| Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6 |
bajaric
Senior Nomad
Posts: 604
Registered: 2-2-2015
Member Is Offline
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by lewmt  | "So, really the heart of the Green New Deal is about social justice.”
Quoted from A. O. Cortez. The new brain child of the left & the heart of why I totally distrust the politics of "Climate Science".
|
Everyone has an agenda. I have not studied the issue of climate change enough to have a solid opinion, but I will say that a brief Wikipedia search
shows that, based on ice cores, the CO2 level in the atmosphere has spiked up several times over the last 400,000 years, reaching a high of about
where it is now, always followed by an ice age. I too, have wondered why fossilized sea life can be found far above sea level. It is not because the
sea has fallen, it is because the land has been uplifted. Imagine how old the earth must be for a fossilized sea shell to end up on top of a
mountain, and all that time the sun pouring out its solar radiation and the sea has always existed. This in the face of asteroid impacts, volcanic
eruptions, and the like; who can say with certainty that the burning of fossil fuels can tilt the balance of this equilibrium that has existed for
eons.
Beyond the issue of the "scientists" grubbing for research grants funded by people who might have an agenda, there is the issue of the effect the
internet has had on popular opinion. The internet has caused ideas that would be considered the ravings of a lunatic to come in to mainstream
thinking. 30 years ago I do not recall anyone claiming that the earth was flat, now there is a group of people that embrace that idea; an
internet-fueled exercise in idiotic group think, along with the notion that jet contrails are a nefarious plot, etc etc. So, call me a climate change
skeptic.
Regarding the federal deficit, an economist who's name escapes me pointed out that when the government spends more than it takes in and prints money
(bonds) to make up the difference the best strategy is to hold non-cash hard assets; e.g. apartment buildings, cropland, timber, and such, that will
still have value when the dollar is worth nothing. Society has already begun to devolve back into the feudal system of landlords and serfs, with the
first holding all the assets, and the second enslaved in a life of grinding poverty, living on the dole. have a nice day!
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64490
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by caj13 | | Quote: Originally posted by LancairDriver | | I had previously asked for our nomad climate experts opinion as to the example of why DK’s palm tree remains high and dry after all these years in
the face of rising sea levels with pictorial documentation to back up the example. So far neither The NY Times or any other source used by the nomad
climate experts has explained this. The usual playground responses invariably follow in lieu of an intelligent argument requiring any personal opinion
that could possibly expose an obvious lack of firsthand knowledge. And so, my simple original question remains. Why no perceptible rise in sea level
in respect to DK’s well documented palm tree example? |
I'm Glad you brought that up: so lets take a look at the magic palm tree photos
David, could you please provide us the exact date and time of when each of those comparative photos were taken. I hate to bring it up, but you know
v- tides, all that kind of thing, would have an effect on this - no? so in order to have a valid comparison, we need to know those data so we can
determine tides.
I'm sure you understand, as you recognize some unscroupulous person would take a photo at high tide, then compare it to a photo at low tide, and
say it proved sea level changes!
and while we are at it, anyone have any data from that location on sand deposition, etc? |
The Playa El Coyote Palm Tree is at the top of the sloping beach. Behind that beach is a large flat area. During extreme lunar tides that flat area
can get wet but average high tides don't go higher than the sloping part of the beach. Photos taken at lower tides would simply show more of that
sloping beach. The palm tree remains in the same place despite where the edge of the water is during the photo.
My point is that if the sea was any higher than it was in the 1940s (when the photos of the palm began showing up in books) or 50s, 60s, 70s, etc.
that palm would not only be in water more often than just the extreme tides. That flat area between the palm and the mountain would be a lagoon or
bay.... with only a foot or two increase in sea level.
Some say the science says it is about a cigarette length higher after 100 years... wow. The daily tide changes several feet up and down, so a
cigarette increase not only must fall into the +/- margin of error, but it is laughable to get all worked up over. Plus, you can't change it if it was
rising as that is a Natural event. I can show you fossil sea shells many hundred feet above sea level and many miles inland from the ocean, so this is
not some unnatural event caused by men driving pickup trucks.
Now, do I need to post those photos again (and I have provided the year of the photo or the year the book was published)?
1952 photo by Howard Gulick
1953 photo by Howard Gulick
In 1971:
In the 2000's:
2009
2012
In February, 2017:
==================================================================
Now, here's a photo I took in 1987... Gonzaga Bay... that's my 4WD Subaru down there and I am hiking up the trail on the island in front of
Alfonsina's. You can still walk onto the island at low tide. You can still land on Alfonsina's runway (except at the highest tides, as it always has
been since about 1959 when that campo was just getting started). That runway would be underwater at every high tide if the sea had risen even a few
inches... on and on are examples. Do we talk about the home I lived in when I was born (1957) to age 7? It is on the beach in Del Mar, and the street
and homes there are still not anywhere near being underwater.
|
|
|
John Harper
Super Nomad
Posts: 2289
Registered: 3-9-2017
Location: SoCal
Member Is Offline
|
|
Not true. Our planet was a hot, volcanic lump of rock for many millions of years, and oceans could not form until the temperatures were below 212
Fahrenheit.
John
[Edited on 2-7-2019 by John Harper]
|
|
|
JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad as hell
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by LancairDriver | | It has been very amusing following this topic for months now. So far the only arguments presented by the nomad climate expert set has been the usual
name calling, dissing others occupations, and any mocking or other tactic learned from their playground bullying days. Expert credentials include
citing reading of the NY Times, or WA Po, and citing the opinions of others who must be experts based on their degree. The lack of personal
observations and examples has been lacking. I had previously asked for our nomad climate experts opinion as to the example of why DK’s palm tree
remains high and dry after all these years in the face of rising sea levels with pictorial documentation to back up the example. So far neither The NY
Times or any other source used by the nomad climate experts has explained this. The usual playground responses invariably follow in lieu of an
intelligent argument requiring any personal opinion that could possibly expose an obvious lack of firsthand knowledge. And so, my simple original
question remains. Why no perceptible rise in sea level in respect to DK’s well documented palm tree example? |
Who are the expert(s) with climate science credentials, on Baja Nomad?
I will give 50 to 1 odds, on a bet if they could prove they are real climate scientists, and I would double the odds 100 to 1, if they happen to be
climate scientists, who denies global warming, and are not on some oil company's payroll.
Remember, on the internet you can claim anything, and members often claim all kinds of untrue things. One of the favorite tactics members use on
group sites to win an argument, is to claim some type of expert status, and they expect you to stand down once they make their claim of expertise
status.
Regarding David K. Palm tree, that's called anecdotal evidence, it's not done scientifically, and David K. is biased, leans to the right, and denies
global warming out of hand. So while I welcome David K. opinion, that's all it is an opinion and his personal observation looking through his lens.
There is also the fact that global warming is not happening at the same speed around the world, in the arctic, the effects of global warning are
happening at a very fast alarming pace.
|
|
|
bajaric
Senior Nomad
Posts: 604
Registered: 2-2-2015
Member Is Offline
|
|
Well, yeah, but that is going back to before there was a sea. Interesting trivia tidbit: all rocks started out as basalt.
|
|
|
BajaNaranja
Nomad
Posts: 148
Registered: 9-10-2006
Member Is Offline
|
|
|
|
|
John Harper
Super Nomad
Posts: 2289
Registered: 3-9-2017
Location: SoCal
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by bajaric | | Well, yeah, but that is going back to before there was a sea. Interesting trivia tidbit: all rocks started out as basalt. |
I've always marveled at the formation of stromatolites and how they boosted oxygen levels in our atmosphere. Natural "polluters" of the ancient
atmosphere. Without them, we would not even be here. But, many other organisms likely died off as O2 levels rose to what they are today. Now, we're
the modern equivalent with our massive CO2 emissions.
John
[Edited on 2-7-2019 by John Harper]
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64490
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
Exactly! The fact is the sea has not risen and that climate change cannot be stopped by humans... Nature is in charge. 
|
|
|
norte
Super Nomad
Posts: 1163
Registered: 10-8-2008
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by David K |
Exactly! The fact is the sea has not risen and that climate change cannot be stopped by humans... Nature is in charge. |
Almost everyone....even those that can't agree with the cause, agree the seas are rising David. I know you probably won't read this but here are
some factual readings. https://www.skepticalscience.com/sea-level-rise.htm
|
|
|
bajabuddha
Banned
Posts: 4024
Registered: 4-12-2013
Location: Baja New Mexico
Member Is Offline
Mood: Always cranky unless medicated
|
|
Can't recall who's sig. quote sez it, but.....
"Never argue with a fool... people may not be able to tell the difference"... or sumpin' of that sort. It's like the wall thing, basic trumpanzeeism,
the true owners of TDS.
Truer words have never been spoken. 
I don't have a BUCKET LIST, but I do have a F***- IT LIST a mile long!
86 - 45*
|
|
|
BajaBill74
Nomad
Posts: 253
Registered: 1-27-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: Beyond Extatic!
|
|
Here is a panoramic picture I took at Los Arcos in April of 1999. The left side is looking at the Sea of Cortez and the right side through the arch
is the Pacific Ocean. Two major bodies of water in the same picture.
The arch now looks like this.
Sorry there arn't any palm trees.
This is intended to be a humorous post. 
What I'm doing at work is so secret, even I don't know what I'm doing!
One should believe in God, because even Google doesn't know everything.
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64490
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
Yes, I love it...
and there was water under the arch in 1966 too...
I think the beach being there is a seasonal thing since the top of the arch is still the same height from the top of the water, sand or no sand (which
moves).
Thank you!
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64490
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
You can throw all the links to words in the world, but here is the evidence, the facts, the truth, the science... OBSERVE 64 years of sea level rise:
1952:
2016:
64 years...  
|
|
|
wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
|
|
2018 Was 4th Hottest Year on Record, NASA Finds
"The key message is that the planet is warming," Gavin Schmidt, the director of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York City, told
reporters at a news conference. "And our understanding of why those trends are occurring is also very robust. It's because of the greenhouse gases
that we['ve] put into the atmosphere over the last 100 years." [6 Unexpected Effects of Climate Change]"
https://www.livescience.com/64700-2018-heat-record.html
Would imagine heat has influence over the water cycle ... just saying 
|
|
|
BajaBill74
Nomad
Posts: 253
Registered: 1-27-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: Beyond Extatic!
|
|
Just saying.
What I'm doing at work is so secret, even I don't know what I'm doing!
One should believe in God, because even Google doesn't know everything.
|
|
|
wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
|
|
Five Pacific islands lost to rising seas as climate change hits
Perhaps the lack of sea level rise could be explained to these folks who were negatively impact by the rise of the sea level in their location ...
just saying 
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/may/10/five-pac...
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64490
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
BajaBill74, now that IS photographic evidence... well done!
wessongroup: Sea level is not the blame but erosion is... All islands eventually erode back into the sea and after reading the link, they even say it
is erosion (but add 'sea level rise' with that). Why they needed to add the other is obviously to fill the emotional need of some. The sea didn't just
rise at a few Soloman Islands and not anywhere else!
Corral atolls used to be bigger islands that eroded away.
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64490
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by wessongroup | "The key message is that the planet is warming," Gavin Schmidt, the director of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York City, told
reporters at a news conference. "And our understanding of why those trends are occurring is also very robust. It's because of the greenhouse gases
that we['ve] put into the atmosphere over the last 100 years." [6 Unexpected Effects of Climate Change]"
https://www.livescience.com/64700-2018-heat-record.html
Would imagine heat has influence over the water cycle ... just saying |
Or it is a very normal trend that keeps repeating the older earth gets...
What greenhouse gasses were the Vikings making in 1000 AD??? LOL
|
|
|
Cliffy
Senior Nomad
Posts: 984
Registered: 12-19-2013
Member Is Offline
|
|
Just so light bedtime reading
https://moneymaven.io/mishtalk/economics/amidst-global-warmi...
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/01/23/the-co2-derangement-s...
You chose your position in life today by what YOU did yesterday
|
|
|
JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad as hell
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | Quote: Originally posted by wessongroup | "The key message is that the planet is warming," Gavin Schmidt, the director of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York City, told
reporters at a news conference. "And our understanding of why those trends are occurring is also very robust. It's because of the greenhouse gases
that we['ve] put into the atmosphere over the last 100 years." [6 Unexpected Effects of Climate Change]"
https://www.livescience.com/64700-2018-heat-record.html
Would imagine heat has influence over the water cycle ... just saying |
Or it is a very normal trend that keeps repeating the older earth gets...
What greenhouse gasses were the Vikings making in 1000 AD??? LOL |
The denier medieval warm period argument also does not stand up to scrutiny, although they may have been a slight warm period on some parts of Earth,
but in other places there were cooling going on.
Also during that period scientist know there were observable solar activity.
_________
One of the most often cited arguments of those skeptical of global warming is that the Medieval Warm Period (800-1400 AD) was as warm as or warmer
than today. Using this as proof to say that we cannot be causing current warming is a faulty notion based upon rhetoric rather than science. So what
are the holes in this line of thinking?
Firstly, evidence suggests that the Medieval Warm Period may have been warmer than today in many parts of the globe such as in the North Atlantic.
This warming thereby allowed Vikings to travel further north than had been previously possible because of reductions in sea ice and land ice in the
Arctic. However, evidence also suggests that some places were very much cooler than today including the tropical pacific. All in all, when the warm
places are averaged out with the cool places, it becomes clear that the overall warmth was likely similar to early to mid 20th century warming.
https://www.skepticalscience.com/medieval-warm-period.htm
[Edited on 2-8-2019 by JoeJustJoe]
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6 |
![[*]](images/xmbforum/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
