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John M
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Mexican - American War for the serious collector
Any serious students of the Mexican - American War?
There is a rare book auction currently happening with a nice collection of related books and documents
I'm only to page 3, there may be more at this PBA auction site (starting with item 214) - additionally beginning with item 615....
https://www.pbagalleries.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/456/?p...
John M
[Edited on 8-22-2018 by John M]
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David K
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Very cool find John.
One of the items was this 1846 map...
Upper or New California and Old California, provinces of Mexico before or the same year the war started.
In Baja (Old) California, many of the missions are shown, plus Santa Isabel!:
Santa Isabel was a waterhole noted on the Jesuit's 1757 map (just a little north of Gonzaga Bay) and has been the focus of searches for the Lost
Mission of Santa Isabel.
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MrBillM
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The GOOD War
It worked out well.
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David K
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From John M
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AKgringo
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Interesting poster! Musicians were essential to the campaign?
I suppose drums were necessary to conduct a proper march, and who would charge an enemy without a bugle call?
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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daveB
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My great Uncle, died in Mexico City in 1848. Some 15 thousand Marines died in that area, mostly from sickness, poor sanitation and food preparation
the culprits, after landing at Vera Cruz. There is an American cemetery in DF.
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daveB
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A book written by Dwight D. Esinhower's (sic) son, is a good one. He writes that it was a war that should never have happened, president Grant said
much the same, later. In fact, some said the Civil War would never have happened without the Mexican - American War.
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Skipjack Joe
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daveB
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Nice Poster. I wonder if this had spurred on my great, great Uncle to sign up, leaving a wife and two daughters, I think. He was my Great Grandfather
Timothy Davis' older brother, they, from a family of twelve, two older who stayed in Ohio and ten in Illinois. He cashed in before he could cash out.
His letters home appear in a book entitled "They Saw America Born" available to read on line. You could Google it.
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jbcoug
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The offer in that poster sounds better than the one I got from Uncle Sam. But it all worked out in the end.
[Edited on 8-24-2018 by jbcoug]
\"The average dog is a nicer person than the average person.\" Andy Rooney
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jbcoug
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The offer in that poster sounds better than the one I got from Uncle Sam. But it all worked out n the end.
\"The average dog is a nicer person than the average person.\" Andy Rooney
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JoeJustJoe
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I don't know how rare those book are, but for sure they are overpriced and maybe really have any valve to a place like a museum.
And looking over the titles of the books quickly, I only saw one book dealing with the US stealing a huge chunk of Mexico's land, and no signing a
contract under duress or with a gun to your head, is never a valid contract.
How the land used to look before manifest destiny, and the mistaken belief God told American settlers to expand westward.
[Edited on 8-24-2018 by JoeJustJoe]
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chippy
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Gee jjj I had no idea Mexicos southern border ended at about 21.5° N. back then. Thanks for that.
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David K
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Most of the area your map calls 'Mexican Republic' was Spanish-claimed territory, as no other world power had claimed it yet. In 1769, Spain advanced
north of the California Peninsula in part because it was feared Russia or England (pre-U.S.) would claim that land.
Mexico achieved independence from Spain in 1821 and California Spanish officials learned of and accepted Mexico's victory in 1822. So Mexico
automatically got the Californias simply because they were Spanish territory.
Mexico (nor Spain before) had the population or ability to very well occupy, protect, or defend the vast territory northwest of Mexico City.
Obviously, the United States proved itself far more able to occupy and develop the land. At the end of the short Mexican War, our troops had occupied
all of Mexico and were at the capital. In essence, all of Mexico could have become part of the United States. Not desirous of such a new burden,
America wisely limited its acquisition to Alta California, which it did pay Mexico for. Mexico has benefitted ever since by have such a wealthy
neighbor.
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JoeJustJoe
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I did not make the map, and perhaps they meant to show the relevant parts of the old world, that had to do with Mexico land theft, and left out the
Oregon Territory, and made no reference to Spain, because Mexico, doesn't have a dispute with Spain over land, and no exact date was reference in
the map I put up.
And I happen to like the map.
[Edited on 8-24-2018 by JoeJustJoe]
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MrBillM
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Manifestly GREAT
Thank God for Manifest Destiny. Which spurred incredible social and technological progress and created the
GREATEST nation on earth
Look at Mexico even now and just imagine what things could have looked like in the Western states if the land had remained a part of THAT mess.
It's ironic that so many gringo visitors, tourists, residents and expatriates who complain about their own country LOVE Mexico
because it was so backward and development came so much later. THAT "foot-dragging" progress made available less-developed
lands and beaches at an affordable cost.
Don't knock it. We ALL benefited from that war.
Having been Made in the USA beats Hell out of Hecho en Mexico.
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JoeJustJoe
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Quote: Originally posted by David K  | Most of the area your map calls 'Mexican Republic' was Spanish-claimed territory, as no other world power had claimed it yet. In 1769, Spain advanced
north of the California Peninsula in part because it was feared Russia or England (pre-U.S.) would claim that land.
Mexico achieved independence from Spain in 1821 and California Spanish officials learned of and accepted Mexico's victory in 1822. So Mexico
automatically got the Californias simply because they were Spanish territory.
Mexico (nor Spain before) had the population or ability to very well occupy, protect, or defend the vast territory northwest of Mexico City.
Obviously, the United States proved itself far more able to occupy and develop the land. At the end of the short Mexican War, our troops had occupied
all of Mexico and were at the capital. In essence, all of Mexico could have become part of the United States. Not desirous of such a new burden,
America wisely limited its acquisition to Alta California, which it did pay Mexico for. Mexico has benefitted ever since by have such a wealthy
neighbor. |
David K, I'm surprised you didn't show an accurate map, from the 1850, showing where and when Spain owned most of Mexico, and off hand, I can't find
any, and most maps I see from that time period, just list the land as Mexico, although Spain, did also steal Mexico land, before Mexico took it back.
Maybe, it's just me, but it's almost as you're implying Mexico, never deserved the land of California, and Mexico, is lucky the US, allowed Mexico to
keep most of the land it didn't steal in Mexico.
[Edited on 8-24-2018 by JoeJustJoe]
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David K
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Joe, in 1850 it was no longer Spain... see my post for the years of Mexico's victory and California's recognition. I posted a map from 1846, above.
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MrBillM
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To the Victor goes the Spoils
And we left them what was too spoiled.
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JoeJustJoe
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | Joe, in 1850 it was no longer Spain... see my post for the years of Mexico's victory and California's recognition. I posted a map from 1846, above.
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David K. I'm well aware of the history of the US and Mexico, my question to you was there ever a map showing Spain instead of Mexico, when Spain
occupied Mexico or parts of Mexico?
You know like old maps of the Roman empire when they conquered much of Europe.
I ask because you seemed critical of the map I put up, like I was supposed to put up a map of New Spain in Mexico, when I don't ever recall such a map
when studying history.
I see many one map with a Google search, calling Mexico, the Spanish empire, and New Spain, but as far as I know, it was not common practice to put up
maps of Spain in Mexico, when Spain occupied Mexico.
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