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Marla Daily
Nomad
Posts: 418
Registered: 9-2-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
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On September 25, 1988 Junipero Serra was beatified by Pope John Paul II at the Vatican. Through a series of circumstances, I was fortunate to be
invited to attend the ceremony. I was seated on the elevated platform outside the Basilica, seven rows to the side of the Pope's left elbow. The
Queen of Sweden sat in front of me. The ceremony was spectacular, with 17,000 people of faith crowded in St. Peter's Square below.
I am not a Catholic. As a cultural anthropologist, however, I am fascinated by the strikingly powerful display of ritual. I enjoy learning of other
people; other customs and beliefs.
A mere 27 years later, on September 23, by invitation I will be at the National Shrine in Washington, D.C. to witness the canonization of Junipero
Serra.
I'm looking forward to it.
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vgabndo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3461
Registered: 12-8-2003
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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Quote: Originally posted by David K  | If Father Serra had only performed just one gay marriage, then he would be a hero to the left instead of an enemy. Of course even better if he were to
denounce God! Think about that!
(as DT pointed out Sargento, there is not much hope of turning norte back north) |
Guaranteeing gay Americans their Constitutional rights is not a "left/right" thing. Although denying them their rights has certainly been a popular
cause with homophobic Christian right wingers.
Joseph Goebbels was a highly talented and accomplished professional in his field. Contemporary media outlets, one of which I assume is important to
you, are still using many of the principles he espoused. The problem is that his work contributed to the brainwashing, imprisonment, forced labor, and
deaths of a lot of people. This was also the case with Serra. We don't build monuments to honor people like that. We recognize that they had a place
in history, and if we are smart we insure that history doesn't repeat itself. The Christian Spaniards tried to rule the world just like the Christian
Germans later tried. The brutal imperialism of Christian nations dominates world history but we need, in the 21st. century, to make wiser choices and
honor more honorable people. I doubt that you agree with me, but the real heroes of the American west sold guns to the Indians.
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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MMc
Super Nomad
Posts: 1679
Registered: 6-29-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: Current
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This is all true, but a bunch of Indians died Catholic and their souls were saved, lets not forget what's important;.
Move over I need some Kool-Aid.
| Quote: Originally posted by vgabndo | | Quote: Originally posted by David K | If Father Serra had only performed just one gay marriage, then he would be a hero to the left instead of an enemy. Of course even better if he were to
denounce God! Think about that!
(as DT pointed out Sargento, there is not much hope of turning norte back north) |
Guaranteeing gay Americans their Constitutional rights is not a "left/right" thing. Although denying them their rights has certainly been a popular
cause with homophobic Christian right wingers.
Joseph Goebbels was a highly talented and accomplished professional in his field. Contemporary media outlets, one of which I assume is important to
you, are still using many of the principles he espoused. The problem is that his work contributed to the brainwashing, imprisonment, forced labor, and
deaths of a lot of people. This was also the case with Serra. We don't build monuments to honor people like that. We recognize that they had a place
in history, and if we are smart we insure that history doesn't repeat itself. The Christian Spaniards tried to rule the world just like the Christian
Germans later tried. The brutal imperialism of Christian nations dominates world history but we need, in the 21st. century, to make wiser choices and
honor more honorable people. I doubt that you agree with me, but the real heroes of the American west sold guns to the Indians.
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"Never teach a pig to sing it frustrates you and annoys the pig" - W.C.Fields
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3455
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K |
Let me ask this, is there some sort of point system employed here to bring up my name or initials when I suggest 'thinking' rather than just following
what the CNN and MSNBC reports say? It sure is done a lot by a few of you here?? |
David -- what reports do you recommend instead of CNN and MSNBC? I follow all of them -- even mildly interested in what Rush and Beck have to say.
What makes you think nomads don't think?
Why do you make everything left or right?
Why must you continually ''suggest'' anything political or think it's your job to ''enlighten'' nomads, generally, about your politics?
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: Skeptical
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| Quote: Originally posted by DianaT | | Quote: Originally posted by David K | If Father Serra had only performed just one gay marriage, then he would be a hero to the left instead of an enemy. Of course even better if he were to
denounce God! Think about that!
(as DT pointed out Sargento, there is not much hope of turning norte back north) |
Trolling again? You are so good at it and so good at twisted statements.  |
DK is just having a Huckabee moment while on the toilet.  He claims
innocence by stating that he only exists here to supply Baja history and to help people, but then he trolls with such biased, inflammatory, ignorant
statements and ruins it. How can anybody give him any credibility as a historian when he ruins it like this? Why would anybody even look at his Baja
history posts except for extreme right wingers who tune in for that instead of the history. Help people?
Why am I even commenting on this DK thread? I too was on the toilet and just couldn't hold it.
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
Member Is Offline
Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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Marla......Why Washington, DC instead of Spain or Mexico??
| Quote: Originally posted by Marla Daily | On September 25, 1988 Junipero Serra was beatified by Pope John Paul II at the Vatican. Through a series of circumstances, I was fortunate to be
invited to attend the ceremony. I was seated on the elevated platform outside the Basilica, seven rows to the side of the Pope's left elbow. The
Queen of Sweden sat in front of me. The ceremony was spectacular, with 17,000 people of faith crowded in St. Peter's Square below.
I am not a Catholic. As a cultural anthropologist, however, I am fascinated by the strikingly powerful display of ritual. I enjoy learning of other
people; other customs and beliefs.
A mere 27 years later, on September 23, by invitation I will be at the National Shrine in Washington, D.C. to witness the canonization of Junipero
Serra.
I'm looking forward to it. |
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vgabndo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3461
Registered: 12-8-2003
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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| Quote: Originally posted by toneart | | Quote: Originally posted by DianaT | | Quote: Originally posted by David K | If Father Serra had only performed just one gay marriage, then he would be a hero to the left instead of an enemy. Of course even better if he were to
denounce God! Think about that!
(as DT pointed out Sargento, there is not much hope of turning norte back north) |
Trolling again? You are so good at it and so good at twisted statements.
rquote]
DK is just having a Huckabee moment while on the toilet. He claims
innocence by stating that he only exists here to supply Baja history and to help people, but then he trolls with such biased, inflammatory, ignorant
statements and ruins it. How can anybody give him any credibility as a historian when he ruins it like this? Why would anybody even look at his Baja
history posts except for extreme right wingers who tune in for that instead of the history. Help people?
Why am I even commenting on this DK thread? I too was on the toilet and just couldn't hold it. |
I don't know anything about helping people, Tony, but I found his book on a friend's shelf and read it. It doesn't take long. I found it thin both
physically and in content. I've been a history writer/researcher/speaker for decades and I was unimpressed. If it had been a dinner invitation, my
reaction would have been akin to going home hungry. I went on line and read a few pages that I found much more satisfying. That's just me. I was
reminded of the old TV commercial: "Where's the beef?" Admittedly, I would never have bothered to read anything about Catholics bickering among
themselves in the course of subjugating indigenous peoples had I not a certain knowledge of one of the authors.
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Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
Member Is Offline
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Why are they doing this? Who are they pandering to? I see no big movement among the California Spanish community. There's nothing on Latino television
or in their newspapers. The only “Indians” complaining about this are small bands, many of whom never even lived in areas affected by the missions!
[/rquote] Maybe because the cultures that did live in the areas affected by the missions were destroyed by them.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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sargentodiaz
Nomad
Posts: 259
Registered: 2-20-2013
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by monoloco |
Why are they doing this? Who are they pandering to? I see no big movement among the California Spanish community. There's nothing on Latino television
or in their newspapers. The only “Indians” complaining about this are small bands, many of whom never even lived in areas affected by the missions!
[/rquote] Maybe because the cultures that did live in the areas affected by the missions were destroyed by them. |
Indians thrived in the mission areas when they were run by the Franciscans. Unlike what the PC crowd wants you to think, deaths among the mission
Indians was no worse than before the arrival of the friars.
The tribes were NOT even wiped out by Mexican rule that took the missions away from the friars AND the indians. The greatest harm to California
Indians came from the AMERICAN GOVERNMENT OF THE STATE.
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