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sargentodiaz
Nomad
Posts: 259
Registered: 2-20-2013
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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Santo Junipero Serra
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64490
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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HERE is what Sargento Diaz tried to post above:
Hola Sargento,
Nomad forum had issues for a few months not allowing some things to show here if they were pasted or had Spanish letters.
The source is your blog: http://msgdaleday.blogspot.com/2015/03/father-serra-controve...
Here the post (with quotation marks, at symbols, dashes, and apostrophes removed):
Father Serra A Controversial Canonization
Where is the controversy coming from? The Left, of course.
Yes, Serra was a zealous missionary and he took away ancient Indian cultures from the natives of California.
But, just what was that culture other than living like animals, day to day, with no future and never traveling more than one day from where they were
born. Crouching in the rain or starving when there was none. Being fodder for the massive Grizzly Bears that freely roamed the area.
All they had to look forward to from the day of their birth was hardship leading to eventual death. Father Serra and his fellow missionaries gave them
filled bellies, relief from harsh weather and the hope that there was something more to life than just dying and ending it all.
Anyhow, the story is at http://americamagazine.org/issue/controversial-canonization
[Edited on 4-25-2015 by David K]
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Jack Swords
Super Nomad
Posts: 1094
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: Nipomo, CA/La Paz, BCS
Member Is Offline
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diacritical marks don't post?
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Mexitron
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3397
Registered: 9-21-2003
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy!
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Quote: Originally posted by David K  | Hola Sargento,
New Nomad softwear doesn't allow Spanish letters (n with tilde over it, u with two dots over it, and accent marks) or copy and paste from other
locations if there are any apostrophes, dashes, symbols, or quotation marks.
The source is your blog: http://msgdaleday.blogspot.com/2015/03/father-serra-controve...
Here the post (with quotation marks, at symbols, dashes, and apostrophes removed):
Father Serra A Controversial Canonization
Where is the controversy coming from? The Left, of course.
Yes, Serra was a zealous missionary and he took away ancient Indian cultures from the natives of California.
But, just what was that culture other than living like animals, day to day, with no future and never traveling more than one day from where they were
born. Crouching in the rain or starving when there was none. Being fodder for the massive Grizzly Bears that freely roamed the area.
All they had to look forward to from the day of their birth was hardship leading to eventual death. Father Serra and his fellow missionaries gave them
filled bellies, relief from harsh weather and the hope that there was something more to life than just dying and ending it all.
Anyhow, the story is at http://americamagazine.org/issue/controversial-canonization
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That's one of the most one dimensional views of the native Americans I've ever seen. I have no problem if the religios want to make Serra a saint,
times being what they were, but to portray all native Californians and Baja Californians as merely being fodder for grizzlies just shows a complete
lack of knowledge of the hundreds of different tribes/civilizations that inhabited this complex region before the Europeans and United States ran it
over.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Native_American_tribes...
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sargentodiaz
Nomad
Posts: 259
Registered: 2-20-2013
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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Ambiguities about Serra should not discount sainthood, panelists say
My first reaction: What “ambiguities?” The man spent almost every hour of his entire life dedicated to what he deeply felt – the spread of
Christianity to disbelievers and helping Iron Age peoples advance into the 18th Century. He did not enslave anybody. Nor did he cruelly beat or
torture a single one.
If he was evil, why did peoples who had never traveled more than one day's distance from their homes travel hundreds of miles to pass by the Blessed
Father's grave?
Let's cut to the chase and celebrate Blessed Father Serra for what he was – the dedicated leader of men who devoted their life to their deepest
beliefs.
Read more @ http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1501767.htm
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Martyman
Super Nomad
Posts: 1904
Registered: 9-10-2004
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Whenever I see that sun with sunglasses I slide on past. I think that is why people are switching over to facebook from nomads. It's a shame.
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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How are fervent religious missionaries doing for you in the middle east?
Same thing. Different company.
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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Absolutely.
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3779
Registered: 2-9-2004
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"...dedicated to what he deeply felt – the spread of Christianity to disbelievers"
What about what the original inhabitants of the land deeply felt? The original cultures had beliefs - not the same beliefs of the Spaniards and Fr.
Serra. Did Fr. Serra respect their beliefs? No he did not. Instead of he made slaves of them. Not even respect of humanity did Fr. Serra have. The
Spaniards brought disease that killed masses of original inhabitants. The Spaniards should be condemned in history, not made saints.
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vandenberg
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5118
Registered: 6-21-2005
Location: Nopolo
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Mood: mellow
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Like all history,the so called facts are written by the victors.
No different for religious history.
Western countries subjugated peoples all over this world and claim all progress. Not good when you there saying "Yessuh"
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bajabuddha
Banned
Posts: 4024
Registered: 4-12-2013
Location: Baja New Mexico
Member Is Offline
Mood: Always cranky unless medicated
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"Disbelievers" = "Infidels" = "Libtards" = "Teabaggers" = ....NEXT?
I don't have a BUCKET LIST, but I do have a F***- IT LIST a mile long!
86 - 45*
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sargentodiaz
Nomad
Posts: 259
Registered: 2-20-2013
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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The hatred and misunderstanding is expected,
What beliefs did the natives have before the arrival of the friars? Do you know? Have you ever researched their cultures? Do you even know if they
believed in a Creator Spirit or Supreme Being? What did they believe about death?
So - here it is. Giving birth was as the animals did it - squat and drop the baby on the ground and cut or gnaw the umbilical. If the baby suckled,
fine. If not, it was left to die.
Education was simply letting them imitate what their elders did. They had no medicine people except for a few gaining power over the group by mumbo
jumbo. They did not know and seldom used herbal medicines.
They lived every day aware that death was coming and the huge majority never traveled more than one day from where they were born. They spent every
waking hour searching for food and simply lay down where they were when the sun fell.
Their homes were temporary made of the crudest of structures, usually brush twined together.
Do you know what Father Serra and the friars offered them to live a better life?
Probably no.
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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Annihilation and death of a culture is a better life?
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MMc
Super Nomad
Posts: 1679
Registered: 6-29-2011
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Mood: Current
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You all are looking at this from your point of view. From a Catholic point of view, Sierra was very successful. He came, he converted, wound up with a
1000 mile peninsula, and filled it full of Catholics. All good! Even if they died from western introduced sickness their souls died saved. Lets make
him a saint.
I am not a believer but I understand their point of view.
"Never teach a pig to sing it frustrates you and annoys the pig" - W.C.Fields
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by sargentodiaz | The hatred and misunderstanding is expected,
What beliefs did the natives have before the arrival of the friars? Do you know? Have you ever researched their cultures? Do you even know if they
believed in a Creator Spirit or Supreme Being? What did they believe about death?
So - here it is. Giving birth was as the animals did it - squat and drop the baby on the ground and cut or gnaw the umbilical. If the baby suckled,
fine. If not, it was left to die.
Education was simply letting them imitate what their elders did. They had no medicine people except for a few gaining power over the group by mumbo
jumbo. They did not know and seldom used herbal medicines.
They lived every day aware that death was coming and the huge majority never traveled more than one day from where they were born. They spent every
waking hour searching for food and simply lay down where they were when the sun fell.
Their homes were temporary made of the crudest of structures, usually brush twined together.
Do you know what Father Serra and the friars offered them to live a better life?
Probably no.
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Sounds like an idyllic life to me.
And there's plenty of mumbo jumbo to go around. Visit the global warming threads.
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grizzlyfsh95
Nomad
Posts: 226
Registered: 1-8-2010
Location: East Cape
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| Quote: Originally posted by Martyman | Whenever I see that sun with sunglasses I slide on past. I think that is why people are switching over to facebook from nomads. It's a shame.
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So much for enlightened discussion. If you don't parrot what I think,I'm taking my ball and going home. NaNaNa.
The harder I work, the luckier I get
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grizzlyfsh95
Nomad
Posts: 226
Registered: 1-8-2010
Location: East Cape
Member Is Offline
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You are equating homosexual men's activity to infidels? Really? Teabaggers?
The harder I work, the luckier I get
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luv2fish
Nomad
Posts: 455
Registered: 5-8-2011
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by sargentodiaz | Ambiguities about Serra should not discount sainthood, panelists say
My first reaction: What “ambiguities?” The man spent almost every hour of his entire life dedicated to what he deeply felt – the spread of
Christianity to disbelievers and helping Iron Age peoples advance into the 18th Century. He did not enslave anybody. Nor did he cruelly beat or
torture a single one.
If he was evil, why did peoples who had never traveled more than one day's distance from their homes travel hundreds of miles to pass by the Blessed
Father's grave?
Let's cut to the chase and celebrate Blessed Father Serra for what he was – the dedicated leader of men who devoted their life to their deepest
beliefs.
Read more @ http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1501767.htm |
VIVA PADRE SERRA Y LA SANTA VIRGENCITA.....
Oh its so nice that tolerance is also extended to my people of Christian belief. Life is good.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17335
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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What happened to the natives was genocide. Whether it was purposeful or not is still a matter of debate. We do know that the record keepers were the
church, and the church has a habit of hiding facts and spinning the facts to fit it's own purposes.
Was junipers Serra a saint? Who knows? Did a culture get wiped out under his watch? Yes.
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Ateo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5847
Registered: 7-18-2011
Member Is Offline
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Before you start spreading your ideas, make sure they are based in reality and that the evidence supports your beliefs!
We are still digging out from the bad ideas in the bible, and other "holy" books.
Thank the Enlightenment for neutering some of the gnarly stuff we used to do to each other in the name of religion.
You knew I couldn't hold back for too long! 
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