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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17289
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe  | | Quote: Originally posted by larryC | I knew Ray and Jo well and I never heard Ray mention anything about Totoaba fishing. There are others down there that had more contact with Ray and
they also have never heard Ray mention anything about illegal fishing. I doubt that their murders had anything to do with illegal fishing. I suspect
it was a boat theft gone very bad. A few months before the attempted theft of Ray's boat another boat was stolen from in front of the Diaz compound
and towed out into the desert and stripped of its motors and electronics and then a few days later was set on fire. Marv Sherril posted here on Nomads
about finding the boat out in the desert and reporting it to the police.
I don't know about the other neighbors and friends of Ray and Jo but I haven't been speculating too much on here about the crime because I don't know
much. I don't see any reason to fuel false rumors. Hopefully the police will eventually get a lead on the perpetrators and make some arrests.
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I of course don't know Ray and Jo, at all, but I felt that was a little strange that "Zeta" is pinning the murders of Ray and Jo, on El Tekolin, and
his henchmen, according to the investigadores del Estado, who relayed this information to Zeta. So why aren't the added charges of murder of American
ex-pats added to the charges to El Tekolin, and why are his henchmen still walking free?
Ray and Jo, owned a boat, and I gather at least one of them fishes. So would a retired ex-pat to may fish for entertainment stick their neck out, and
report illegal fishing of an endangered fish like the totoaba? I would think it would be somebody like a liberal Greenpeace activists that would get
involved in something like this. I hate killing of innocent animals, including sports fisherman, but I don't think even I would get involved of
reporting illegal fishing)
Then there is the fact it looks like it was an attempted boat theft, but simple boat thieves are usually not the kind to use deadly violence, unless
of course Ray threatened them with a baseball bat. ( but he never got past the porch) |
Joe,
It was a boat burglary that escalated into homicidal armed robbery,... and the only lesson here is: don’t mess with robbers, they may either
tweeking or unhinged violent psycopaths.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
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Mood: Mad as hell
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| Quote: Originally posted by Alm | So now it's a cover-up by "Baja Nomad" (why BN - don't know, don't ask me), and people of BOLA "know" a bit more than it has been reported because
there was a lot of interest in the story first, but they are scared.... Brilliant conclusions by JJJ.
The article in Zeta that he denies any rights to be called a piece of intelligent journalism, is actually well written, if you take care to read. It
gives perspective through the eyes of Eddie, you can almost see that little town and people. It is also obvious what locals "know" - confusion and
anxiety. You/we know almost nothing about what really happened. |
Not so much as a cover up as perhaps pure fear, since El Tekolin, is believed to maintain control of totoaba traffic in the for a Mexican cartel, and
runs the area from San Felipe to the Bay of LA, and although El Tekolin, has been arrested, at least for awhile, his alleged hit men are still on the
loose.
If you recall, somebody in this thread said, the arrest of Ray and Jo's killers were imminent, and one was arrested, and the other was soon going to
be arrested. Another "Baja Nomad' member said, the ex-pats in BOLA were exchanging information about the imminent arrest of the American killers, but
they were keeping quiet because the bad guys read the internet too.
I simply wanted to know if the rumor about the supposedly imminent arrest had anything to do with El Tekolin, and his boys, but those "Baja Nomad"
members are silent when I know at least one of them is still active on this site.
Regarding Zeta, I said they were an awarding winning journalist magazine, and a few of their reporters have been killed, however, I also said from
personal experience of a friend of mine, "Zeta" did a few one-sided unfair report, that I knew was pure BS, and because of that, I now take what Zeta
says with a grain of salt, although I still respect the magazine overall.
Alm, the article from Eddie's perspective, was not from Zeta, it was from the "San Diego reader, where wannabee reporters send in their articles
hoping that the "SD Reader" posts their article, so they get $100 dollars. I agree with you how it came off like you were there, but I said, it read
like a screen play, however, that's not investigative reporting and it had an anti-Baja, fear mongering backdrop.
The bottom line, one of the articles has to be wrong, the San Diego Reader, said it was all about the theft of the boat, and the Zeta, says it's
about the endangered fish, and Ray and Jo, were killed by assassins, because they reported the illegal fishing.
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willardguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6451
Registered: 9-19-2009
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assassinated for reporting illegal fishing??  considering you'll find totoaba
in many a gringo deep freezer (clearly marked WSB) I would be surprised! but you never know........
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
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Mood: Mad as hell
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 |
Joe,
It was a boat burglary that escalated into homicidal armed robbery,... and the only lesson here is: don’t mess with robbers, they may either
tweeking or unhinged violent psycopaths.
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Goat, not according to award winning "Zeta Magazine," that has inside contacts with the Mexican state police, and they say it was probably El Tekolin,
who sent a couple of boys, assassins to Ray and Jo's place, to shut them up for reporting illegal fishing of the endangered fish, the Totoaba.
Zeta said, the first theory about a boat robbery was all wrong, and really it's the theory "Baja Nomad' members always go to, claiming it was a meth
junkie high on meth.
Personally, I don't know which story is correct, and maybe a little of both.
I also think a few "Baja Nomad' members know a little bit more about this, but as long as El Tekolin's boys, are still out there, they aren't going to
say anything.
I was hoping for Gnukid, was going to come here and insist American ex-pats in the Bay of LA, and elsewhere step up, and speak out like he always
wants Mexicans to do.
BTW Gnukid, and a few other alarmists types, are using the almost release of El Tekolin, in Mexico city, as proof of blatant examples of corruption
at all levels of the judicial system.
Mexico, may be corrupt just like the US, but this example, showed that Mexico values it's Mexican constitution, and only after 12 hours of internal
debate, were they going to set El Tekolin, free, because it wasn't a proper arrest, and the state police exceeded their authority, when they busted in
a house without warrant, slapped the alleged suspects around, and then lied about where the arrest was actually made.
Later the Mexican authorities went back, found the arrest warrant on El Tekolin, and will be shipping his to Baja, for the murder of the Mexican
military person. So really I find nothing wrong with the arrest, and even the bad guys have rights too.
Goat, you know I'm always fascinated by unhinged psychopaths, so I don't mind messing with them.
[Edited on 9-23-2018 by JoeJustJoe]
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Alm
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2716
Registered: 5-10-2011
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This is like saying "simple drug traffickers". These guys were totoaba traffickers. It's called an Aquatic Cocaine for a reason. Bladders go for
$5,000 a piece in the US and $20,000 in China.
[Edited on 9-23-2018 by Alm]
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
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Mood: Mad as hell
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| Quote: Originally posted by Alm |
This is like saying "simple drug traffickers". These guys were totoaba traffickers. It's called an Aquatic Cocaine for a reason. Bladders go for
$5,000 a piece in the US and $20,000 in China.
[Edited on 9-23-2018 by Alm] |
Alm, you're confusing the issues.
There are two theories here.
1. The murders were done by unknown boat thieves, and if you listen to "Baja Nomad" members, the boat thieves were meth addicts.
2. The murders were done by assassins working for Parra Aispuro, because Ray, and Jo, snitched about the illegal fishing of the Totaba.
What I'm saying if it was number #1, and just a simple boat theft, Boat thieves usually do not carry armed weapons, and murder people over a moderate
expensive boat.
If you read the article, it says the first investigation was wrong, which means the theory about a simple boat robbery was wrong.
___________________________________
From the article:
in relation to the murder of the Americans Ray Ball, 72 years old and Jo Anne Butler, 69, despite the fact that the first investigations
indicate that it was a robbery, information gathered by ZETA could link hired assassins close to Parra Aispuro, after the Americans tried to warn
about the illegal fishing of totoaba in the area.
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Venturing into the Unknown
Rule #1:
IF you haven't got a gun, comfortable with using same and some idea of what you're walking into, it's NEVER a good idea to engage.
And, even then, things might go wrong.
I had a friend once who was heading down to Scammons Lagoon to watch Whales. He had a problem with his Dodge Diesel that delayed his
departure from Hemet. Driving until he couldn't keep going, he pulled off the road and (along with his wife and kid) crawled into the camper to
sleep. In the early a.m., he was awakened by his Dodge side windows being broken. He jumped (barefoot) out of his truck to confront the robbers and
was LUCKY to immediately cut hell out of his feet on the broken glass while the pair ran off with their booty.
Relating the tale to me, I asked (after noting that it was pretty dumb to sleep by the roadside) "It's a good thing that you were barefoot. W-T-F did
you think that you were going to do ?"
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Alm
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2716
Registered: 5-10-2011
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It's you who is confused, JJJ. Happens sometimes when people are trying to make conclusions based on nothing.
Here is theory #3, to give food for (useless) brain work:
The murders were done by the crew working for Parraa Aispurro. You may subdivide this into 3a: They needed a boat for their $$$ business and killed
when met a resistance, and 3b: They were ordered to execute those two gringos and then tried to take a boat as a bonus.
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
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Mood: Mad as hell
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| Quote: Originally posted by Alm | It's you who is confused, JJJ. Happens sometimes when people are trying to make conclusions based on nothing.
Here is theory #3, to give food for (useless) brain work:
The murders were done by the crew working for Parraa Aispurro. You may subdivide this into 3a: They needed a boat for their $$$ business and killed
when met a resistance, and 3b: They were ordered to execute those two gringos and then tried to take a boat as a bonus. |
Alm, do you have a link that will support your theory?
I didn't think so.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4410
Registered: 7-2-2006
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Means,_motive,_and_opportunity
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