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unbob
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Posts: 407
Registered: 8-7-2006
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What Are Your Rights if Border Agents Want to Search Your Phone?
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/14/business/border-enforceme...
"I'm too young to be this old!"
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
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Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/inspection...
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Udo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6321
Registered: 4-26-2008
Location: Black Hills, SD/Ensenada/San Felipe
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Mood: TEQUILA!
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Bajaguy has the correct link. It is not CBP's decision, it is Homeland Security's directive.
Udo
Youth is wasted on the young!
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17299
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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I would never let the gestapo search my phone. My phone will "wipe" memory upon 3 incorrect PW attempts. Probably easy to wipe phone to prevent
gestapo goons prying into my life.
Sad! that the USA law enforcement agencies have turned into an out of control police state. Let's hope that Trump/Putin/Bannon does not coopt usa law
enforcement to implement their warped totalitarian views.
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DaliDali
Super Nomad
Posts: 1132
Registered: 4-21-2010
Location: BCS
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Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  | I would never let the gestapo search my phone. My phone will "wipe" memory upon 3 incorrect PW attempts. Probably easy to wipe phone to prevent
gestapo goons prying into my life.
Sad! that the USA law enforcement agencies have turned into an out of control police state. Let's hope that Trump/Putin/Bannon does not coopt usa law
enforcement to implement their warped totalitarian views. |
Trump/Putin/Bannon did not implement this.
This authority has been on the books for a long time.
Opps....
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17299
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali | | Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | I would never let the gestapo search my phone. My phone will "wipe" memory upon 3 incorrect PW attempts. Probably easy to wipe phone to prevent
gestapo goons prying into my life.
Sad! that the USA law enforcement agencies have turned into an out of control police state. Let's hope that Trump/Putin/Bannon does not coopt usa law
enforcement to implement their warped totalitarian views. |
Trump/Putin/Bannon did not implement this.
This authority has been on the books for a long time.
Opps.... |
You don't read so well...
I agree. George bush started this.
I just said I hope that trump/putin/Bannon does not coopt it.
Capiche?
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DaliDali
Super Nomad
Posts: 1132
Registered: 4-21-2010
Location: BCS
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali | | Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | I would never let the gestapo search my phone. My phone will "wipe" memory upon 3 incorrect PW attempts. Probably easy to wipe phone to prevent
gestapo goons prying into my life.
Sad! that the USA law enforcement agencies have turned into an out of control police state. Let's hope that Trump/Putin/Bannon does not coopt usa law
enforcement to implement their warped totalitarian views. |
Trump/Putin/Bannon did not implement this.
This authority has been on the books for a long time.
Opps.... |
You don't read so well...
I agree. George bush started this.
I just said I hope that trump/putin/Bannon does not coopt it.
Capiche? |
I read just fine......YOU insinuate it's all Trumps fault.
One can just hope the CPB asks you to hand over your phone and YOU spend 30 days in the slammer for refusing a LAWFUL order where courts have deemed
the entry into your phone at the border or any POE (port of entry for stupids like you) where people enter from a foreign country are LAWFUL.
If your searching for blame on all this.....look no farther than your friendly Islamic terrorist.
[Edited on 2-19-2017 by DaliDali]
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4x4abc
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4163
Registered: 4-24-2009
Location: La Paz, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: happy - always
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there is a lot of stuff in another book of laws, the bible.
We don't follow many of the laws in there any longer.
It's not what's in the books what defines us
it's what we chose to execute
Harald Pietschmann
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64480
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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I might add if one does not like the laws being followed for entering the U.S., either change the laws or don't leave the country! I find it
refreshing that the laws we have had for years are finally being enforced.
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3455
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | I would never let the gestapo search my phone. My phone will "wipe" memory upon 3 incorrect PW attempts. Probably easy to wipe phone to prevent
gestapo goons prying into my life.
Sad! that the USA law enforcement agencies have turned into an out of control police state. Let's hope that Trump/Putin/Bannon does not coopt usa law
enforcement to implement their warped totalitarian views. |
Just a bit behind the curve on this.
At the US border at MX and Canada, you have no rights. Canadian ICE is worse than the US.
Your phone will be confiscated if you refuse a password, and they'll figure it out, you might not get it back. Same with your laptop. IT's been
like this for years.
Nothing to hide, no sweat. Not a big deal in the big picture.
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3455
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc | there is a lot of stuff in another book of laws, the bible.
We don't follow many of the laws in there any longer.
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Well this is just not true in the US. Most of christianity follows the bible, thinks it the word of god and his law. MX catholics are down
right scary. Funny thing belief systems.
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4410
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by Lee | | Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | I would never let the gestapo search my phone. My phone will "wipe" memory upon 3 incorrect PW attempts. Probably easy to wipe phone to prevent
gestapo goons prying into my life.
Sad! that the USA law enforcement agencies have turned into an out of control police state. Let's hope that Trump/Putin/Bannon does not coopt usa law
enforcement to implement their warped totalitarian views. |
Just a bit behind the curve on this.
At the US border at MX and Canada, you have no rights. Canadian ICE is worse than the US.
Your phone will be confiscated if you refuse a password, and they'll figure it out, you might not get it back. Same with your laptop. IT's been
like this for years.
Nothing to hide, no sweat. Not a big deal in the big picture. |
This is a misinterpretation:
You can refuse to allow search and seizure of your personal items, they can confiscate them and then you can demand they be returned. They are
required to show proof of a need to search or seize, however, it may take a while for the case to be heard. Nowadays there is nothing in the phone
that isn't in your personal cloud that you would lose by them seizing the phone and eventually the device will be returned and you can also sue if
after returning the device you can show they had no cause.
So, now people are refusing to give up their password and walking, away the devices are returned and eventually this trend will go away.
LE or homeland security can always ask and threaten and lie to get you to give up your privacy but that doesn't make it right or require you to do it.
The best policy with any LE is to be polite but don't give up any passwords and just wait it out. They will soon get the hint they are wasting time
and resources bothering nice people to make an impression they are doing something while it has no benefit to hassle nice people while there are many
criminals passing by in process of criminal activity who could be targeted but often are not since broad corruption exists to allow contraband to
cross the border.
[Edited on 2-19-2017 by gnukid]
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Udo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6321
Registered: 4-26-2008
Location: Black Hills, SD/Ensenada/San Felipe
Member Is Offline
Mood: TEQUILA!
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | I might add if one does not like the laws being followed for entering the U.S., either change the laws or don't leave the country! I find it
refreshing that the laws we have had for years are finally being enforced. |
Udo
Youth is wasted on the young!
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3455
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by gnukid | | Quote: Originally posted by Lee | | Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | I would never let the gestapo search my phone. My phone will "wipe" memory upon 3 incorrect PW attempts. Probably easy to wipe phone to prevent
gestapo goons prying into my life.
Sad! that the USA law enforcement agencies have turned into an out of control police state. Let's hope that Trump/Putin/Bannon does not coopt usa law
enforcement to implement their warped totalitarian views. |
Just a bit behind the curve on this.
At the US border at MX and Canada, you have no rights. Canadian ICE is worse than the US.
Your phone will be confiscated if you refuse a password, and they'll figure it out, you might not get it back. Same with your laptop. IT's been
like this for years.
Nothing to hide, no sweat. Not a big deal in the big picture. |
This is a misinterpretation:
You can refuse to allow search and seizure of your personal items, they can confiscate them and then you can demand they be returned. They are
required to show proof of a need to search or seize, however, it may take a while for the case to be heard. Nowadays there is nothing in the phone
that isn't in your personal cloud that you would lose by them seizing the phone and eventually the device will be returned and you can also sue if
after returning the device you can show they had no cause.
So, now people are refusing to give up their password and walking, away the devices are returned and eventually this trend will go away.
LE or homeland security can always ask and threaten and lie to get you to give up your privacy but that doesn't make it right or require you to do it.
The best policy with any LE is to be polite but don't give up any passwords and just wait it out. They will soon get the hint they are wasting time
and resources bothering nice people to make an impression they are doing something while it has no benefit to hassle nice people while there are many
criminals passing by in process of criminal activity who could be targeted but often are not since broad corruption exists to allow contraband to
cross the border.
[Edited on 2-19-2017 by gnukid] |
Agree with everything above -- just not the way I would go about doing this. When I'm crossing, I'm on a schedule. Hanging around for a few
hours or a day is not something I'll do. Seizure or detaining my device isn't something I want either.
Their call as to whether you can cross or not as well.
Anyone up for tilting at windmills have at it. Let us know how long it takes to get back your iPhone.
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4410
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by Lee | | Quote: Originally posted by gnukid | | Quote: Originally posted by Lee | | Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | I would never let the gestapo search my phone. My phone will "wipe" memory upon 3 incorrect PW attempts. Probably easy to wipe phone to prevent
gestapo goons prying into my life.
Sad! that the USA law enforcement agencies have turned into an out of control police state. Let's hope that Trump/Putin/Bannon does not coopt usa law
enforcement to implement their warped totalitarian views.[/rquote
Just a bit behind the curve on this.
At the US border at MX and Canada, you have no rights. Canadian ICE is worse than the US.
Your phone will be confiscated if you refuse a password, and they'll figure it out, you might not get it back. Same with your laptop. IT's been
like this for years.
Nothing to hide, no sweat. Not a big deal in the big picture. |
This is a misinterpretation:
You can refuse to allow search and seizure of your personal items, they can confiscate them and then you can demand they be returned. They are
required to show proof of a need to search or seize, however, it may take a while for the case to be heard. Nowadays there is nothing in the phone
that isn't in your personal cloud that you would lose by them seizing the phone and eventually the device will be returned and you can also sue if
after returning the device you can show they had no cause.
So, now people are refusing to give up their password and walking, away the devices are returned and eventually this trend will go away.
LE or homeland security can always ask and threaten and lie to get you to give up your privacy but that doesn't make it right or require you to do it.
The best policy with any LE is to be polite but don't give up any passwords and just wait it out. They will soon get the hint they are wasting time
and resources bothering nice people to make an impression they are doing something while it has no benefit to hassle nice people while there are many
criminals passing by in process of criminal activity who could be targeted but often are not since broad corruption exists to allow contraband to
cross the border.
[Edited on 2-19-2017 by gnukid] |
Agree with everything above -- just not the way I would go about doing this. When I'm crossing, I'm on a schedule. Hanging around for a few
hours or a day is not something I'll do. Seizure or detaining my device isn't something I want either.
Their call as to whether you can cross or not as well.
Anyone up for tilting at windmills have at it. Let us know how long it takes to get back your iPhone.
|
Obviously some Nomads (who should know better about the 4th and 5th amendment to the USA constitution) dismiss a major point: No one is a default
suspect or required to give up the basic right to freedom of search and seizure without reasonable suspicion or the right to liberty - not in USA or
Mexico. So no one is required to nor should one give up their phone or computer password regardless of the short term convenience.
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BajaNomad
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Thread Moved
2-19-2017 at 09:26 PM |
DaliDali
Super Nomad
Posts: 1132
Registered: 4-21-2010
Location: BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by gnukid | | Quote: Originally posted by Lee | | Quote: Originally posted by gnukid | | Quote: Originally posted by Lee | | Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | I would never let the gestapo search my phone. My phone will "wipe" memory upon 3 incorrect PW attempts. Probably easy to wipe phone to prevent
gestapo goons prying into my life.
Sad! that the USA law enforcement agencies have turned into an out of control police state. Let's hope that Trump/Putin/Bannon does not coopt usa law
enforcement to implement their warped totalitarian views.[/rquote
Just a bit behind the curve on this.
At the US border at MX and Canada, you have no rights. Canadian ICE is worse than the US.
Your phone will be confiscated if you refuse a password, and they'll figure it out, you might not get it back. Same with your laptop. IT's been
like this for years.
Nothing to hide, no sweat. Not a big deal in the big picture. |
This is a misinterpretation:
You can refuse to allow search and seizure of your personal items, they can confiscate them and then you can demand they be returned. They are
required to show proof of a need to search or seize, however, it may take a while for the case to be heard. Nowadays there is nothing in the phone
that isn't in your personal cloud that you would lose by them seizing the phone and eventually the device will be returned and you can also sue if
after returning the device you can show they had no cause.
So, now people are refusing to give up their password and walking, away the devices are returned and eventually this trend will go away.
LE or homeland security can always ask and threaten and lie to get you to give up your privacy but that doesn't make it right or require you to do it.
The best policy with any LE is to be polite but don't give up any passwords and just wait it out. They will soon get the hint they are wasting time
and resources bothering nice people to make an impression they are doing something while it has no benefit to hassle nice people while there are many
criminals passing by in process of criminal activity who could be targeted but often are not since broad corruption exists to allow contraband to
cross the border.
[Edited on 2-19-2017 by gnukid] |
Agree with everything above -- just not the way I would go about doing this. When I'm crossing, I'm on a schedule. Hanging around for a few
hours or a day is not something I'll do. Seizure or detaining my device isn't something I want either.
Their call as to whether you can cross or not as well.
Anyone up for tilting at windmills have at it. Let us know how long it takes to get back your iPhone.
|
Obviously some Nomads (who should know better about the 4th and 5th amendment to the USA constitution) dismiss a major point: No one is a default
suspect or required to give up the basic right to freedom of search and seizure without reasonable suspicion or the right to liberty - not in USA or
Mexico. So no one is required to nor should one give up their phone or computer password regardless of the short term convenience.
|
How would you square that up with the Supremes giving border agents the authority to search anything and everything at the border, including phones
and laptops?
The exact legal citation for our search authority can be found in Title 19 of the United States Code, Sections 482, 1467, 1496, 1581 and 1582. All
persons, baggage, and other merchandise arriving in or leaving the United States are subject to inspection and search by CBP officers. Various laws
(including 8 United States Code (U.S.C.) 1357, 19 U.S.C. 482, 1581, 1582) enforced by CBP authorize such searches.
The Supreme Court decisions have upheld the doctrine that CBP's search authority is unique and does not violate the fourth amendment's protection
against unreasonable searches and seizures. However, with this authority, CBP expects all of its officers to conduct their duties in a professional
manner, and treat each traveler respectfully.
https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/176/~/cbp-searc...
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17299
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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If people roll over and acquiesce the tyrants will only be emboldened and they will become ever more brutal.
We must resist brutal thugs!
Speak up! Silence just provides validation of thuggery!
Stand up for your rights! Don't give up the fight! 
| Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali | | Quote: Originally posted by gnukid | | Quote: Originally posted by Lee | | Quote: Originally posted by gnukid | | Quote: Originally posted by Lee | | Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | I would never let the gestapo search my phone. My phone will "wipe" memory upon 3 incorrect PW attempts. Probably easy to wipe phone to prevent
gestapo goons prying into my life.
Sad! that the USA law enforcement agencies have turned into an out of control police state. Let's hope that Trump/Putin/Bannon does not coopt usa law
enforcement to implement their warped totalitarian views.[/rquote
Just a bit behind the curve on this.
At the US border at MX and Canada, you have no rights. Canadian ICE is worse than the US.
Your phone will be confiscated if you refuse a password, and they'll figure it out, you might not get it back. Same with your laptop. IT's been
like this for years.
Nothing to hide, no sweat. Not a big deal in the big picture. |
This is a misinterpretation:
You can refuse to allow search and seizure of your personal items, they can confiscate them and then you can demand they be returned. They are
required to show proof of a need to search or seize, however, it may take a while for the case to be heard. Nowadays there is nothing in the phone
that isn't in your personal cloud that you would lose by them seizing the phone and eventually the device will be returned and you can also sue if
after returning the device you can show they had no cause.
So, now people are refusing to give up their password and walking, away the devices are returned and eventually this trend will go away.
LE or homeland security can always ask and threaten and lie to get you to give up your privacy but that doesn't make it right or require you to do it.
The best policy with any LE is to be polite but don't give up any passwords and just wait it out. They will soon get the hint they are wasting time
and resources bothering nice people to make an impression they are doing something while it has no benefit to hassle nice people while there are many
criminals passing by in process of criminal activity who could be targeted but often are not since broad corruption exists to allow contraband to
cross the border.
[Edited on 2-19-2017 by gnukid] |
Agree with everything above -- just not the way I would go about doing this. When I'm crossing, I'm on a schedule. Hanging around for a few
hours or a day is not something I'll do. Seizure or detaining my device isn't something I want either.
Their call as to whether you can cross or not as well.
Anyone up for tilting at windmills have at it. Let us know how long it takes to get back your iPhone.
|
Obviously some Nomads (who should know better about the 4th and 5th amendment to the USA constitution) dismiss a major point: No one is a default
suspect or required to give up the basic right to freedom of search and seizure without reasonable suspicion or the right to liberty - not in USA or
Mexico. So no one is required to nor should one give up their phone or computer password regardless of the short term convenience.
|
How would you square that up with the Supremes giving border agents the authority to search anything and everything at the border, including phones
and laptops?
The exact legal citation for our search authority can be found in Title 19 of the United States Code, Sections 482, 1467, 1496, 1581 and 1582. All
persons, baggage, and other merchandise arriving in or leaving the United States are subject to inspection and search by CBP officers. Various laws
(including 8 United States Code (U.S.C.) 1357, 19 U.S.C. 482, 1581, 1582) enforced by CBP authorize such searches.
The Supreme Court decisions have upheld the doctrine that CBP's search authority is unique and does not violate the fourth amendment's protection
against unreasonable searches and seizures. However, with this authority, CBP expects all of its officers to conduct their duties in a professional
manner, and treat each traveler respectfully.
https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/176/~/cbp-searc...
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
Member Is Offline
Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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Obviously, "some Nomads who should know better" need to research the US Code and Supreme Court decisions on the subject.....probably the same Nomads
who refuse to get an FMM when crossing into Mexico
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Bubba
Senior Nomad
Posts: 957
Registered: 2-17-2009
Location: Pismo Beach, Ca.
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | I would never let the gestapo search my phone. My phone will "wipe" memory upon 3 incorrect PW attempts. Probably easy to wipe phone to prevent
gestapo goons prying into my life.
Sad! that the USA law enforcement agencies have turned into an out of control police state. Let's hope that Trump/Putin/Bannon does not coopt usa law
enforcement to implement their warped totalitarian views. |
Give it a rest.
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chuckie
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6082
Registered: 2-20-2012
Location: Kansas Prairies
Member Is Offline
Mood: Weary
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We have no rights at the Border. Homeland Security will do whatever they want and after the fact we can fill out endless paperwork and whine and
complain...Canadian Customs and immigration are worse..
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