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rts551
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Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  | | Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe |
Put the shoe of the other foot, and lets say Mexico elected an American hating President, who called Americans rapists and criminals, and vowed to
deport all the illegally aliens Americans back to the US.
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And the problem with deporting illegal Americans is what?...
Does Mexico or does Mexico not require foreign national tourists and residents to be legal, get legal or face the consequences when discovered?
Sounds EXACTLY like what the USA does and is doing....right?
[Edited on 2-24-2017 by DaliDali] |
Unfortunately I responded to the EXACTLY and consequences part.....(after responding directly to the question).....and it took a life on of its own
after that. Point was you can not compare the two policies. Mexico is much more liberal and lax in their control of the border.
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rts551
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| Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy | If "anyone with an ounce of sense knows this" why have none of the liberal thinkers on here spouting their diatribe against me and the current
administrations immigration stand, in this thread, chimed in with their commentary on the question in front of the "court"?
Could it be they have nothing to back up their diatribe with except for derogatory labels and name calling? Or maybe it IS a case of anarchy in its
truest definition. The anathema of all civilized countries. Maybe some need to return to the days of the Visigoths and Huns.
Funny how enforcing laws already on the books for years and enforced by previous administrations, elicits such a visceral reaction in some.
I just asked in my OP for some current information that I could pass along and it has gone on now for almost 4 pages. I guess its hard for some to
stay "on point".
I do thank those who have given me what I need for the other folks. |
I answered your original question Cliffy. I guess some did not like the answer.
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Bubba
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| Quote: Originally posted by lencho | | Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali |
With all the various IRS deductions and credits, it's highly likely that a low income worker is getting money back via the earned income credit and
end up getting money back that they never paid in. Backdoor welfare.
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You referring to illegals here? I'd be surprised if many of them are filing tax returns... |
They're not, they are working under the table and sending a large percentage of the untaxed money back to Mexico.
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soulpatch
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Cliffy and DaliDali
Sorry, no massive and repetitive quote box here.
I'm pretty flocking liberal.... sorry I disappointed you both with no diatribe.
I prefer dialog over rancor.
And, if you think calling me a snowflake is an insult, think again.... I'd rather be unique than a lemming.
Not that I am calling either of you lemmings, but I am sure you can understand the reference to marching lockstep.
Anyway, have fun with your reticent friends.. I am changing my advice.... please tell them to stay home.... Mexico is not for wimps.
Peace.
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JoeJustJoe
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| Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy |
I just asked in my OP for some current information that I could pass along and it has gone on now for almost 4 pages. I guess its hard for some to
stay "on point".
I do thank those who have given me what I need for the other folks. |
I erased all the liberal bashing from your post Cliffy, and will just focus on the topic of this thread, which is, "IS MEXICO SAFE" and all it's
variations. The variation here is, "are the Mexicans going to hate me, because of the election of Trump?" Oh That's right, Cliffy, it's not that you
are scared, it's your friends, who are scared.
So what did you really get out of this thread Cliffy?
Is Mexico safe, even under the conditions of a Trump Presidency? Cliffy, can you now guarantee your traveling friend's safety, because a few Nomads,
put their fingers in the air, and decided Mexico is safe even with the election of Trump? Of course in a large forum there are always a few who
perhaps decide, Mexico is a war zone, and you should stay away, if you want to live.
At best you are getting anecdotal information from them.
Did you know Cliffy, there are many members of "Baja Nomad" with a vested interest in Mexico/Baja tourism, and they have been known to overlook the
dangers of Mexico, because they want to promote tourism?
Did you also know there are Mexico/Baja "alarmists" and Mexico haters, who sound the danger alarm whenever there is any negative story in the
newspapers, travel boards, and on Mexico/Baja social media sites?
I would stick to the US state department warnings, before I woud turn to anonymous sources on travel boards with possible agendas. Then again, even US
state department, or other countries Travel alert warnings, could be political motivated, and they have been in the past.
For example, lets say Mexico decided to ban US corn because of the US immigration polices, I could easily see Trump, ordering the US State Department
personnel to issue travel warnings to the whole country of Mexico, in order to retaliate against Mexico and Mexican tourism.
I personally believe Mexico is always safe, and millions of Americans visit Mexico ever year, and have the time of their life. This is not going to
change just because the US elected a clown as President.
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DaliDali
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| Quote: Originally posted by soulpatch | Sorry, no massive and repetitive quote box here.
I'm pretty flocking liberal.... sorry I disappointed you both with no diatribe.
I prefer dialog over rancor.
And, if you think calling me a snowflake is an insult, think again.... I'd rather be unique than a lemming.
Not that I am calling either of you lemmings, but I am sure you can understand the reference to marching lockstep.
Anyway, have fun with your reticent friends.. I am changing my advice.... please tell them to stay home.... Mexico is not for wimps.
Peace.
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I apologize to you if you had ideas I was refering to you and you only as a snowflake....
Sorta kinda like your tepid reference to anyone who is a conservative, a lemming...
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soulpatch
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Jajaja, no sweat... I am not above poking a bit.
You don't strike as the thin-skinned type.
No, I just find it amusing when these labels that are meant to demean do no such thing.
You can pretty much call me anything in the book and it won't hurt my feeling.
Christ Almighty, what happened to this thread? And when did the word poosies get changed to wimps?
No hard feeling(s).
It's a beautiful evening on Bahia de Banderas.
I have ribs to BBQ now and a few cold ones to drink.
| Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali | | Quote: Originally posted by soulpatch | Sorry, no massive and repetitive quote box here.
I'm pretty flocking liberal.... sorry I disappointed you both with no diatribe.
I prefer dialog over rancor.
And, if you think calling me a snowflake is an insult, think again.... I'd rather be unique than a lemming.
Not that I am calling either of you lemmings, but I am sure you can understand the reference to marching lockstep.
Anyway, have fun with your reticent friends.. I am changing my advice.... please tell them to stay home.... Mexico is not for wimps.
Peace.
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I apologize to you if you had ideas I was refering to you and you only as a snowflake....
Sorta kinda like your tepid reference to anyone who is a conservative, a lemming... |
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JoeJustJoe
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| Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali |
Regardless of foreign nationals living in Mexico with gobs of money or not, it remains as the LAW that they do so with the proper documents allowing
them to live in Mexico.
If Mexican immigration officials turn a blind eye, who's fault is that?
You, as an anarchist, approve of anyone flaunting the law. That's what you do.
Last I heard, the push is to deport criminal illegal aliens and the DACA kids will get pass.
The parents of those DACA kids who are still illegal after all the years of living in the USA, should get legal and there are NO storm troops rounding
them up are there?
It's all about doing the right thing and not taking advantage of the host country out of respect for that host countries laws.
If those foreign nationals are living in Rosarito Beach illegally, shame on them and I can only hope they get deported forthwith.
Yes it's true some of those illegals pay some taxes and it's also true that many do not. It is also true that out of the estimated 11 million living
illegally in the USA, many are criminals with criminal records who are killing, raping and victimizing innocent people.
Don't be fooled into thinking that all 11 million are the hard working, law abiding sort.
With all the various IRS deductions and credits, it's highly likely that a low income worker is getting money back via the earned income credit and
end up getting money back that they never paid in. Backdoor welfare.
And is that now the standard?....pay some taxes and you get a pass on being legal?....only an anarchist like you would agree to that.
By no measure should doing the right thing be turned on it's ear and now become the wrong thing.
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Your augments are weak DaliDali.
First you were saying Mexico like the USA has tough immigration standards even to US citizens, but when you learn Mexico immigration standards as as
porous as swiss cheese, and anybody could just walk over the border and pretty much live in Mexico with no problems.
So now you change your argument, and say you don't care what other countries like Mexico do with their immigration polices, and the US is a nation of
law, or similar BS.
Get off your high horse DaliDail, nobody cares what you think. The US borders are porous for a reason, America loves cheap labor, and immigrants have
alway been a net gain to the USA, especially looking at it from a federal level. Even if undocumented immigrants don't pay federal taxes like 47% of
other Americans, they still pay those taxes indirectly through rent, and every time they visit the stores.
Undocumented immigrants are not eligible for earned income credits, Social Security, or Medicare.
We need to open the borders for easy access like in Europe. I'm amazed that if I still had a Mexican girlfriend, I could easily take her on vacation
with me to Disneyland, in Paris, but I couldn't take her to the Disneyland in Anaheim Ca, without filling out much paperwork, and waiting in lines
that could take years. ,
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Cliffy
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This has really been an interesting journey for a few days. I ask a simple question to be able to print off the answers from those who's opinions I
generally respect- those on this forum and I get a diatribe pointed at me, my motives, my political bent and even my integrity. WOW! I thought only
whirlpools went down the drain in circles. Look where this thread went!
I don't mind any "conversation" about politics. I do take umbrage with name calling, labeling and curt expressions. If you can't support or express
your position with facts but have to depend on name calling and vicious labeling, then I'm out of the conversation.
Support your position with facts or stay silent. Leave everyone guessing about your intelligence rather than confirm their suppositions.
Some of us really do want to hear the other side of the equation but will not condone slanderous language.
You chose your position in life today by what YOU did yesterday
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lencho
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| Quote: Originally posted by Bubba | | They're not, they are working under the table and sending a large percentage of the untaxed money back to Mexico. |
Isn't that illegal?
To employ people under the table like that? 
"I can normally tell how intelligent a man is, by how stupid he thinks I
am."
"...they were careful of their demeanor that they not be thought to have opinions on what they heard for like most men skilled at their work they
were scornful of any least suggestion of knowing anything not learned at first hand."
Cormac McCarthy, All the Pretty Horses
"Be kind, be patient, help others." -- Isabel Allende
"My gas stove identifies as electric." Anonymous
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mtgoat666
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The GOP believes that the employer should be rewarded with a tax cut, and the employee should be deported by jack-booted thugs.
Seriously, the GOP solution is to turn a blind eye to illegal acts of employers, and to penalize the employee by deporting.
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Cliffy
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"jack-booted thugs."
Again with the name calling. Why can't you discuss something without resorting to name calling? Is it beyond you to hold a normal conversation? Have
you no education or manners? Do you really think anyone will listen to you with that attitude? I just ignore your position until you speak in a
respectful manner. If you don't, you don't exist as far as I'm concerned. You'll never change any minds with that kind of language
You chose your position in life today by what YOU did yesterday
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy | "jack-booted thugs."
Again with the name calling. Why can't you discuss something without resorting to name calling? Is it beyond you to hold a normal conversation? Have
you no education or manners? Do you really think anyone will listen to you with that attitude? I just ignore your position until you speak in a
respectful manner. If you don't, you don't exist as far as I'm concerned. You'll never change any minds with that kind of language
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I've witnessed raids/deportations. It can only be described as thuggery. Open your eyes.
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LancairDriver
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As a long time employer with businesses in CA and OR I can attest to the fact that there are very stiff penalties for hiring an illegal on both the
federal and state level. I can't understand how any employer could get around the system as it is their responsibility to prove they have verified all
the potential employees documentation and it is hardly worth exposing themselves to very large fines and even lawsuits from the illegal employee in
the event of injury. As for paying under the table without deducting the required taxes, an employer would be paying taxes out of their own pocket
from their profit and in fact self insuring the illegal personally, which could result in bankruptcy in case of injury without Workmen's comp
insurance. The average homeowner trying to get an odd job done using undocumented workers either doesn't understand the potential risks or foolishly
chances it. I recall a couple of potential Clinton judicial appointees were forced to withdraw from consideration for employing undocumented domestic
workers. I understand it is a huge problem in the country but it is a mystery how it can be that large with stiff penalties for hiring illegals. This
has continued under both Democratic and Republican administrations.
| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 |
The GOP believes that the employer should be rewarded with a tax cut, and the employee should be deported by jack-booted thugs.
Seriously, the GOP solution is to turn a blind eye to illegal acts of employers, and to penalize the employee by deporting. |
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lencho
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| Quote: Originally posted by LancairDriver | | I understand it is a huge problem in the country but it is a mystery how it can be that large with stiff penalties for hiring illegals.
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Must be a huge money-maker for the employers to justify that risk. Or maybe the risk of getting caught isn't much of a concern.
"I can normally tell how intelligent a man is, by how stupid he thinks I
am."
"...they were careful of their demeanor that they not be thought to have opinions on what they heard for like most men skilled at their work they
were scornful of any least suggestion of knowing anything not learned at first hand."
Cormac McCarthy, All the Pretty Horses
"Be kind, be patient, help others." -- Isabel Allende
"My gas stove identifies as electric." Anonymous
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JoeJustJoe
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| Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy | "jack-booted thugs."
Again with the name calling. Why can't you discuss something without resorting to name calling? Is it beyond you to hold a normal conversation? Have
you no education or manners? Do you really think anyone will listen to you with that attitude? I just ignore your position until you speak in a
respectful manner. If you don't, you don't exist as far as I'm concerned. You'll never change any minds with that kind of language
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Cliffy, you are starting to whine a little bit too much. Let me remind you that it you who started a very controversial topic, on a nonexistent
problem of Mexico or Mexicans retaliating against US expats or tourists, because of Trump's immigration polices.
Your topic is just a variation of similar topic started over a week ago, titled, " Mexico to retaliate against U.S expats" which was pure BS, and fake
news found on some obscure blog, and then re-posted here.
What happened Cliffy, didn't you get your answer in that thread, that ended in heated exchanges, and finally closed?
You can't start a thread about Trump, and his draconian immigration polices without the discussion becoming heated. If you can't stand the heat
Cliffy, then stay out of the kitchen.
BTW, to believe Mexicans are going to retaliate against Americans in Mexico, because of a US President, or his immigration polices, is pretty
insulting to many if not most Mexicans.
_______________________________
Here is another thread of the same topic that got so heated it had to be closed down:
Mexico to retaliate against U.S. expats?
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=85697
[Edited on 2-25-2017 by JoeJustJoe]
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Lobsterman
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 |
The GOP believes that the employer should be rewarded with a tax cut, and the employee should be deported by jack-booted thugs.
Seriously, the GOP solution is to turn a blind eye to illegal acts of employers, and to penalize the employee by deporting. |
Watch what you ask for Goat.
National Identity Cards and fines and/or jail time for employers of illegals is just around the corner. That one act alone by the DOJ will do more for
stemming illegal immigration into our country than any other single enforcement policy. Without a job and/or social benefits many illegals will head
north to Canada or head home. A very easy solution to help eliminate our immigration problem. Along with the Wall, extraction teams, enforcement of
immigration law, intelligence, additional manpower and modern technology will soon close the other gaps in our immigration policies.
Mexico and other countries were smart to enforce and protect their borders of illegals from day one. The USA on the other hand has not because one
side wants more voters and the other side wants slave labor to make their widgets or clean their rooms. We all know now what the silent majority in
the USA wants and will soon get.
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JoeJustJoe
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| Quote: Originally posted by lencho | | Quote: Originally posted by LancairDriver | | I understand it is a huge problem in the country but it is a mystery how it can be that large with stiff penalties for hiring illegals.
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Must be a huge money-maker for the employers to justify that risk. Or maybe the risk of getting caught isn't much of a concern.
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Ha that funny employers taking risks for hiring undocumented Mexican workers.
The Goat is right, the only ones who end up with the short end of the stick are the Mexican undocumented employees who get deported without collecting
their last paychecks.
The employers almost always get away with their crimes, and if caught will get a slap on the wrist, and pay a paltry fine of between $250 to $2000,
but in reality the majority of employers don't get caught, and if you look at the history of fines with both the Bush and Obama, administrations, the
combined fines of one year, barely added up to about $1 million dollars nationwide, and that's nothing nationwide for a whole year.
If you remember a few years ago, Bush's border patrol was cracking down at bus stops, and restaurants. Obama, was named the "deporter in Chief"
because he deported more undocumented Mexican workers, that Bush, but both Bush and Obama, really didn't go after the employers. In fact I think the
employers were offered amnesty too under Obama.
The current laws on the book are virtually unenforceable, because the employer doesn't really have to verify if the documents presented by the worker
are authentic or not, and if they look pretty good, the Mexican worker gets hired.
It's not like the employers have to use the he E-Verify system, and thanks both the Republicans and Democrats in both houses, I doubt the E-Verify
system, or what Lobsterman, is talking about will ever be the law of the land.
You are sadly mistaken if you think things will change that much with Trump, although I'm sure he will talk tough.
[Edited on 2-25-2017 by JoeJustJoe]
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Cliffy
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Sometimes a question is just that- only a question with no underlying intent to deceive.
Uncharacteristically to some, I too agree that if you stop the jobs you stop the illegal immigration. Now, how to fill those jobs legally is the
question.
As I stated a LONG time ago, I'm not a fan of either party because of their duplicitous ways. They both lie and their leaders lie outright to the
American public. This can be proven with facts. Harry Reid on Romney taxes and McConnell to Ted Cruz.
You chose your position in life today by what YOU did yesterday
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AKgringo
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I haven't been to Rocky Point in fifteen years....I wonder what is going to happen to the local climate and sea level in the era of Trump?
That should be good for another five pages! I don't think Cliffy is going to get anymore useful information for his friends, so let's move on!
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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