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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Yeah and TalkBaja has been shut down ...
Where are the post's that were taken down ... as a good investigator certainly you would have gotten a "screen shot' to document what you are now
saying
Last post on the thread was yesterday at 5:35PM and by Doc Holiday ... who ever that is
Say, Pete .... What's your handle over on FB 
I'm sure there are more than a few that would just love to "see" ya out in the open 
I'm sticking with Doug's post .. on the matter of the posters .. until someone proves differently
Got it ... IT didn't happen unless it is on the "internet" or has an "open" investigation ... right pal
How many have been arrested in the deaths of those 43 Students ? or the ten's of thousands that have been found in unmarked grave sites .. get a clue
A good slap in the face ... is good at times to wake one up
I still wouldn't worry about it ... If in Baja .. as it isn't the "norm" for most tourists or those that live there
[Edited on 2-12-2016 by wessongroup]
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
Member Is Offline
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Quote: Originally posted by Lee  | | Quote: Originally posted by Pescador | | If you want to play junior detective that is fine, but it would be beneficial to keep your thoughts to yourselves. |
Beneficial?
Lighten up pes. Like chuck, you are very passionate and perhaps a bit emotional and over the top with your condemnation and name calling. Who
put you in charge of anything around here?
I might be wrong here. I'm thinking Joe has an equal vote and opinion as you do. His posts are too long and complicated for me to follow.
Maybe you should skip his posts too? Just a thought. |
Lee, you are absolutely right. I never bother to read anything that jjj posts and only got upset because he was stirring up chit that did not need to
be stirred up. I was interested enough to go talk to people in the know because I live in the area of Santa Rosalia and felt it was important. If
jjj, or you choose to discount my discoveries, so be it. You are the ones who will lose if you travel the area and get carjacked because you had your
head so far up your .......... that you failed to change your behavior. Your choice entirely.
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad as hell
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| Quote: Originally posted by rts551 | | rumors, rumors, rumors...now the rumor is it was a road rage thing after he ran someone off the road (wide load trailering the boat)...who
knows....but you are right...nothing in the news. |
Actually, a roid rage incident, sounds more believable than a random attack on the family by three Mexicans armed with a hammer, baseball bat, and
knife.
But it's confusing with all these different first, second, and third hand accounts of the incident in Santa Rosalia.
First, Kevind's second hard account, from the alleged victim the father, said, the military check point and Mexican soldiers outside of San Ignacio,
were involved with this incident, first by delaying the second caravan car, and then by running the family off the road, and then breaking the car's
windows with the hammer, and dragging the family out of the car. Kevind's also said, both the mother and daughter, recognized the perpetrators and
they wore military uniforms.
The mother's account, over at Facebook, did not differ than much from Kevind's second hand report from the father, except the mother said, she was
sleeping in the back, and couldn't recognize the perpetrators, but she was pretty sure they were wearing military uniforms. I'm sorry, I didn't take a
screen shot, but now the mother is no longer a member of "Talk Baja," and her posts deleted, and second handed eyewitness, Doc Holiday, is also no
longer a member of Talk Baja, and one of his main threads were pulled. ( I'm not sure what Wesson was looking at)
And now we have pescador's, version, which would be considered a third handed version, and pescador says, and I'll quote him below:
pescador wrote: They were passed by the king cab vehicle who passed them and then pulled sideways in the road before assaulting them. The
perps were not seen at the checkpoint. It did occur at Cuesta de Infierno, which is the Santa Rosalia Grade, near the bottom.
_______________________
So whose version of the event should we believe?
Well, if you listen to pescador, he seems to be implying, if you discount his version of the incident , then you run the risk of getting carjacked
and you will lose.
Since two versions of this incident, doesn't actually put the blame on the Mexican soldiers outside of San Ignacio, can we take them off the suspect
list. Maybe, we can get pescador, to go visit the Military check point and apologize for all these wild allegations against them, which included
attempted kidnapping of an underage girl at knife point?
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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And most can't know what YOU are "quoting" as you don't support what you say with ANYTHING ... Other than speculation and/or conjecture ... on a event
which in fact happened as their is a poster over their that saw the folks at the medical aid location or very shortly after
Put "IT" up .... I'm sure Doug would work with you on this ... as would Ron or DK ... As they seem somewhat balanced in their approach to things like
this, opposed to you ... and Ron has first hand experience on getting the chit beat out of him along with his wife
As for NOT happening ... This from a poster at the other site ... where one's identity is KNOWN
"We met these lovely unsuspecting folks after they arrived to La Ventana~witness to the physical aftermath, stitches, plaster cast and bruises all
the while surprisingly resilient attitude~this was a heinous crime~Pray for Mexico~" ...
I left the posters name off ... for obvious reasons .... but, one can find it on Talk Baja ... and one could ask the individual questions ... directly
!!
I haven't followed this ... until someone start making less than reasonable comments about the individuals involved ... And no, I do not know them ...
but, can feel for them ...
It's no fun to get taken down like that ... no matter where ya are
Let alone having someone say, ya didn't get the chit beat out of you and your family rousted ... cuz, it's not in the news, on internet or under
"INVESTIGATION" by the Mexican Police .... please
Leave them alone ...think they are painfully aware of what can happen ... both from the locals and some posters on some web sites
[Edited on 2-12-2016 by wessongroup]
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad as hell
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Wesson, I'm going to have to pass to even attempt to answer your questions, because for one thing, I can't understand what you're saying, they're
silly questions, or they're irrelevant to this topic, and it doesn't appear you''re up to speed.
Some of your questions are game type questions, like questioning the obvious, like wanting to see screen shots, you know full well have been pulled
from "Talk Baja" like the alleged mother's posts she made over at "Talk Baja' but now have been pulled. Do I really need to provide screen shots of
that, when probably over 1000 people, saw her posts over at "Talk Baja?" I don't play those type of games.
Another example, I said, Doc Holiday's membership has been deleted, and his main thread was pulled from Talk Baja, and you tried to tell me, "what
are you talking about, he just posted there at Talk Baja yesterday.
A simple membership search at "Talk Baja" would have cleared this up for you and showed you were wrong. So it makes me wonder why kind of games are
you playing?
Wesson, try to speak only for yourself, not Doug, Ron, or DK, whoever that is.
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad as hell
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BTW, I did contact the U.S Consulate a few days ago, and asked my own questions, and related by own concerns about this alleged incident, and other
concerns that I had unrelated to this alleged incident.
The reason why I have not posted what they told me, is because I want to keep other people's posts honest, in case they try to say they are privy to
what the U.S Consulate, is doing regarding this alleged case, and possible investigation. That alone, gives a hint what they told me.
Here is the first auto reply I received from them, and on the following day, they actually replied to my email:
__________
Thank you for your inquiry. We have received your e-mail and will make every effort to respond within two business days. If your e-mail
requires action on the part of another entity, we will forward your inquiry to the appropriate Consulate General office or U.S. Government Agency. If
you desire to speak to us by phone, please call us at 011-52-664-977-2000 and ask for the American Citizen Services Unit.
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad as hell
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I love this thread so much, to see the group think on "Baja Nomad, and "Talk Baja" of just automatically believing anything written on "Baja Nomad"
without question. Many here, are so quick to believe the absolutely worst about Mexicans, and take the words of strangers, as long as they are of
course, both white, and American.
If this was a trial or real investigation, by attorneys, judges, or police detectives, on either side of the border, they would throw this case out so
fast your heads would spin!
You have the two star witness victims, the father, and mother stories differ so much in material facts, it's not even funny. Of course, one of those
stories came from a newbie from "Baja Nomad" who claims he heard first-hand from the father, and alleged victim.
The other story, comes from the mother, who went over to Talk Baja, to answer 'soft ball" questions from Ron, and she really didn't offer anything
new, except to disagree on a material fact of the story involving the Mexican military's involvement, and if she recognized her perpetrators, and if
he wore a military uniform.
How could the father and mother, have such far apart different answers?
The father, through Kevind, claims the Mexican Military was involved, first by stopping the other caravan car, and then having three Mexican military
men in uniform, block the road and then come after the family with weapons, and he said his wife can identify the bad guys!
The mother's story was that she was sleeping in the back seat, and really couldn't identify the perpetrators, but she said they were wearing uniforms.
She also added, that perhaps her and her daughter were dressed too provocatively, wearing hoodies, and loose fitting clothing, and next time she will
dress down. (Who says things like that? )
This is just a couple of questions I have, I have a whole host of things that don't make sense from this story!
Of course, now the mother disappeared from Talk Baja Facebook, and all her posts are removed, and she pulled her pictures from her light Facebook
page, that didn't match the male victim in the hospital picture. ( light Facebook pages with little information or photos are often fake Facebook
pages)
The other second hand eyewitness, hell raiser, Doc Holiday, is gone too. ( he claims to be a second hand eyewitness)
Yes, I have many questions about his alleged incident, and I see no reason in the world, for the alleged victims to go into hiding if they are back in
the states. If they fear something, then they should have kept quiet and not said anything at all, or asked their second hand reporters to pull their
stories.
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Well for starters the individual who was beaten .. Is clearly seen ... He's not hidding behind some "Avatar" ... making statements on his experiences
... In this attack
Or are you stating that these injuries were affected by the "members" of the Caravan ? ... Yeah, now that makes a lot of sense
And where did I speak for anyone ... other than myself
Or, are you stating here and now, Doug, Ron and DK are unreasonable individuals ?
Everyone can have an opinion on a topic ... however, the speech should be based in FACT and not speculation
FACT: The guy suffered a broken bone, caused by a blunt instrument ... along with a somewhat nasty looking head wound
FACT: Someone blocked their progress with another vehicle .. in order to beat the crap out of some in the vehicle towing a Hobbie Cat
FACT: Others saw this individual in the medical aid station and took photographs
What FACTS are you operating from .. Pete
You allege that posts have been taken down ... prove it
You allege that this event was something else than what was posted by the individuals and/or reported by third party ... prove it
What FACTS to you have to substantiate that the event DID NOT occur as relayed by others to this board and/or Face Book ... prove it
And again ... What is your posting name on Face Book ???
And Pescador .... This is the approach used by this individual when posting on Baja Nomads ... to stir the pot by making ridiculous statements based
on nothing more than his own thinking(?) on things ... Which we all can see daily if one wishes to endure the mental abuse
No doubt why these other folks ... got off the internet
Why subject one's self to abuse by an anonymous person .. pretty simple concept
Me I don't care ... too old to care about someone of this caliber ... making outlandish statements based on some warped view of life from the safety
of anonymity 
And I don't need to speak for Doug ... He already did ... speak that is
| Quote: Originally posted by BajaNomad | | Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 |
Hmmmm,... Could be bs yarns by a hate club member playing with his false IDs,... The story is consistent with certain whack jobs that post on a board
that shall not be named... |
These seem to be - from my standpoint - legit posts by legit users.
fyi |
[Edited on 2-13-2016 by wessongroup]
[Edited on 2-13-2016 by BajaNomad]
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad as hell
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| Quote: Originally posted by wessongroup |
Or are you stating that these injuries were affected by the "members" of the Caravan ? ... Yeah, now that makes a lot of sense
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Wesson, I'm not going to answer any of your dumb questions, when you don't even have a basic understanding of what was alleged to happen outside of
that military check point.
Wesson you then jump to conclusions and try to put words in my mouth.
Maybe it will help you if you try to concentrate on one alleged fact at a time, and actually re-read the alleged reports, and read exactly what I
said, instead of jumping to conclusion about what I said.
According to one of the stories, there was a caravan of two vehicles, the alleged victim's family, car 1, and another car in the caravan, car 2. We
presume they were all friends, family members, or they knew each other, but the reports never actually said, who was in car 2.
The first story we heard which was a second hand report, that said, that Mexican military allowed car 1, with the family through the check point,
but the second car in the caravan, car 2, was stopped and searched for nearly 20 minutes.
The implication here is the military men at the check point deliberately held up car 2, so the trio of supposedly Mexican men with military uniforms
could stop and assault the family, without interference from car 2.
So do try to pay attention Wesson, and as you could see, your question that I quoted makes no sense, because you claim, I said, " the injuries were
affected by the "members" of the Caravan," when I never said such a thing.
Here is exactly what Kevind said about the military check point outside of San Ignacio:
Kevind wrote:I forgot to mention that the other vehicle in the convoy was held back and searched for nearly 20 minutes possibly creating the
time gap necessary for the men in the truck to do what they did. Also, the mother and daughter threw the fathers wallet and their purses to the
assailants who showed no interest in them. This was not a robbery.
[Edited on 2-13-2016 by JoeJustJoe]
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azucena
Nomad
Posts: 192
Registered: 8-25-2012
Member Is Offline
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Since this thread no longer has any relevant information being exchanged and has disintegrated into several members in personal attack mode, might I
suggest to all of you gentlemen that you begin a new thread, where you can go at each other to your hearts content, and leave this thread for updates
about how the family is doing and any progress on the investigation.
Or, Maybe, just maybe, BEFORE you decide to post another vitriolic bomb, ask yourself what good it will serve.... No one is going to "win" here....
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BajaNomad
Super Administrator
Posts: 4969
Registered: 8-1-2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: INTP-A
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| Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe |
Doc Holiday's membership has been deleted... A simple membership search at "Talk Baja" would have cleared this up for you...
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The above info is inaccurate, and postings from the user alluded to regarding the incident and this thread on TB are still there.
It's been said: "How you do anything is how you do everything."
fwiw
[Edited on 2-13-2016 by BajaNomad]
When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people.
– Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel
We know we must go back if we live, and we don`t know why.
– John Steinbeck, Log from the Sea of Cortez
Affordable Domain Name Registration/Management & cPanel Web Hosting:
https://www.regionalinternet.com |
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BornFisher
Super Nomad
Posts: 2103
Registered: 1-11-2005
Location: K-38 Santa Martha/Encinitas
Member Is Offline
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[/rquote]
It's been said: "How you do anything is how you do everything."
fwiw
[Edited on 2-13-2016 by BajaNomad][/rquote]
Mom always said "an empty wagon makes the most noise".
"When you catch a fish, you open the door of happiness."
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad as hell
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| Quote: Originally posted by BajaNomad | | Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe |
Doc Holiday's membership has been deleted... A simple membership search at "Talk Baja" would have cleared this up for you...
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The above info is inaccurate, and postings from the user alluded to regarding the incident and this thread on TB are still there.
It's been said: "How you do anything is how you do everything."
fwiw
[Edited on 2-13-2016 by BajaNomad] |
Thank you.
I have asked a few times for follow up confirmation that I noticed that the alleged victim, the mother's posts were deleted from Talk Baja, along with
with Ron's' exchange with her.
I have noticed that Doc Hollywood's thread about fighting back, Mad Max style, on "Talk Baja" have been pulled, and I said, Doc Hollywood's and the
mother are no longer members of "Talk Baja."
I made one simple, mistake, when I put in Doc Hollywood's name, I put Doc Holiday's name instead of the search membership field.
It's also against the Facebook rules to use fake names, and it appears Doc Hollywood's Facebook page is bogus.
My other points are still valid, and again I ask for confirmation, because with so many posts at "Talk Baja" it could be missed, but I'm almost
certain that thread has been pulled, and I'm almost certain the mother is no longer posting there, yet other people are claiming they are talking to
a family member(s)
[Edited on 2-13-2016 by JoeJustJoe]
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Howard
Super Nomad
Posts: 2346
Registered: 11-13-2007
Location: Loreto/Manhattan Beach/Kona
Member Is Offline
Mood: I'd rather regret the things I've done than regret the things I haven't done.
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This is worse than 2 children in a sandbox.
Please take your bickering elsewhere. You want to fight and kill each other, that would probably help the gene pool anyway but PLEASE take it
somewhere else.
Just sit back and question why we have to listen to your problems with each other.
We don't stop playing because we grow old;
we grow old because we stop playing
George Bernard Shaw
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad as hell
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Here is a little bit of information I received from the U. S. consulate, when I sent them an email, asking basic information about this alleged case,
and I related to them a few concerns of mine, that may have crossed the desk of the U.S consulate over the years.
Since there is no note about their email being privileged and confidential. I'm comfortable, sharing at least partially the main gist of their email
to me.
The other main thing they told me, was that due to Privacy Act limitations, they can't publicly or privately discuss any inquiries of any possible
case. I'm sure this extends to everyone, even those claiming special friendship with Consulate personal.
In the future, if I ever find myself a victim of a serious crime in Baja, after I received medical attention, I'm going to call the U.S Consulate,
because I will probably need help to navigate all the red tape, especially if I want to do the equivalent of "press charges" in Mexico. I would also
want a local police report, because the U.S. Consulate wants proof the incident took place, although they may be able to help you in that regard.
_____________________________________
From the U.S Consulate's email to me:
"The Consulate’s primary responsibilities are the safety and security of U.S. citizens in Baja California; therefore, we treat all such
reports as valid until they are demonstrated to be otherwise. With all reports of violent attacks targeting U.S. citizens, once we have spoken to the
alleged victim, we regularly follow-up with local law enforcement contacts to verify the facts of the report and to inquire about investigative
progress. In addition, we provide guidance to the victims on filing a criminal complaint, and in seeking out victims assistance programs."
[Edited on 2-13-2016 by JoeJustJoe]
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ELINVESTIG8R
Select Nomad
Posts: 15882
Registered: 11-20-2007
Location: Southern California
Member Is Offline
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Me ... I've always thought this WOULD happen to ME and/or my family ... by someone just like in these example's and what some have experienced while
in Baja
Didn't drive in "fear" but, always knew there are some real crazies out there ... so expect it ...
If ya don't want to watch don't ...
But, IF you do .,.... Just what would you do differently ...
IF it happened to YOU ?
Drive Defensively ...
and, oh, an investigation is messed up in Baja ... Well how about that ... The center of Criminal Investigation Training of Mexico ..
[Edited on 2-14-2016 by wessongroup]
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Higo
Newbie
Posts: 9
Registered: 7-22-2015
Member Is Offline
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Forgive me if this has been asked. But why would somebody fake this? Please don't give a pat answer like "lots of people hate Mexico". Because it's an
awful lot of trouble, the fake Facebook pages, getting multiple people to corroborate with their own reputations, Facebook profiles, etc. I mean, who
goes to all this trouble? If you want to "de-fame" Mexico, you can easily grab headlines of TRUE stories! I hate admitting that because I'm the type
who will always defend Mexico and its people. Why bother with a fairly complex series of events and multiple people. Not to mention pictures of the
road, injuries, etc.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17346
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: Originally posted by Higo | | Forgive me if this has been asked. But why would somebody fake this? Please don't give a pat answer like "lots of people hate Mexico". Because it's an
awful lot of trouble, the fake Facebook pages, getting multiple people to corroborate with their own reputations, Facebook profiles, etc. I mean, who
goes to all this trouble? |
Well, a few people like chuck Levitin. He goes by fulano, Jesus Juarez Torres, and a bunch of other fake names. He builds fake online personas and
websites for hating on Mexico, and trashing gringo expats and gringo tourists. Weird,eh?
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
Member Is Offline
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IN talking to the victims, they actually got scared of the weird stuff being posted and decided it was simply too intimidating and threatening to
continue with the posts. All I wanted to do was to make sure that they were insulated against the juvenile thrashing they were getting, so I verified
that there was an investigation, the event did,in fact, occur, and those people who were so inclined would have the information and take the
appropriate caution when transiting the area. So those who choose not to believe the issue are certainly entitled to their beliefs and imagine what
an irony it would be if one of those people actually had a similar incident.
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