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Author: Subject: Where the border fence meets the sea, a strange beach scene contrasting the U.S. and Mexico
pauldavidmena
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[*] posted on 9-8-2017 at 06:26 AM


Most of my ancestors emigrated from Spain to Puerto Rico during the 19th century. 3 of my 4 grandparents were born in Puerto Rico but moved to the U.S. in the early 20th century. Then, one day in 1917, they became instant U.S. citizens - and immediately eligible for the draft during WWI. Not a "typical immigrant story".

My maternal grandfather was born in the Philippines during the Spanish-American War. His mother was a young Filipina, but his father was a U.S. sailor, making him an American Citizen. He came to NY via boat as a teenager and enlisted in the Navy in time for WWI. Also not a typical immigrant story, making me wonder if there really is such a thing.

[Edited on 9-9-2017 by pauldavidmena]




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[*] posted on 9-8-2017 at 06:56 AM


Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  


The children that came here "illegally" have today known no other county, so they are as a American as any other kid born here. It is just cruel to threaten to deport them. These kids deserve opportunity and status here as much as any kid born here. Any person against DACA and dreamers, or against compassionate/inclusive immigration law, is just a cruel mother flocker and unamerican.


All true and correct, but there's a proper way to go about it. Immigration control doesn't cease to be an issue for moral reasons.




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David K
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[*] posted on 9-8-2017 at 08:06 AM


Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by aguachico  
After multiple trips to US immigration, I have more respect for the LEGAL then ever before.

Entering my country illegally should never be an option. Stop rewarding cheaters.

Don't blame the USA, blame Mexico.


I don't blame people for xing border for work. They gotta do what they gotta do. If you feel compelled to assign blame, then blame the gringos that hire illegals. They are in a position to hire legal but choose not to, they make the market.

The children that came here "illegally" have today known no other county, so they are as a American as any other kid born here. It is just cruel to threaten to deport them. These kids deserve opportunity and status here as much as any kid born here. Any person against DACA and dreamers, or against compassionate/inclusive immigration law, is just a cruel mother flocker and unamerican.



[Edited on 9-8-2017 by mtgoat666]



Why haven't they (or the ones worried) made any attempt to become legal American citizens during any of the years they lived here?

If they are children still, are not the parents at least a tiny bit concerned about their children's ability to stay in the U.S. and do something to get them legal status?

Every other nationality has done so, why do some in the U.S. feel the need to exclude Mexican citizens from the law? That seems to me a bit insulting to Mexicans living here as if saying they are not able to become American citizens as every other nationality has done who wants to live here.




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[*] posted on 9-8-2017 at 08:54 AM


Quote: Originally posted by David K  



Why haven't they (or the ones worried) made any attempt to become legal American citizens during any of the years they lived here?



As far as DACA recipients are concerned, their parents brought them to the United States illegally, when they were children. Currently, you can't be in the United States illegally and apply for legal status. It doesn't work that way. That's called amnesty. But it has been done before, Reagan did it.

I would like to see DACA recipients given a path to citizenship. My opinion is it's the right thing, the American thing, to do.

Adding the 800,000 DACA recipients would increase the population by about 0.25%. Only one-quarter of one percent.

BTW, DACA applies to all nationalities, not just Mexicans. Over 1/2 the illegals entered the US legally with some sort of temporary visa but never left. So there are many nationalities.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/visa-overstays-outnumber...

Reagan's amnesty:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control...


[Edited on 9-8-2017 by SFandH]




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[*] posted on 9-8-2017 at 09:54 AM


So is the deal gonna be DACA for the dems and E-verify as the law for all new employees nationally for the other guys??

Stinks for both sides, so must be good ????






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[*] posted on 9-8-2017 at 11:31 AM


Quote: Originally posted by aguachico  
After multiple trips to US immigration, I have more respect for the LEGAL then ever before.

Entering my country illegally should never be an option. Stop rewarding cheaters.

Don't blame the USA, blame Mexico.


Under the current new immigration guidelines, that now favor limited English speaking white immigrants, you would have to be a fool now to wait in line to come to the US, because your chances now will be nil.

Even the previous immigration guidelines were pretty much unfair to Mexicans immigrants, without money, high levels of work skills, or without family already in the USA, stood a low chance of winning the USA immigration lottery. Screw that!

If you have a hungry family, and unemployed in Mexico. I say you come to the USA any way you can, papers or no papers. There are plenty of jobs here that are relativity high paying, and the USA still makes it easy to live and work here in the US, with papers or no papers.

The talk of walls, and taking a hard stance against Mexican immigrants will probably stop in a few months, because of DACA overreach, which will probably cause a backlash to the current racist administration.




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[*] posted on 9-8-2017 at 12:00 PM


Well, someone mentioned Indians and I just finished the most extraordinary book about life on a ranch right on the border of USA and Mexico in the 1880s.

A BEAUTIFUL CRUEL COUNTRY written by Eva Antonia Wilbur-Cruce chronicles her young life. She wrote the book in her 80's! Foir those of us who have both Spanish and English vocabulary knowledge, the book was really beautiful as she uses so much Spanish throughout.

Incredible insight into discrimination against anyone who was Indian or Hispanic and to the mass exodus of Indians forced onto a reservation.

http://tucsoncitizen.com/morgue2/1998/02/04/110398-obituary/




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[*] posted on 9-8-2017 at 08:44 PM


I'm no fool. OK un poco. :cool:

What it comes down to is that the united states needs a real wall on it's southern border. Stop butt-kissing PAC that are pro illegal immigrant. Being illegal in this country is a crime and it affects everyone.

You have to stop the slave trade before you can create a good policy. You can't save everyone. You can't let everyone in. Once the flow of illegal aliens is stopped, then create an immigration policy that's fair.

If Mexico gets immigration preference, so what, at least it is documented. Within the country of Mexico you have people attempting to gain lawful citizenship @~~$200 a pop and tourist visa's into the USA. Why is it OK for someone to cheat and sneak across?

It isn't.

There no logical argument to justify breaking the law when you have others obeying the law. You can sit in margaritaville and argue this until you are blue in the face, but you are wrong.

I have seen the affects of illegal immigration full circle. My opinion is based on knowing those that have succeeded and had to return. Those that have tried and failed and those that have tried to do it legally. Some have succeeded, most do not.

The only way to fix it once and for all, is to close the holes first. Otherwise 20 years from now nothing will have changed.
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[*] posted on 9-9-2017 at 09:08 AM



Mexico's second largest source of income, behind oil. They will fight to the end to keep the flow going south, largely from a demographic that wouldn't qualify for legal status.
Mexico isn't fighting in the ring because they love their people. They're the cause of the people's problems to begin with. They just want their money in their economy.

http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/02/10/51417267...




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[*] posted on 9-9-2017 at 09:17 AM


Quote: Originally posted by aguachico  


What it comes down to is that the united states needs a real wall on it's southern border.


Over 1/2 of the "illegals" entered with valid temporary visas via land crossings, airports, and ship terminals and never left. Another large percentage enter concealed in cars and more so lately in cargo trucks right under the inspector's noses. And of course, there are ladders and tunnels.

The wall is not a silver bullet and an effective one (maybe) will cost billions. It will require confiscation of private property, the building of access roads, and constant patrolling and maintenance.

I believe that there are high tech means - drones, sensors, cameras, combined with barriers in populated areas, that can accomplish the job better and cheaper. The Trump continuous wall along the border and make Mexico pay for it is theatrics initiated by Trump to get elected by creating a scapegoat (Mexicans) for people to blame their problems on. The first words out of his mouth when he started his campaign created the Mexican scapegoat. Classic move. Politicians have unjustly vilified groups of people throughout history to create a following.

Build a wall, problems solved. Yeah, sure.



[Edited on 9-9-2017 by SFandH]




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[*] posted on 9-9-2017 at 09:35 AM


Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
Quote: Originally posted by aguachico  


What it comes down to is that the united states needs a real wall on it's southern border.


Over 1/2 of the "illegals" entered with valid temporary visas and never left. Another large percentage enter concealed in cars and more so lately in cargo trucks right under the inspector's noses.

The wall is not a silver bullet and an effective one (maybe) will cost billions. It will require confiscation of private property, the building of access roads, and constant patrolling and maintenance.

I believe that there are high tech means - drones, sensors, cameras, combined with barriers in populated areas, that can accomplish the job better and cheaper. The Trump continuous wall along the border and make Mexico pay for it is theatrics initiated by Trump to get elected by creating a scapegoat (Mexicans) for people to blame their problems on. The first words out of his mouth when he started his campaign created the Mexican scapegoat. Classic move. Politicians have unjustly vilified groups of people throughout history to create a following.

Build a wall, problems solved. Yeah, sure.



[Edited on 9-9-2017 by SFandH]


Hitler
Mussolini
McCarthy
Le Pen
Bin Laden
Trump

The nationalists rise by telling the ignorant sheeple that their problems are all due to foreigners, minorities, people unlike you.
All bigots eventually get overthrown when humanity triumphs over evil.
But people are stupid herd animals, so if one bigoted nationalist movement gets beaten down, the dumb sheep will again be buffaloed by the next populist charlatan.

Trump is a monster, but will be lynched like all monsters are eventually lynched.
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[*] posted on 9-9-2017 at 10:12 AM



The alternative to a wall [of sorts] will be boots on the ground. What will be your choice then?

[Edited on 9-9-2017 by DENNIS]




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[*] posted on 9-9-2017 at 10:14 AM


Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  
Quote: Originally posted by aguachico  


What it comes down to is that the united states needs a real wall on it's southern border.


Over 1/2 of the "illegals" entered with valid temporary visas and never left. Another large percentage enter concealed in cars and more so lately in cargo trucks right under the inspector's noses.

The wall is not a silver bullet and an effective one (maybe) will cost billions. It will require confiscation of private property, the building of access roads, and constant patrolling and maintenance.

I believe that there are high tech means - drones, sensors, cameras, combined with barriers in populated areas, that can accomplish the job better and cheaper. The Trump continuous wall along the border and make Mexico pay for it is theatrics initiated by Trump to get elected by creating a scapegoat (Mexicans) for people to blame their problems on. The first words out of his mouth when he started his campaign created the Mexican scapegoat. Classic move. Politicians have unjustly vilified groups of people throughout history to create a following.

Build a wall, problems solved. Yeah, sure.



[Edited on 9-9-2017 by SFandH]


Hitler
Mussolini
McCarthy
Le Pen
Bin Laden
Trump

The nationalists rise by telling the ignorant sheeple that their problems are all due to foreigners, minorities, people unlike you.
All bigots eventually get overthrown when humanity triumphs over evil.
But people are stupid herd animals, so if one bigoted nationalist movement gets beaten down, the dumb sheep will again be buffaloed by the next populist charlatan.

Trump is a monster, but will be lynched like all monsters are eventually lynched.




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[*] posted on 9-9-2017 at 12:16 PM


Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  


Over 1/2 of the "illegals" entered with valid temporary visas via land crossings, airports, and ship terminals and never left. Another large percentage enter concealed in cars and more so lately in cargo trucks right under the inspector's noses. And of course, there are ladders and tunnels.

The wall is not a silver bullet and an effective one (maybe) will cost billions. It will require confiscation of private property, the building of access roads, and constant patrolling and maintenance.

I believe that there are high tech means - drones, sensors, cameras, combined with barriers in populated areas, that can accomplish the job better and cheaper. The Trump continuous wall along the border and make Mexico pay for it is theatrics initiated by Trump to get elected by creating a scapegoat (Mexicans) for people to blame their problems on. The first words out of his mouth when he started his campaign created the Mexican scapegoat. Classic move. Politicians have unjustly vilified groups of people throughout history to create a following.

Build a wall, problems solved. Yeah, sure.



Yeah how funny, Aguachico, and other Trump, followers, seem to have no idea, that most undocumented Mexicans aliens, don't jump the fence to come to the USA, but instead simply overstay their visas.

Even Trump, told Mexican President, The Border Wall is the least Important thing we are talking about, but politically this might be the most important."

It's just red meat, for the GOP voters.

The Mexican President Peña Nieto, then told Trump, "My position has been and will continue to be very firm, saying that Mexico cannot pay for the wall,"




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[*] posted on 9-11-2017 at 05:14 AM


Over 50%?

Ok, I would be happy starting with the other 49%. The cost of an efficient secure border is not my issue. I work for a living. I expect my government to secure the border to foreign invasion.

Period.

Whether I live in San Diego or OCCUPIED AZTLAN. <-- and I don't have a clue .

All the other methods of entrance can be easily controlled.

prayers to the victims of 9-11-2001.
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