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LancairDriver
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Mexico restricts Boeing 737 max flights
Looks like Mexico has joined the crowd in suspending flights of the 737Max until an investigation of the conditions causing the two recent crashes is
complete. Boeing has some 5,000 pending orders for the airplane so it must be the highest priority.
Since Fishbuck was a recent Boeing employee maybe he has some inside info?
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Bajazly
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Just read something about this and the US is allowing business as usual and says it doesn’t have enough data to take any action.
Believing is religion - Knowing is science
Harald Pietschmann
"Get off the beaten path and memories, friends and new techniques are developed"
Bajazly, August 2019
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fishbuck
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This is why I retired.
In the past few years there has been alot of movement at the top of the company.
Let's say the the MBAs have gained more influence in the company than the Quality professions.
Think Winnebago.
Winnebago does not do any quality inspections before the product leaves the factory.
They rely on single verification (the mechanic) to verify conformiry to design.
Ofcourse they miss things.
They are counting on the "owner" to catch the defects in service and return to the dealer for warranty work.
Good luck with the dealer.
Boeing likes this quality model.
Boeing delivered a record amount of 737s last year with a huge end of year push.
The planes in question are part of that batch.
You can now see why the Winnebego model does not work for airliners.
The people killed thought Boeing did a good job.
These airplanes are so heavily electric now it is extremely difficult to get every connection and ground installed properly.
An intermitant ground is causing these crashes.
The autopilot gets bad info and pushes the nose straight down
On takeoff.
Our guys are ready for it when it goes wrong.
There is no time to figure this out realtime.
Have you finger on that trim disconnect switch until you have fat altitude.
There is no reason for these accidents.
But you can now see why our guys are all "Sullys".
The foreign pilots haven't seen the movie "Sully" yet.
But the problem is a quality issue from the factory.
That is where this problem will be solved by guys like me... if the company will let them.
[Edited on 3-13-2019 by fishbuck]
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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bajabuddha
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Just saw a blurb that BLOATUS is ordering grounding of the fleet. Then again, was gone as fast as it was posted, so no link .... yet.
I don't have a BUCKET LIST, but I do have a F***- IT LIST a mile long!
86 - 45*
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fishbuck
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They only person in the US with balls on this issue.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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fishbuck
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The flipside is to watch for Boeing stock to bottom out and buy as much as you can! It will bounce back quick.
It has been diving in post and premarket.
So be a good pilot and keep you eyes peeled and you head in the mission at all times.
Stay alert... stay alive..
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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fishbuck
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This is what you get with " We sure hope we get lucky" quality system (current trend)
Versus "send the inspector in and find everything wrong before it leaves" quality system.
No one likes to hear they did it wrong. Even when it's true.
It blows their illusion of themselves that they are actually good at what they do.
You see that the Company is still in denial on this and they bullied the FAA into not grounding the fleet.
These guys are stupidly dangerous...
[Edited on 3-13-2019 by fishbuck]
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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fishbuck
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I would have grounded both of these planes. They had this issue on prior flights. An intermittent problem.
Boeing should have flown those until they could duplicate the discrepancy and figure out what is wrong.
The software fix is a bandaid to change the emergency checklist so the pilots can react quick enough to save their lives.
But doesn't address the core issue at all...
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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fishbuck
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The other answer is that almost everyone in Washington is an idiot.
The other reason I retired.
Keep in mind that the last model 787 was grounded after it entered service. And none of them has crashed.. yet.
Boeing is getting better at making money but are losing their airplane building skills. Guys like me are fading just like the California aviation
industry has.
Because the wrong people run the company now.
[Edited on 3-13-2019 by fishbuck]
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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LancairDriver
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I think Fishbuck hit it on the head about intermittent electrical connection problems. These are the most difficult to isolate and correct. All latest
automobiles, rv’s and private aircraft are increasingly computerized with the pesky intermittent problems with some worse than others. You just need
to be lucky to avoid most of it.
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fishbuck
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When you have me doing the inspections... you already got lucky.
It happens on takeoff.
And anyone who has ridden on a jet knows takeoff is somewhat hard on the plane... full throttle, bumpy runway, high angle of attack during intial
climb-out.
The wires shake a bit and the loose ground or connection starts to fail. The flight computer gets bad readings and panics.
It can't always be tested for on the ground because it is ok in a static state.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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pacificobob
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Quote: Originally posted by fishbuck  | The other answer is that almost everyone in Washington is an idiot.
The other reason I retired
[Edited on 3-13-2019 by fishbuck] |
rather than everybody in washington being mentally challenged, i submit that the problem likely has its roots at Honeywell who makes the FMS flight
management system. i have many years flying these systems in heavy aircraft. b-747, MD-11 md-10 (updated dc-10) one example i can site is when
Mcdonnell Douglass launched the MD-11 620k lb t/o weight. ( any time in those fishbuck?) it took 9 software revisions over many months before landing
it no longer had rodeo like qualities.
these problems seldom boil down to a short/open circuit. i also doubt that issues found in winnabagos have much overlap with those found in transport
catagory a/c.
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David K
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Mike, isn't it possible to put an override on the system until the altitude justifies nose-down? I understand that this problem-system is an
anti-stall device.. and if you are 10,000 feet up, going nose down to increase airspeed, to prevent a stall, works... but at 1,000 feet AGL, it is a
death sentence...???
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LancairDriver
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There is a world of difference between modern day largely composite construction and fly by wire aircraft complexity compared to the old “steam
gauge” aircraft such as the early DC10’s and B747s. There are thousands of electrical connections requiring thousands of pins to be inserted into
connectors flawlessly in modern aircraft. These present a challenging inspection process. The late model RV’s and automobiles particularly have the
same problems as they have all gone to touch screen control of all systems with the same challenges. Hard failures are quickly diagnosed with
automatic error codes, but the intermittent problem that comes and goes presents problems. My late model Dodge pickup had an intermittent electrical
problem that the dealer finally pulled out a wiring harness with at least 10 connectors attached and replaced the entire harness. That’s today’s
world. Solved the problem.
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David K
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I look forward to when the miles of copper wire are replaced with fiber optics or ?? The future will be something to behold.
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fishbuck
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Copper is much tougher and lighter that a glass fiber. We only use fiber optic cable when neccesary. Huge volumes of data for a single purpose. Copper
for all other.
The company solution is thiner and thinner copper wire. And more of it.
And one bad connection... out of millions maybe, thousands forsure.
[Edited on 3-13-2019 by fishbuck]
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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David K
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Interesting that copper is lighter than a fiber cable if sized for the same amount of power or data transfer! Thanks!
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fishbuck
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| Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob | | Quote: Originally posted by fishbuck | The other answer is that almost everyone in Washington is an idiot.
The other reason I retired
[Edited on 3-13-2019 by fishbuck] |
rather than everybody in washington being mentally challenged, i submit that the problem likely has its roots at Honeywell who makes the FMS flight
management system. i have many years flying these systems in heavy aircraft. b-747, MD-11 md-10 (updated dc-10) one example i can site is when
Mcdonnell Douglass launched the MD-11 620k lb t/o weight. ( any time in those fishbuck?) it took 9 software revisions over many months before landing
it no longer had rodeo like qualities.
these problems seldom boil down to a short/open circuit. i also doubt that issues found in winnabagos have much overlap with those found in transport
catagory a/c. |
Since you know the MD-11 saga you may know that is what lead to the the demise of the MD-11 and Douglas Aircraft.
Boeing is making identical mistakes but on a much larger scale.
That is Hubris.
The think they are soo much smarter... in Washington... and nearly 400 people are dead because of it.
I was there for the last commercial DC-10 and the KC-10 and the MD-11.
And the demise of Douglas Aircraft.
McDonnel (St Louis) is still in business with Boeing.
We were McDonnell Douglas.
Now it's McDonnell Boeing. They don't use the name. Just Boeing.
And the same St Louis mistakes that ruined the MD-11 program. That is where the MBA ideas come from.
And ruined Douglas.
We should have never merged.
But it was inevitable.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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fishbuck
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| Quote: Originally posted by LancairDriver | | There is a world of difference between modern day largely composite construction and fly by wire aircraft complexity compared to the old “steam
gauge” aircraft such as the early DC10’s and B747s. There are thousands of electrical connections requiring thousands of pins to be inserted into
connectors flawlessly in modern aircraft. These present a challenging inspection process. The late model RV’s and automobiles particularly have the
same problems as they have all gone to touch screen control of all systems with the same challenges. Hard failures are quickly diagnosed with
automatic error codes, but the intermittent problem that comes and goes presents problems. My late model Dodge pickup had an intermittent electrical
problem that the dealer finally pulled out a wiring harness with at least 10 connectors attached and replaced the entire harness. That’s today’s
world. Solved the problem. |
When we have time constrants we don't trouble shoot either.
We replace the entire system where possible and sometimes never know exactly what was wrong.
It's an expensive way to fix it.
We send the conponents back to the vendor.
He bench tests them and returns them to stock.
Sometimes we get the same faulty parts back.
They get "damaged" when we get them back so they are never seen again after that.
You can't teach this in a classroom.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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fishbuck
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | Mike, isn't it possible to put an override on the system until the altitude justifies nose-down? I understand that this problem-system is an
anti-stall device.. and if you are 10,000 feet up, going nose down to increase airspeed, to prevent a stall, works... but at 1,000 feet AGL, it is a
death sentence...??? |
Your idea is excellent.
The system in question is actually an automated system to make the airplane easier to fly.
The policy would be to have all those systems activated before takeoff.
Since we know there is a problem be ready for it when it happens and turn a switch of very quicly and then carefully hand fly the airplane back to the
runway.
Twice that did not happen.
Are you a good enough pilot to compensate...
Or should we just ground the fleet and not test your inner "Sully".
The decision to fly belongs to the "Pilot in Command".
But his job and life hang in the balance.
He will be fired if he doesn't fly it.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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