend has it that there was once a small boy who upon passing a dyke on his way to school noticed a slight leak as the sea trickled in through
a small hole. Knowing that he would be in trouble if he were to be late for school, the boy pocked his finger into the hole and so stemmed the flow of
water. Some time later a passerby saw him and went to get help. This came in the form of other men who were able to effect repairs on the dyke and
seal up the leak.
This story is told to children to teach them that if they act quickly and in time, even they with their limited strength and resources can avert
disasters. The fact that the Little Dutch Boy used his finger to stop the flow of water, is used as an illustration of self-sacrifice. The physical
lesson is also taught: a small trickle of water soon becomes a stream and the stream a torrent and the torrent a flood sweeping all before it, Dyke
material, roadways and cars, and even railway tracks and bridges and whole trains.
This tale originates from the American writer Mary Mapes Dodge and is in fact not a real myth, although many people believe it is. She published this
tale in 'Hans Brinker, or the Silver Skates' in 1865. The Little Dutch Boy is a very popular myth in the United States (and other countries), but is
not well known in the Netherlands and has probably been imported there by American tourists."
Most important point here? "imported there by American tourists".
Hey, that's me, and you.
We're legendary!
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KasloKid
Nomad
Posts: 326
Registered: 8-29-2009
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My tongue hurts from biting it for the length of this discussion.
I believe it's important to accept the fact that there are two sides to this debate, and neither side is going to win.
What is important though, is the fact that Mexico is a sovereign nation, and if there was/is a move afoot in that country by people who are citizens
of that country, to push back and preserve areas of importance, they would do so.
Nothing peees me off more than a foreigner coming into my country (Canada) and dictating what and how we should be thinking. It is none of their dam
business. Period. They do not have a license to preach and impose their ideology upon a sovereign nation.
Agree to disagree folks.
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El Sauz
Newbie
Posts: 12
Registered: 12-13-2014
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Yes KasloKid, Mexico is a sovereign nation. It is clearly inappropriate to go down there and knowingly destroy cultural sites. If you guys do not
understand this then stay home and stop giving us all a bad name.
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
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Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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Exactly the way I feel about Canadians sticking their nose into how the US is run or how we do things in the states.
| Quote: Originally posted by KasloKid |
...............Nothing peees me off more than a foreigner coming into my country (Canada) and dictating what and how we should be thinking. It is
none of their dam business. Period..........
Agree to disagree folks. |
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El Sauz
Newbie
Posts: 12
Registered: 12-13-2014
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| Quote: Originally posted by BajaRat | Not a question of can we, but should we. It is not an off road vehicle trail.
Doesn't this fall under destruction of archeological or cultural sites of importance
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Yes
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KasloKid
Nomad
Posts: 326
Registered: 8-29-2009
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| Quote: Originally posted by bajaguy | Exactly the way I feel about Canadians sticking their nose into how the US is run or how we do things in the states.
| Quote: Originally posted by KasloKid |
...............Nothing peees me off more than a foreigner coming into my country (Canada) and dictating what and how we should be thinking. It is
none of their dam business. Period..........
Agree to disagree folks. |
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Hmm, that is funny. I thought it was the other way around. My Canadian friends and myself just bring money and spend lots of it.
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TMW
Select Nomad
Posts: 10659
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
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This is getting more fun to read everyday. Keep up the good work Nomads.
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South beach
Newbie
Posts: 4
Registered: 12-21-2014
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Any useful input helpful, also planning ride early jan. Across this trail.
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