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SlyOnce
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Posts: 262
Registered: 12-26-2013
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self defense and MX justice?
There have recently been some "home invasion" style robberies at our lovely apartment in Playas de TJ. A guy armed with a knife has broken the door
at 5 AM of a terrified neighbor and stole her phone and laptop.
I, and most of the men in the apartment are long gone to work by 5 AM. My wife leaves for her job on the MX side about 5:30.
The very next day outside our very apartment was a confrontation with 2 young people looking like addicts who first claimed to live there (they did
not) and changed the story and claimed to be "lost and looking for directions back to the road". The apartment security guy made them leave.
All the neighbors have been terrified and demanded the management to do something, and things have been done (new fence and new night security guard
with dog).
However we don't have windows that open and so most people sleep with the door ajar and a fan or something blowing. I started sleeping with a big
hammer next to my bed. My wife wants the door closed. I did add a security chain and I want the door open because its so hot.
My MX wife says I shouldn't use the hammer, that in MX even if someone breaks the door down and comes into your house with weapons, if you defend
yourself you will be arrested and you can be liable to pay the robber and his family for life for any damages you do to him.
I said the use of the hammer is only to make the person run away, not to kill.
Who's right? If I defend myself am I going to face arrest and be forced to pay the robber?
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SFandH
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I'd install an alarm system of some type that activates a LOUD alarm if the door is opened enough to pass through.
A golf club would be better than a hammer, more reach. And perhaps some sort of pepper spray.
I doubt your wife is right about the self defense issue. Ask a Mex lawyer.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/534958289989059/
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willardguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6451
Registered: 9-19-2009
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would they allow you to install a security screen door?
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sancho
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Registered: 10-6-2004
Location: OC So Cal
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Quote: Originally posted by SlyOnce  |
My MX wife says I shouldn't use the hammer, that in MX even if someone breaks the door down and comes into your house with weapons, if you defend
yourself you will be arrested and you can be liable to pay the robber and his family for life for any damages you do to him.
Who's right? If I defend myself am I going to face arrest and be forced to pay the robber? |
I think it would depend on where one is located, some small
rural village, cops MAY pat you on the back and say nice job,
MAYBE others, like TJ cops, would not be so accommodating.
Did read of some Mex National in TJ, confronting a purse
snatch incident, robber was injured, Good Samaritian got
charged with injuring the assailant, imagine it would be
worse for a Gringo. Talk of guns, hammers, baseball bats,
etc., has to be thought thru. Although the end game is to
protect yourself if threatened. Have read of home robberies,
on another site, a person in another Mex town, not far from
the border, was broken into
3 times in 3 weeks in June, talk of meth addicts is probably
a good call
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6929
Registered: 8-5-2011
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that's a good idea!
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chuckie
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6082
Registered: 2-20-2012
Location: Kansas Prairies
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Mood: Weary
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I smacked a Mexican national with a big rock, as he was stealing tools from my shop. I was told by the polices that if I had injured him, I would be
in big trouble...
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
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Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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Please put all trash in the dumpster
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3456
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
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| Quote: Originally posted by SlyOnce |
My MX wife says I shouldn't use the hammer, that in MX even if someone breaks the door down and comes into your house with weapons, if you defend
yourself you will be arrested and you can be liable to pay the robber and his family for life for any damages you do to him.
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Local laws couldn't be any more c0ckeyed. This takes some creative thinking -- out of the box. It's difficult to believe a gringo would not
act in self-defense because of laws against his own best interests.
Simply put, no body, no crime.
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
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Mood: Mad as hell
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| Quote: Originally posted by SlyOnce |
However we don't have windows that open and so most people sleep with the door ajar and a fan or something blowing. I started sleeping with a big
hammer next to my bed. My wife wants the door closed. I did add a security chain and I want the door open because its so hot.
My MX wife says I shouldn't use the hammer, that in MX even if someone breaks the door down and comes into your house with weapons, if you defend
yourself you will be arrested and you can be liable to pay the robber and his family for life for any damages you do to him.
I said the use of the hammer is only to make the person run away, not to kill.
Who's right? If I defend myself am I going to face arrest and be forced to pay the robber? |
Sounds to me is you need a new place to live.
Who sleeps with their front door open even in the states?
Regarding self defense with a hammer. I think that would depend on your age, height, weight, and shape you're in.
If you're over 65 years old and frail, I would say skip using the hammer, and if the home invasion robbers come inside, give them anything they want,
because you run the risk of them using the hammer on you.
If it were me, and I lived at your place, and it was really that bad. I would get a small-caliber gun, that's allowed under the Mexican constitution,
although I understand there is a lot of red tape. ( you can only have a gun inside your home) Of course, having a gun, you are more likely never to
use it in actual self-defense, and you run the risk of a gun accident in your home or apartment, and there is always the possibility, the bad guys
will take the gun away from you and use it on you.
I wouldn't worry too much about what the wife says, when she says if someone breaks in your home, breaks down the door, and then you try to defend
yourself. According the the wife, it's you that's going to be arrested.
If it's truly a life and death situation, you really shouldn't worry about what happens after, because it's not going to matter if you're dead.
I don't know where you wife gets her information from, but she is wrong or isn't telling the whole story.
You may in fact get arrested in Mexico, killing somebody inside your house, but that doesn't mean you'll be convicted with a legitimate self defense
claim.
In Mexico, you have a fundamental right to security and to use legitimate self defense claims. it's also in the United Nations charter, and
practiced by most countries in the world.
Now you very well may be arrested in Mexico for self-defense claims, but you might also be arrested in the USA for self-defense claims after killing a
suspected robber in your home.
It's only after an investigation by the police, or after the prosecutors look at the case in the US, the charges are dropped after they determine
it's a clear case of self-defense. I'm sure, it's very similar in Mexico.
Because I'm distrustful of cops, if I ever shot a intruder inside my house, I would never talk to the cops. The first call would be to my attorney,
who would tell me not to talk to the cops.
[Edited on 8-23-2016 by JoeJustJoe]
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Howard
Super Nomad
Posts: 2347
Registered: 11-13-2007
Location: Loreto/Manhattan Beach/Kona
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Mood: I'd rather regret the things I've done than regret the things I haven't done.
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A few years ago my place was broken into in Loreto. I was up in the USA when all this happened and immediately went down to look at the damage. I
notified the police and a detective came out and they took fingerprints. I knew that nothing was going to become of this but I guess I felt better
about it.
The well dressed detective who was packing a revolver and I became friendly and he point blank asked and told me the following.
1: "Why don't you get a gun?" I told him I thought that it was illegal for me to have a gun and where would I get one? He said to sneak it down on
my next trip.
2: He was most insistent that if I shoot the person and they are outside that I should drag him back in my house or make sure I shoot him in my
house.
Well, I wanted no part of the gun scenario for fear of winding up in serious to very serious trouble and opted for a hi powered pellet gun which
looks just like a gun and would scare and just hurt any intruder. They even sell the pellets and CO2 cartridges at the local sporting good shop in
Loreto.
Anyway, as stated in previous replies to this thread, it just depends on where you are but why take a chance of you being the one in real trouble?
We don't stop playing because we grow old;
we grow old because we stop playing
George Bernard Shaw
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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Just make sure you beat him to death in your home. Worry about the carpet later.
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17358
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: Originally posted by SlyOnce | There have recently been some "home invasion" style robberies at our lovely apartment in Playas de TJ. A guy armed with a knife has broken the door
at 5 AM of a terrified neighbor and stole her phone and laptop.
I, and most of the men in the apartment are long gone to work by 5 AM. My wife leaves for her job on the MX side about 5:30.
The very next day outside our very apartment was a confrontation with 2 young people looking like addicts who first claimed to live there (they did
not) and changed the story and claimed to be "lost and looking for directions back to the road". The apartment security guy made them leave.
All the neighbors have been terrified and demanded the management to do something, and things have been done (new fence and new night security guard
with dog).
However we don't have windows that open and so most people sleep with the door ajar and a fan or something blowing. I started sleeping with a big
hammer next to my bed. My wife wants the door closed. I did add a security chain and I want the door open because its so hot.
My MX wife says I shouldn't use the hammer, that in MX even if someone breaks the he rest of email is just more detail and how they will shut us down
in this riding area. I will post more later. I did in fact go up there (but not to problems at the rancho) Looking for new route on North west side.
On that side no route as old Baja route,any and all roads trails. Fenced and locked gates,we spent all day up there. Problem rancho also owns all land
up to new forestdoor down and comes into your house with weapons, if you defend yourself you will be arrested and you can be liable to pay the robber
and his family for life for any damages you do to him.
I said the use of the hammer is only to make the person run away, not to kill.
Who's right? If I defend myself am I going to face arrest and be forced to pay the robber? |
I suggest not attacking unless attacked. Attacking your robber is unlikely to end well, close combat is risky for all involved. . I suggest using
pepper spray to momemtarily incapacitate, then fleeing.
Also, sounds like you should move somewhere else. Your windows dont open? Odd.
[Edited on 8-23-2016 by mtgoat666]
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 |
I suggest not attacking unless attacked. Attacking your robber is unlikely to end well, close combat is risky for all involved.
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Right on. Make him some coffee and pancakes just to let him know how you understand his need to beat you to death and take everything in sight.
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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bajabuddha
Banned
Posts: 4024
Registered: 4-12-2013
Location: Baja New Mexico
Member Is Offline
Mood: Always cranky unless medicated
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How about :
Just MOVE to a safer apartment?
I don't have a BUCKET LIST, but I do have a F***- IT LIST a mile long!
86 - 45*
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BajaGlenn
Nomad
Posts: 115
Registered: 6-11-2015
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Mood: Missing Baja
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I was told years ago the same as Howard in Loreto--and they were just stealing my geo tracker-- if i had i would have launched the boat and buried
them at sea--see advertisement for needing new anchor
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
Member Is Offline
Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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Never, repeat never, bring a pellet gun to a gunfight 
| Quote: Originally posted by Howard | A few years ago my place was broken into in Loreto. I was up in the USA when all this happened and immediately went down to look at the damage. I
notified the police and a detective came out and they took fingerprints. I knew that nothing was going to become of this but I guess I felt better
about it.
The well dressed detective who was packing a revolver and I became friendly and he point blank asked and told me the following.
1: "Why don't you get a gun?" I told him I thought that it was illegal for me to have a gun and where would I get one? He said to sneak it down on
my next trip.
2: He was most insistent that if I shoot the person and they are outside that I should drag him back in my house or make sure I shoot him in my
house.
Well, I wanted no part of the gun scenario for fear of winding up in serious to very serious trouble and opted for a hi powered pellet gun which
looks just like a gun and would scare and just hurt any intruder. They even sell the pellets and CO2 cartridges at the local sporting good shop in
Loreto.
Anyway, as stated in previous replies to this thread, it just depends on where you are but why take a chance of you being the one in real trouble?
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bajabuddha
Banned
Posts: 4024
Registered: 4-12-2013
Location: Baja New Mexico
Member Is Offline
Mood: Always cranky unless medicated
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A Lot of talk of guns and pellet guns; a high-powered .177 pellet can kill with a well-placed shot. Also, do you REALLY want to kill a human being?
Most braggadocios have never been in the real position. Granted, most wish they could because of bullying or past grievances; but it's a cost not
worth carrying the rest of your life. Defense? Hell yes. Protection? Hell yes. Relocation? Hell, yes.
A single night in a Mexicano jail? Hell, NO. More than one night? Easy answer.
I don't have a BUCKET LIST, but I do have a F***- IT LIST a mile long!
86 - 45*
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6929
Registered: 8-5-2011
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Of course TJ is a tough town. Playas de Tijuana where Slyonce lives is one of the better neighborhoods. A 5 AM home invasion robbery with a knife is
unusual even for TJ. I read online (at least try to read) the local newspaper, La Frontera. Sounds like a desperate addict fighting off withdrawal. A
"safe" place in TJ might be hard to find. The private, walled in, gated, guarded communities where only residents can gain access are probably the
safest. They're scattered around town, nice houses, rents start at around $1000 per month.
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
Member Is Offline
Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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Master the Bo
http://www.themartialartsstore.com/product/TC-26-60.html?fe_...
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chuckie
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6082
Registered: 2-20-2012
Location: Kansas Prairies
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Mood: Weary
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What a joke....
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