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Author: Subject: what batteries to use
Alm
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[*] posted on 4-15-2018 at 06:59 PM


Li batteries are taking all "portable" sectors by storm. Not so much in shore homes. One thing Li don't tolerate is extreme heat, and there is plenty of this in Baja. Electric cars have liquid cooling just for battery, though not all of them.

New technologies pop up now and then, dealers are quick to jump in, but the truth is - shore homes do fine with traditional (and much cheaper) wet or AGM units. 1,344 AH that the OP is planning, is big enough, though I would assemble it of 12V or 6V units.
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bajapedro
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[*] posted on 4-16-2018 at 05:49 AM


Appreciate all the input.
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larryC
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[*] posted on 4-16-2018 at 06:54 AM


It does get a little tiring doesn't it? Opinions are like butts everyone has one.
Stick with the 2v cells. If one goes bad prematurely, which is really rare, then all you have to do is replace it. Not too big a deal.




Off grid, 12-190watt evergreen solar panels on solar trackers, 2-2812 stacked Outback inverters, 6-2v enersys 125-33 2000 amp hour AGM batteries, FM 80 and MX 60 Outback charge controllers, X-240 Outback transformer for 220v from inverter, 6500 watt Kubota diesel generator.
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[*] posted on 4-16-2018 at 07:33 AM


Larry,

Do you have a source in Baja for the 2v Batteries?
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weebray
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[*] posted on 4-16-2018 at 07:40 AM


Quote: Originally posted by Alm  
Li batteries are taking all "portable" sectors by storm. Not so much in shore homes. One thing Li don't tolerate is extreme heat, and there is plenty of this in Baja. Electric cars have liquid cooling just for battery, though not all of them.


I don't claim any expertise here but just for the sake of discussion the cooling problem can be solved relatively simply by putting them underground preferably along side of your cistern. What I am reading is that lead acid type systems will be obsolete due to their poor energy density. If you are starting from scratch you may want to do a full investigation. LI system with a well designed BMS should last a lifetime.




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Alm
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[*] posted on 4-16-2018 at 11:21 AM


Weebray, fancy term "low energy density" - for both flooded and AGM type - just means that they are heavier per AH. For a shore home this doesn't matter much. No, I'm not starting from a scratch, my solar has been running for 6 years now, with AGM.

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Alm
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[*] posted on 4-16-2018 at 11:35 AM


The thing with battery dying is that with a solar you don't know until it happens. Especially with AGM. There are warning signs to keep an eye on, but a big solar can keep system afloat when battery is one foot in the grave - and beyond. Just my butt of an "opinion".
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soylent_green
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[*] posted on 4-16-2018 at 01:28 PM


you should automatically ignore anyone who suggests a 12 V system for anything other than say a camper trailer.

those 2V batteries seems like a good way to get a get a large battery bank without having to parallel them. My 24v system is smaller, and I do fine with 4 x 6v 250 amp AGM full river batteries.

a great resource for batteries is Jeff at Deep Cycle Batteries in El Cajon CA. (619) 448-5323

Even though AGMs are more expensive, they still are way less than Lithium Ion batteries. Those will be the batteries of choice someday, but still cost prohibative for many

[Edited on 4-16-2018 by soylent_green]
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weebray
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[*] posted on 4-16-2018 at 04:28 PM


Following my son's advise of jfgi I discovered that a tesla powerwall for an 1100 sq. ft. casa with allowance for import duty should be about 10 grand - Installed. That's assuming 24 K Wh/day. Seems like one might do better if they did the installation and used other than the Cadillac version of powerwalls. How much would a new flooded system of equal K Wh cost? And I don't mean using the battery out of your brothers old Rambler.



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weebray
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[*] posted on 4-16-2018 at 04:33 PM


BTW, I am really only responding to the original post for a "new house" with a "new" system. Those of you that are already invested in old technologies certainly don't need to consider a powerwall from Tesla or anyone else. My system would be new also and that MAY make a difference?? I just assumed going with the newest technology was a lock.



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larryC
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[*] posted on 4-16-2018 at 05:47 PM


Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
Larry,

Do you have a source in Baja for the 2v Batteries?


Ralph
No source in Baja I find them up north and bring them down. Usually surplus telecom batteries.




Off grid, 12-190watt evergreen solar panels on solar trackers, 2-2812 stacked Outback inverters, 6-2v enersys 125-33 2000 amp hour AGM batteries, FM 80 and MX 60 Outback charge controllers, X-240 Outback transformer for 220v from inverter, 6500 watt Kubota diesel generator.
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Bob and Susan
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[*] posted on 4-16-2018 at 06:49 PM


larry...have they failed?

how long do they last?

have you ever had one fail and have no electricity?




our website is:
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weebray
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[*] posted on 4-17-2018 at 07:32 AM


Quote: Originally posted by larryC  
Quote: Originally posted by rts551  
Larry,

Do you have a source in Baja for the 2v Batteries?


Ralph
No source in Baja I find them up north and bring them down. Usually surplus telecom batteries.


Getting back to the original post can anyone give a general idea of the cost of a "new" lead acid system or should I JFGI.




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woody with a view
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[*] posted on 4-17-2018 at 09:51 AM


The guy Jeff above can answer all your questions. Great prices and ltsa guys in Baja use him for batteries. Larry has a guy but when I called his stock was zero.



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Alm
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[*] posted on 4-17-2018 at 11:20 AM


Quote: Originally posted by weebray  

Getting back to the original post can anyone give a general idea of the cost of a "new" lead acid system

The cost of a system - after size has been determined - depends on what units you are building it with: 2V, 6V, 12V. And whether it's flooded or AGM. And what brand.

Speaking of "old new" technology - including both flooded and AGM - I believe, it will still be there after even the youngest of the forum members have been long gone.

Electric cars and e-scooters are using Li for 2 main reasons: weight and fast recharging. The former doesn't matter for shore home application, the latter has its advantages. Though, if you read more on charging C rate, there are expensive marine AGM that can be charged at currents as high as C5, which is way more than an average solar or generator can produce. They cost almost as much as Li (in cycle cost - probably more than Li), but it will take a while before all boaters will start using Li, for many reasons.

[Edited on 4-17-2018 by Alm]
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Alm
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[*] posted on 4-17-2018 at 11:36 AM


Quote: Originally posted by weebray  
I just assumed going with the newest technology was a lock.

People who paid for newly released Win 8 assumed same thing :)... Sorry, coudln't resist.
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Alm
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[*] posted on 4-17-2018 at 12:19 PM


Bob, 2V that Larry mentioned, are surplus - old, not used. Doesn't mean it failed or will fail sooner than a new AGM.

I looked into surplus telecom a while ago, liked the prices but didn't like low charging current. Just something to be aware of.
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[*] posted on 4-18-2018 at 07:41 AM


Anybody using Northstar batteries? Our landlord showed us his new set-up when we were down at our casita & he was raving about them.
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larryC
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[*] posted on 4-19-2018 at 06:40 AM


Quote: Originally posted by Bob and Susan  
larry...have they failed?

how long do they last?

have you ever had one fail and have no electricity?


No failures, the least amount of time I have gotten out of them is 6 years. The current set I am using now was manufactured in Oct 2010 and I installed them in Oct 2011. They were bought by a casino in Las Vegas but were rejected upon delivery because of some minor shipping damage and I was able to get them for $200 ea. The best batteries I have used were the Absolyte llp. They were 5 years old when I got them and lasted 7 years. I got them for scrap value which was at that time about $40 each.




Off grid, 12-190watt evergreen solar panels on solar trackers, 2-2812 stacked Outback inverters, 6-2v enersys 125-33 2000 amp hour AGM batteries, FM 80 and MX 60 Outback charge controllers, X-240 Outback transformer for 220v from inverter, 6500 watt Kubota diesel generator.
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Alm
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[*] posted on 4-21-2018 at 11:12 PM


Elena, Northstar is a big company, different kinds of batteries. Good brand. Not cheap.

What people are often unaware of, is that telecom/ups batteries have charging and discharging profile different from regular AGM or flooded. Need to know the specs and how it fits with your particular system. Within the AGM realm, the heavier per AH - the better, usually.

Surplus @$40 each one can't go wrong with, that's for sure :)
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