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MrBillM
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History has Repeatedly Shown .....................
That the commercial harvesters of ANY resource are NOT to be trusted with maintaining the continued health of said resource. Absent
controls, in self-interest, they will harvest to extinction.
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caj13
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The whole "just making a living" thing doesn't fly, they are getting paid 2K per month by the Mexican gov to not fish. (the gov says 3.5 K, the
fishermen say about 2 K), either way, not a bad way to make a living in San felipe, don't go fishing, save the fuel, wear and tear and equipment
costs, go pick up your check!
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lewmt
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Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM  | | That the commercial harvesters of ANY resource are NOT to be trusted with maintaining the continued health of said resource. Absent
controls, in self-interest, they will harvest to extinction. |
Crock of S. Look at the coop in Bahia Asuncion or La Bocana & they have figured out an excellent balance of harvest & income. Here in my area
of the US commercial harvest of timber was once overdone but time & resource education has taught that a well managed resource can be commercially
viable as well as healthier overall for that resource. Where the do-gooders have stopped all commercial logging the worst fires and least healthy
forests live.
Its really sad that there is such a bounty on such a precious resource as the totuaba. The predators really are the Asians who would pay such a
ridiculous premium for them. The answer lies somewhere in better education of all parties & continued enforcement. Thanks to the Sea Shepherd
for being there
[Edited on 2-5-2019 by lewmt]
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thebajarunner
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Excellent point
| Quote: Originally posted by lewmt | | Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM | | That the commercial harvesters of ANY resource are NOT to be trusted with maintaining the continued health of said resource. Absent
controls, in self-interest, they will harvest to extinction. |
Crock of S. Look at the coop in Bahia Asuncion or La Bocana & they have figured out an excellent balance of harvest & income. Here in my area
of the US commercial harvest of timber was once overdone but time & resource education has taught that a well managed resource can be commercially
viable as well as healthier overall for that resource. Where the do-gooders have stopped all commercial logging the worst fires and least healthy
forests live.
Its really sad that there is such a bounty on such a precious resource as the totuaba. The predators really are the Asians who would pay such a
ridiculous premium for them. The answer lies somewhere in better education of all parties & continued enforcement. Thanks to the Sea Shepherd
for being there
[Edited on 2-5-2019 by lewmt] |
Last summer we camped up on the bluffs at Punta Falsa.
The "Security Patrol" guy came by several times in the night, and he was not there for our security.
No..... those folks up there are protecting their precious abalone.
Good for them,
Shame shame shame on the greedy dudes on the Sea of Cortez!!
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MrBillM
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Yeah, Sure, OK
" ............ Here in my area of the US commercial harvest of timber was once overdone but time & resource education has taught that a well
managed resource can be commercially viable as well as healthier overall for that resource ..........."
Not to mention Government regulation.
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joerover
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=123&v=IsA9pa...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTMnwr63LIM
Who wants to find the old link about the pangas being burned in San Felipe?
Was that ospreys story?
[Edited on 2-6-2019 by joerover]
the fat lady is breeding
which means
The fat ladys are breeding
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bajadogs
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | Wow!
So the Sea Shepard is now doing to these fishermen the same thing the Japanese whaling boats were doing to the Sea Shepards?
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Señor David,
It is spelled "Sea Shepherd". How do you compare Japanese whalers to Sea Shepherd? How CAN you? The tactics? Do you have a clue what
they (Japanese whalers and Sea Shepherd) are doing? Do you know the law? Do you know why there are laws? Do you think there should be no laws or
limits or enforcement or consequences? Sorry for all the questions, I don't get your point. Politically motivated I assume.
Oh - EDIT : These are not fishermen, they are poachers. Rock and molotov c-cktail throwing poachers.
[Edited on 2-6-2019 by bajadogs]
[Edited on 2-6-2019 by bajadogs]
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David K
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The thread spells it "Sea Sheppard" so that's two wrongs!
I was only commenting on the use of water cannons.
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motoged
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David,
Try to answer his questions, please. They are relevant to the conversation.
Don't believe everything you think....
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David K
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I did:
"I was only commenting on the use of water cannons."
No politics, just what is obviously seen.
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caj13
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yup, so a soldier defending his country using his gun is the same thing as a murderer using a gun to kill his victim, at least according to David!
[Edited on 2-6-2019 by caj13]
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Lee
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Water cannons not OK against poachers? I think rubber bullets are in order.
Everything is politically driven with DK. Unfortunate.
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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David K
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Did I say it was ok or not ok? NO.
I only mentioned that Sea Sheppard/ Shepard/ Shepherd (lol) were using the SAME methods as had been used upon them.
That's all!
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Tomas Tierra
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| Quote: Originally posted by Don Jorge | Sea Shepard appears to be a de facto mercenary.
Lost is the simple fact that fresh water flows from Mexico's northern neighbor via the Colorado River are practically nil. This has had a profound
effect on the ecology of the northern Sea of Cortez. Some would argue or hypothesize that this lack of fresh water is the real problem in the
northern Sea of Cortez, not poaching.
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THIS!
I was ripped to shreds and called every name in the book for merely suggesting this in a common sense manner on the FB Baja Site..
Has to be PART of the problem
TT
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bajadogs
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| Quote: Originally posted by caj13 | yup, so a soldier defending his country using his gun is the same thing as a murderer using a gun to kill his victim, at least according to David!
[Edited on 2-6-2019 by caj13] |
Or like opining on a firefighter forum with an observation that they fought the fires in Paradise City using the same tactics putting out fires as the
state troopers in Mississippi on civil rights activists in the 60's. They are so similar right?
David, Do you understand why your comment seems political?Can you please give us your opinion on Sea Shepherd? My next donation to SS will be in your
name. BTW - if this goes OFF-TOPIC or is deleted, it is because of you, not me. This IS Baja related.
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joerover
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Illegal fishing remains a serious threat to the vaquita
https://porpoise.org/2016/07/hope-vaquita-mexico-bans-gill-n...
Mexico’s latest step, which also includes a ban on night fishing in the Sea of Cortez, is a huge success for conservationists. But it will likely
not be enough on its own to guarantee the vaquita’s recovery. Illegal fishing for a large species of fish, the totoaba, remains a threat to the
vaquita’s survival and is believed to be responsible for its decline in recent years. The totoaba is sought after for its swim bladder to satisfy a
high demand in Asia, where it is believed to have medicinal properties. The high street value of $10,000 or more per kilogram has encouraged poachers
in Mexico to ignore the risk of getting caught. This is not likely to change, unless serious enforcement measures are taken.
Davisk distracted you with weather nonfacts so he could fish at night
the fat lady is breeding
which means
The fat ladys are breeding
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joerover
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Osprey the one and only good typist on bajanomad,
Where is he know'
| Quote: Originally posted by Osprey | Espiritu Del Mar
It started in the Northern Gulf, up near San Felipe but it took a while for people to wake up to that. Lots of news over the years in San Diego papers
and border town Mexican papers about the plight of the Vaquita, the overfishing that wiped out the shrimp and the fortunes being made in selling parts
of the Totuava. When the U.S. began to pay the Mexican fishermen not to fish in the Northern Gulf, all the papers were quiet about how much was paid
and even quieter when the fishermen took the money, went back to fishing anyway and with a last gasp kind of urgency.
The whole thing got back in the news big time when somebody burned 22 small fishing boats on the beach near San Felipe. They caught a little Mexican
guy in a broke down pickup who had a lot of empty gas cans in his truck. In the lockup they couldn�t get much out of him even with the Mexican
version of water boarding. He kept saying he didn�t hatch the plan, had no idea why he was there, knew nothing about the fishing, the fishermen,
their boats.
He didn�t have any money on him, nobody in the area knew him and he was very vague about where he lived, what he did for a living; he was drug and
alcohol free, his truck was registered in Sonoyta. They put him in jail in Mexicali and that was the end of that. There was a small article in La
Jornada at the time reporting the inmates caused a near riot to get him away from them because they claimed he was endemoniado, possessed.
There were the usual rumblings but no protests when five new longliner permits were granted and Korean factory ships began a vigorous interception of
commercial and other food fish that travel up, down and around the mid gulf as bait migrates with the currents. Then all the papers lit up when one of
the big ships was disabled and had to be towed to Guaymas. A CONAPESCA team found tons of illegal catch aboard and among those detained was Angel Cota
Garcia who the crew blamed for the serious problem with the running gear. He was drug free but seemed to be in some kind of trance and was totally
uncommunicative.
Their investigation indicated he could not have been involved with the San Felipe fires because he was in jail at the time in Mexicali. Quite by
accident they found he was there when the San Felipe arsonist was arrested and incarcerated.
Now the Mexican patented mystery rumors began to fly but I didn�t learn of it until much later --- with my kids and grandkids scattered all over
Colorado and Idaho, my wife Helen�s health problems and ongoing projects around this old place, I was too busy to keep up with much Mexican or U.S.
news. Somewhere along the line, as each crime occurred against those who farm the sea, a mystery character evolved --- sinister like the Chupacabra
yet heaven sent like a vengeful rectifier.
The rumor, the national superhero of the day became Espiritu del Mar, the Sea Ghost, who randomly entered the minds and bodies of innocent Mexicans to
use them as tools to save, restore and return the treasures of the sea which Mexico had so wantonly sold or wasted.
Some seiners moved from mid waters south to avoid any more trouble but when they began to appear in small armadas around Mulege, Loreto, La Paz,
locals took to the streets. What a wonderful circus for the press! Kids and adults in ghostly bedsheets chanted and moaned, brandished paper knives
and bloody hammers; they moved with a clumsy kind of derangement and posed with abandon for the hungry cameras.
The papers, the TV, everywhere across Mexico and Latin America were alive with news and accounts and videos of the small but colorful mobs of faceless
people in protest of things they hardly knew about but sorely wanted to demonstrate against.
The Ghost was pleased. Just below Ensenada someone cut through several tuna pens, releasing uncountable farmed tuna and escaped without notice. Three
restaurants in La Paz that made a major market in marlin and dorado were torched --- some say police were not all that interested in the
investigations or the hunt for those responsible.
Police in Nayarit found two men dead on the beach with several big bags of turtle eggs. They were not beheaded, they were dismembered, their hands
were in the bag with the eggs.
The news, the movement, resonated far from Mexico and its waters. Through Central and South America where natural resources and uncountable treasures
are being squandered and sold at unsustainable rates The Spirit moved the people to be involved in guerrilla kinds of actions in the jungles and in
the halls of congress.
The irony escaped no one; that The Spirit was invisible, amorphous, like the ever changing cabals arranging permits to change giant hardwoods to paper
and plankton to cat food.
I don�t know where this particular spirit will die but we live in a Pushme-Pullyou world where things don�t really flow but go forward or backward
in fits and starts. Very hard to keep track. I would like to think that The Spirit will stay alive and do more good than harm. This part of the planet
is in a war of attrition and if this is a skirmish, I only hope there are more of them. It would be great to think my sons could watch the grandkids
catch a tuna or take a run up the Orinoco to see a parrot.
I had better stop thinking those kinds of thoughts --- might be cause for The Spirit to pay me a visit and cast a spell I can�t ward off with a
couple of my famous Amnesiaritas.
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=81887#pid1020...
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[Edited on 2-7-2019 by joerover]
[Edited on 2-7-2019 by joerover]
the fat lady is breeding
which means
The fat ladys are breeding
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David K
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No bajadogs, I do not see anything political with my observation that Sea Shephards are using water cannons... as did the Japanese against them. Two
wrongs don't make it right, does it? Or, are you saying that water cannons were okay then and are okay now?
I would love to be a Sea Shephard, live off of Hollywood money, zip around in a Zodiac, and save the whales or the dolphins or whatever makes the
money flow to make it all possible!
How come their TV show is no longer on the air?
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John Harper
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K |
I would love to be a Sea Shepherd, live off of Hollywood money, zip around in a Zodiac, and save the whales or the dolphins or whatever makes the
money flow to make it all possible! |
As I recall, most the missions were crumbling and being lost to time until concerned Californians rallied to save them. Was that a "frivolous" effort
like saving the whales, totuava, or vaquitas?
"The popularity of the missions also stemmed largely from Helen Hunt Jackson's 1884 novel Ramona and the subsequent efforts of
Charles Fletcher Lummis, William Randolph Hearst, and other members of the "Landmarks Club of Southern California" to restore three of the southern
missions in the early 20th century."(San Juan Capistrano, San Diego de Alcalá, and San Fernando; the Pala Asistencia was also restored by
this effort).
Lummis wrote in 1895:
"In ten years from now—unless our intelligence shall awaken at once—there will remain of these noble piles nothing but a few
indeterminable heaps of adobe. We shall deserve and shall have the contempt of all thoughtful people if we suffer our noble missions to
fall."
In acknowledgement of the magnitude of the restoration efforts required and the urgent need to have acted quickly to prevent further or even total
degradation, Lummis went on to state:
"It is no exaggeration to say that human power could not have restored these four missions had there been a five-year delay in the
attempt."
Hmm, like the vaquita, totuava, and whales?
Source: Wikipedia
John
[Edited on 2-7-2019 by John Harper]
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | No bajadogs, I do not see anything political with my observation that Sea Shephards are using water cannons... as did the Japanese against them. Two
wrongs don't make it right, does it? Or, are you saying that water cannons were okay then and are okay now?
I would love to be a Sea Shephard, live off of Hollywood money, zip around in a Zodiac, and save the whales or the dolphins or whatever makes the
money flow to make it all possible!
How come their TV show is no longer on the air? |
I think sea shepard is morally right to use water cannons or 50 cal. ammo on the attacking poachers. I think the Mexican military should use air to
surface missiles to take out the poachers. A couple missiles taking out pangas would do wonders to discouraging the poachers.
The Japanese whale slaughterers were (still are) morally wrong, and should be condemned for their whaling and their response to whaling protesters who
had moral authority. If sea Shepard launches rockets at the whalers and sinks/kills them, I would be ok with that. No excuse justifies whaling in
the 21st century.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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