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MMc
Super Nomad
Posts: 1679
Registered: 6-29-2011
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I wonder if this isn't more about the opening up of the retail Mexican business. If you don't have a permit you don't sell gas. Pemi might be trying
to hold on to what they have, for as long as they can.
"Never teach a pig to sing it frustrates you and annoys the pig" - W.C.Fields
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BajaBlanca
Select Nomad
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Those off road gas sellers once saved my tush when coming south through Cataviña, I realized the last gas station had not filled me up like I asked!
I was on fumes, on my own, and cannot fathom what it would have been like had they not been there.
I sure hope reason enters the equation and the issue becomes moot.
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billklaser
Nomad
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Just came down to Loreto, Catavina and LA Junction had barrels.
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David K
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Cataviña yesterday was selling gas at $5 : gallon. Last month, I saw signs for gas in Comondu and San Isidro (next to La Purísima). Government hates
competition!
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Gulliver
Senior Nomad
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Yesterday I sent an email to Mike and Cholie who run Cowabunga rental bungalows over in San Juanico. They'll know more about what is going on.
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Gulliver
Senior Nomad
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Just got this from San Juanico:
"Yes this is true, no gas, it just happened and we don't know how long it will last it sucks but it was the federales. It is a big deal. Make sure
everyone has extra gas."
Sigh. Sometimes things go beyond the usual random stuff and really hurt the small people. This is very hard on the fishermen and rancheros.
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motoged
Elite Nomad
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David,
What do you suggest would be an appropriate solution ? How would you regulate sales and distribution?
Don't believe everything you think....
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David K
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The Free Market!
It has worked since the beginning of time.
Socialism was dreamed up by Karl Marx, a spoiled brat who lived off others and figured a great way to create jealousy and conflict between those
unwilling to work smart or hard and those who did. Government has no business operating business if the citizens have the ability to provide a
service. Citizens should not have to compete against their own government. The purpose of government is to protect and serve, not compete with the
people.
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norte
Super Nomad
Posts: 1163
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Quote: Originally posted by motoged  |
David,
What do you suggest would be an appropriate solution ? How would you regulate sales and distribution? |
Unregulated business is always the best...unless, of course, it hurts you personally (like in short litres). Could you imagine sidewalk gasoline
sales in the USA or Canada?
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motoged
Elite Nomad
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I agree....and are regulations not a means of serving and protecting. Regulations could get out of control in either direction....too many or too few.
"Free market" is a great slogan, but how "free" is it....take a look at corporate monopolies ....for example, your boy's health care ideas are to
"serve and protect" insurance companies more than the people.
According to the Constitution of the United States, the federal government was established for six specific purposes. These purposes include unity,
justice, domestic tranquility, defense, promotion of the general welfare of the citizens and securing liberty for all.
The purposes of government include maintenance of a social order, providing public services, providing national protection and making national
economic decisions.
A conservative website, RedState, has an interesting article (2012....pre-Trumpism):
"The Only Purpose For Government In A Free Society
Aside from the occasional anarchist, few people question the need for government. Even the Colonial freedom fighters expressed the need for
government in the Declaration of Independence, wherein they called for replacing rule of a king with a government that derived its power from the
consent of the governed. As soon as British troops and their Hessian mercenaries were excused to return to their homes across the Atlantic,
representatives of the free colonies set to work to define a new government. Taking large sections from existing colonial constitutions already in
place in Virginia and elsewhere, they carefully drafted the original U.S. Constitution.
At that time, many thought the purpose of the Constitution was to unite the colonies for mutual defense and to guaranty the free flow of interstate
commerce. But a majority of the framers demanded that the document also guaranty certain human rights, which they highlighted by creating the Bill of
Rights contained in the first ten amendments. It’s by reading the Bill Of Rights that we discover the only purpose for government in a free
society.
The Bill of Rights specifically restricts the federal government from infringing upon certain rights of the People and of the States. Along with the
Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, there are thousands of papers, pamphlets and letters written by America’s founders that confirm
government’s ultimate purpose –
To protect the liberty of the individual citizen.
Other than referring to elected and appointed officials as “the Government” or “the States” and everyone else as “the People,” the
Constitution makes no reference to any classes, groups or organizations that have any special rights or privileges. All rights are afforded to the
People and the individual citizen.
The government is charged with certain tasks, enumerated in the Constitution, that contribute towards protecting individual liberty.
– National defense secures an environment in which individual liberty can be enjoyed.
– Regulation of interstate commerce protects the right of citizens to conduct free trade within the union, either individually or through
companies ultimately owned by people
– Protection of liberties listed in the Bill Of Rights and elsewhere
– Many others…
Only when government is the tool of a dictatorship or tyranny does it operate for any purpose other than to serve the people. Every function of
government should be traced to a specific Constitutionally-authorized task that ultimately benefits all the people equally. When the actions of
government benefit one group over another, that is a sign that a dictatorship or tyranny is in control and protection of individual liberty is at
risk.
The Declaration of Independence states –
“That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever
any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,
laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and
Happiness.”
The Declaration and the Constitution are abundantly clear – the purpose of government is to secure the rights of the people. When government ceases
to provide equal liberty for all and undertakes tasks not authorized by the People, that government should be replaced."
So, David, if you are questioning the need for government (and its duties) you could be an anarchist.....or, if you agree that the government is
intended to serve "the people", you are sounding like a socialist.
Which is it?
And about all your Karl Marx crap....where do you get your historical personality info from?
I am not a Marxist, so don't bother going there....
So....Mexico's government is attempting to manage their petroleum industry by new rules? Okay....that fits into most descriptions of such a role...
Maybe the guys stealing gas from pipelines are the "free market" you speak of ?
And, while you are thinking.....there are a range of types of governments:
What Are the Different Types of Governments?
By Remy Melina | February 14, 2011 12:57pm ET
Here's a rundown of the various forms of government, with definitions provided by "The World Factbook."
Absolute monarchy - a form of government where the monarch rules unhindered, i.e., without any laws, constitution or legally organized opposition.
Anarchy - a condition of lawlessness or political disorder brought about by the absence of governmental authority.
Authoritarian - a form of government in which state authority is imposed onto many aspects of citizens' lives.
Commonwealth - a nation, state or other political entity founded on law and united by a compact of the people for the common good.
Communist - a system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single -- often authoritarian -- party holds power; state
controls are imposed with the elimination of private ownership of property or capital while claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in
which all goods are equally shared by the people (i.e., a classless society).
Confederacy (Confederation) - a union by compact or treaty between states, provinces or territories that creates a central government with limited
powers; the constituent entities retain supreme authority over all matters except those delegated to the central government.
Constitutional - a government by or operating under an authoritative document (constitution) that sets forth the system of fundamental laws and
principles that determines the nature, functions and limits of that government.
Constitutional democracy - a form of government in which the sovereign power of the people is spelled out in a governing constitution.
Constitutional monarchy - a system of government in which a monarch is guided by a constitution whereby his/her rights, duties, and responsibilities
are spelled out in written law or by custom.
Democracy - a form of government in which the supreme power is retained by the people, but which is usually exercised indirectly through a system of
representation and delegated authority periodically renewed.
Democratic republic - a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible
to them.
Dictatorship - a form of government in which a ruler or small clique wield absolute power (not restricted by a constitution or laws).
Ecclesiastical - a government administrated by a church.
Emirate - similar to a monarchy or sultanate, a government in which the supreme power is in the hands of an emir (the ruler of a Muslim state); the
emir may be an absolute overlord or a sovereign with constitutionally limited authority.
Federal (Federation) - a form of government in which sovereign power is formally divided -- usually by means of a constitution -- between a central
authority and a number of constituent regions (states, colonies or provinces) so that each region retains some management of its internal affairs;
differs from a confederacy in that the central government exerts influence directly upon both individuals as well as upon the regional units.
Federal republic - a state in which the powers of the central government are restricted and in which the component parts (states, colonies, or
provinces) retain a degree of self-government; ultimate sovereign power rests with the voters who chose their governmental representatives.
Islamic republic - a particular form of government adopted by some Muslim states; although such a state is, in theory, a theocracy, it remains a
republic, but its laws are required to be compatible with the laws of Islam.
Maoism - the theory and practice of Marxism-Leninism developed in China by Mao Zedong (Mao Tse-tung), which states that a continuous revolution is
necessary if the leaders of a communist state are to keep in touch with the people.
Marxism - the political, economic and social principles espoused by 19th century economist Karl Marx; he viewed the struggle of workers as a
progression of historical forces that would proceed from a class struggle of the proletariat (workers) exploited by capitalists (business owners), to
a socialist "dictatorship of the proletariat," to, finally, a classless society -- Communism.
Marxism-Leninism - an expanded form of communism developed by Vladimir Lenin from doctrines of Karl Marx; Lenin saw imperialism as the final stage of
capitalism and shifted the focus of workers' struggle from developed to underdeveloped countries.
Monarchy - a government in which the supreme power is lodged in the hands of a monarch who reigns over a state or territory, usually for life and by
hereditary right; the monarch may be either a sole absolute ruler or a sovereign - such as a king, queen or prince - with constitutionally limited
authority.
Oligarchy - a government in which control is exercised by a small group of individuals whose authority generally is based on wealth or power.
Parliamentary democracy - a political system in which the legislature (parliament) selects the government - a prime minister, premier or chancellor
along with the cabinet ministers - according to party strength as expressed in elections; by this system, the government acquires a dual
responsibility: to the people as well as to the parliament.
Parliamentary government (Cabinet-Parliamentary government) - a government in which members of an executive branch (the cabinet and its leader - a
prime minister, premier or chancellor) are nominated to their positions by a legislature or parliament, and are directly responsible to it; this type
of government can be dissolved at will by the parliament (legislature) by means of a no-confidence vote or the leader of the cabinet may dissolve the
parliament if it can no longer function.
Parliamentary monarchy - a state headed by a monarch who is not actively involved in policy formation or implementation (i.e., the exercise of
sovereign powers by a monarch in a ceremonial capacity); true governmental leadership is carried out by a cabinet and its head - a prime minister,
premier or chancellor - who are drawn from a legislature (parliament).
Presidential - a system of government where the executive branch exists separately from a legislature (to which it is generally not accountable).
Republic - a representative democracy in which the people's elected deputies (representatives), not the people themselves, vote on legislation.
Socialism - a government in which the means of planning, producing and distributing goods is controlled by a central government that theoretically
seeks a more just and equitable distribution of property and labor; in actuality, most socialist governments have ended up being no more than
dictatorships over workers by a ruling elite.
Sultanate - similar to a monarchy, a government in which the supreme power is in the hands of a sultan (the head of a Muslim state); the sultan may be
an absolute ruler or a sovereign with constitutionally limited authority.
Theocracy - a form of government in which a Deity is recognized as the supreme civil ruler, the Deity's laws are interpreted by ecclesiastical
authorities (bishops, mullahs, etc.); a government subject to religious authority.
Totalitarian - a government that seeks to subordinate the individual to the state by controlling not only all political and economic matters, but also
the attitudes, values and beliefs of its population.
[Edited on 3-7-2017 by motoged]
Don't believe everything you think....
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Gulliver
Senior Nomad
Posts: 651
Registered: 11-18-2013
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I totally agree. I'm a strong supporter of free enterprise but I see no way to have a level playing field without strong regulation.
My personal beef with what seems to have happened over around San Juanico is that given the history of government action in Mexico, the action was
almost certainly not for safety reasons. I would bet that it has to do with some combination of local crabbing over turf between "off the books"
vendors, regional government officials trying to make a one size fit all scheme work in a small town, and an attempt by the Insurgentes Pemex station
owner(s) to corner the market and to hell with the public good.
Trying to understand how things work down here in terms of what we are used to in Western societies is a recipe for frustration and gut busting
laughter. Mexico has never had a government that is easily distinguishable from a criminal conspiracy. And that attitude flows down to the local
level.
We grow up in a society where we get busted for speeding, pay the ticket and go on. We're used to it and don't find it that frightening. Down here, we
get busted for speeding (Ha! I need a better example.), we pay the cop and go about our business. We aren't used to it and it feels scary and wrong
and unfair.
Well, guess what? You pay less here than in the states and a part of the money actually goes to feed the cop's kids. I know how often our Mulege
police and city workers go for weeks and sometimes months with our seeing a paycheck. They set out a few cones every December on the way through town
to collect a bit of cash for a christmas dinner for the police staff. I contribute generously because they seem to keep the level of foolishness down
without much drama.
It took me a quite a while to understand and adjust to a system I wasn't familiar with. I'm still working at it. Now if they'd just sort out this gas
situation . . .
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motoged
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6481
Registered: 7-31-2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
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As with other Nomads, I have cherished the local "outback" gas vendors....and NEVER complain about whatever they charge...as it's the norm for
exploring away from towns with Pemex services.
Whatever the reasons are for the latest purge, I also believe it will return to the previous normal.
And, yes, I have bought gas from barrels in Canada and the USA as sometimes there just isn't a Chevron, etc nearby.
The barrels inevitably are a rancher/farmer's stash... Woohoo "free market/ free enterprise".... we all love it until it works against us....
Don't believe everything you think....
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Gulliver
Senior Nomad
Posts: 651
Registered: 11-18-2013
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I am informed that San Juanico's electrical power comes from a generator which only runs four hours a day. Hence any electrically driven gas pump
would follow that schedule.
Never a dull moment.
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Bajazly
Senior Nomad
Posts: 991
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Mood: More Relaxed Everyday
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But a siphon works 24/7
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15937
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Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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What happened to the windmill farm?
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Gulliver
Senior Nomad
Posts: 651
Registered: 11-18-2013
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Siphon not needed in San Isidro last year. The gal selling gas lifted up a five gallon plastic can like is was empty and poured it into my bike. I
don't think she was even straining.
Not someone I would challenge to an arm wrestling match!
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pacsur
Nomad
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Location: San Jose del Cabo,BCS
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https://colectivopericu.net/2017/03/07/federales-se-extralim...
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64476
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Location: San Diego County
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Wonderful news! I hope that those who provide this valuable service where Pemex has no stations, can soon be back in business!
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Gulliver
Senior Nomad
Posts: 651
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A poor computer translation for those of us with shamefully bad Spanish:
Deputy Venustiano Pérez Sánchez urged Federal, State and municipal authorities who immediately cease operations carrying out the Attorney-General's
Office against persons who, in the North of the State, sold fuel to detail, "as long as there are not alternatives for supply of petrol and diesel in
rural areas away from Baja California Sur".
In statement presented at the meeting of the Standing Committee of the Congress of the State legislature representative of the tenth Prime Electoral
District said that following this type of actions undertaken by the authority, and the real fear of the population engage in an illicit, become at
risk fisheries, agricultural, tourist activities and in general movements everyday families in dozens of communities in the municipalities of Comondú
Loreto and Mulege."
Explained the Deputy Pérez Sánchez that is not no affordable way to establish a gas station, to the North of the State in small populations that for
many years has been custom that the fuel is carried in Jerry cans and retail sale by individuals, "who are not committing any crime, but fulfilling an
important social role in the communities" , specifying that who perform this type of trade of fuel passing more than 100 kilometers to carry it to
your destination end.
Warned to them authorities state and municipal that if already not is going to allow the sale of gasoline of this form, "the Government should of
search any alternative that not leave in desamparo to them sectors agricultural and fishing and to them families, that require of fuel to perform
their activities productive and personal".
[Edited on 3-8-2017 by Gulliver]
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Tomas Tierra
Super Nomad
Posts: 1281
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Location: oxnard, ca
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I just read on talk Baja that gas is available again in San Jaunico ..
Sorry to get back on topic like that
TT
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