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Author: Subject: Gasoline Shortage in Mexico
David K
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[*] posted on 1-21-2019 at 03:24 PM


Corn should be grown to feed people and animals and not to satisfy some political goal. Since ethanol LOWERS fuel mileage, how does burning more fuel become a better thing? In Bizzaro world maybe?



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[*] posted on 1-21-2019 at 03:30 PM


Quote: Originally posted by thebajarunner  

Jay Leno wrote a blistering op/ed piece last year in Autoweek about the ravages of ethanol on older engines.t.


Is this leno guy a mechanical engineer? :?:

Older engines are polluters. Nothing wrong with their demise, some might say their disappearance from use is good for our air :light:




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[*] posted on 1-21-2019 at 03:33 PM


Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Corn should be grown to feed people and animals and not to satisfy some political goal. Since ethanol LOWERS fuel mileage, how does burning more fuel become a better thing? In Bizzaro world maybe?


If you cared about conservation, you would be for mandatory fuel economy improvements!

Cleaner air is better than minor efficiency decrease!




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[*] posted on 1-21-2019 at 03:54 PM


Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Corn should be grown to feed people and animals and not to satisfy some political goal.


Not to mention the federal corn subsidies and the cost of producing ethanol being a net loss. I read an article years ago that sugar cane is about 8 times more efficient at making ethanol than corn. I believe that is why we restrict Brazilian (sugar cane) ethanol imports. To "support" our farmers, err, agribusiness corporations. High fructose corn syrup, ethanol, etc.

Sugar cane is also very easy to grow, I wonder why we don't use more for ethanol, since we subsidize the sugar industry as well. Who knows. Politics for sure, David.

Here's a comparison, notice the reduction in gh gases, less acreage, etc., with sugar cane ethanol. Closing remarks sum it up well.
http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2010/ph240/luk1/

John



[Edited on 1-21-2019 by John Harper]
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[*] posted on 1-21-2019 at 04:21 PM


Sugar cane is easy to grow? Hmmmmm?



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[*] posted on 1-21-2019 at 04:23 PM


Quote: Originally posted by chuckie  
Sugar cane is easy to grow? Hmmmmm?


I believe I read that as well, yes. Of course, it may be water intensive to some extent, I do not know. Considering it was an early crop for plantations, I assume it must have been a fairly hardy crop. I have heard that working in the sugar cane fields was the worst job of all. Razor sharp leaves. I think I saw a short documentary on TV not too long ago about the sugar cane plantations. Ugly.

John

[Edited on 1-21-2019 by John Harper]
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[*] posted on 1-21-2019 at 04:31 PM


You might want to do a little more research on US Sugar production...



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[*] posted on 1-21-2019 at 04:35 PM


daddy chopped that sugar cane and one day he fell dead...
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[*] posted on 1-21-2019 at 04:37 PM


Quote: Originally posted by chuckie  
You might want to do a little more research on US Sugar production...


Perhaps. I do know that beet sugar is involved in the US, probably more than cane sugar, not really into a debate about it. I really don't use the stuff, myself.

John
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[*] posted on 1-21-2019 at 04:40 PM


"While the overall impacts on climate remain uncertain, there is no clear evidence that ethanol is part of the solution rather than the problem. If anything, a ranking of nine energy sources in relation to global climate found that cellulosic and corn-based ethanol (E85) were ranked last of nine technologies with respect to climate, air pollution, land use, wildlife damage, and chemical waste"

https://e360.yale.edu/features/the_case_against_ethanol_bad_...




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[*] posted on 1-21-2019 at 04:41 PM


Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Corn should be grown to feed people and animals and not to satisfy some political goal. Since ethanol LOWERS fuel mileage, how does burning more fuel become a better thing? In Bizzaro world maybe?


If you cared about conservation, you would be for mandatory fuel economy improvements!

Cleaner air is better than minor efficiency decrease!


It's more than minor


https://e360.yale.edu/features/the_case_against_ethanol_bad_...




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[*] posted on 1-23-2019 at 03:52 PM


Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM  
Read about this in the L.A. Times Sunday. Filling Jerry Cans from a 20-foot geyser while getting soaked seems a bit hazardous. One spark and everybody goes boom:

[https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mexico-fuel-theft-casualties/mexico-pipeline-explosion-killed-89-pemex-defends-response-idUSKCN1PF1EC]


Have to be nuts getting anywhere close to that pipeline.
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[*] posted on 1-23-2019 at 04:46 PM


Quote: Originally posted by willardguy  
daddy chopped that sugar cane and one day he fell dead...

Havana Day Dreaming :biggrin:
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[*] posted on 1-23-2019 at 04:54 PM


https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2019-01-22/death-...

After seeing the news of nearly 100 people that were killed in an explosion while they were tapping into the pipeline in central Mexico, I just read that the gov't has purchased over 500 tanker trucks to distribute the fuel. Those trucks will have armed soldiers on board to protect the loads.
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David K
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[*] posted on 1-23-2019 at 04:57 PM


Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali  
Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Corn should be grown to feed people and animals and not to satisfy some political goal. Since ethanol LOWERS fuel mileage, how does burning more fuel become a better thing? In Bizzaro world maybe?


If you cared about conservation, you would be for mandatory fuel economy improvements!

Cleaner air is better than minor efficiency decrease!


It's more than minor


https://e360.yale.edu/features/the_case_against_ethanol_bad_...


Great article... thanks.




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[*] posted on 1-23-2019 at 08:17 PM


Fuel bandits standing knee-deep...

50340631_1899748840150686_2465829488722706432_n (285x380).jpg - 132kB
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[*] posted on 1-23-2019 at 08:22 PM


Maybe this will help - kinda doubt it but there's always hope!

"Octane ratings are not indicators of the energy content of fuels. (See Effects below and Heat of combustion). They are only a measure of the fuel's tendency to burn in a controlled manner, rather than exploding in an uncontrolled manner.[3] Where the octane number is raised by blending in ethanol, energy content per volume is reduced. Ethanol BTUs can be compared with gasoline BTUs in heat of combustion tables."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
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[*] posted on 1-24-2019 at 05:01 PM
Knock Knock ?


OK, moving on from knocking Ethanol, the question IS .................

Given that LEAD and MTBE are out, WHAT cost-effective and environmentally-acceptable alternative would be preferable for producing gasoline in the required octanes ?
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[*] posted on 1-25-2019 at 08:24 AM


Mexico latest solution is a proposal to obtain hundreds of US sourced fuel trucks. I guess they would turn off the pipeline flow and just the trucks for supply? Major issue is bureaucracy approval os such a scheme. No ethanol in Mexico which is a good thing, IMO.
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[*] posted on 1-25-2019 at 12:13 PM


Quote: Originally posted by PaulW  
Mexico latest solution is a proposal to obtain hundreds of US sourced fuel trucks. I guess they would turn off the pipeline flow and just the trucks for supply? Major issue is bureaucracy approval os such a scheme. No ethanol in Mexico which is a good thing, IMO.


Truck hijackings have already begun, though. Full, of course, not empty.



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