David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64476
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Another historic site blocked by a locked gate.
It is sad (to me) when the public can no longer experience some of Baja's magic locations because of locked gates being installed a mile or more from
a point of interest. Older folks or young people with parents can not always hike long distances in the desert. So when there are (were) places you
could drive to, it opens up a world of wonder and learning.
In 2018, we lost Mission San Fernando and the nearby petroglyph-covered cliff. San Fernando was the first Franciscan California mission established by
Junípero Serra, founded before San Diego's mission. The petroglyphs have been written about for over 114 years... one resembles a sailing ship. a
small bit of modern graffiti was added, but did not deface the existing letters. The site is just 3 miles from Highway 1 and a 2WD sedan can (could)
reach it.
In January 2019, a new locked gate was discovered on the 6 mile long road to Montevideo (2 miles south of the L.A. Bay highway, off the San Borja
road), the spectacular painted cliff site first discovered (by outsiders) in the early 1960s... and not one bit of graffiti added. That may be due to
its location where off roaders can easily reach but not 2WD sedans?
Now, in March 2019, the road going east, just north of San Borja has a locked gate. This road provided access to Las Tinajitas pictograph
site. Baja Cat and I have posted our photos taken there. One appears to be a 'Medicine Man' wearing horns.
Thanks to photographs, they are preserved for all... Behind locked gates, anything could happen and nobody would know (or perhaps care).
LAS TINAJITAS (San Borja region):
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norte
Super Nomad
Posts: 1163
Registered: 10-8-2008
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Just horrible they are taking your playground away that no one gave you the rights to anyway. I personally am glad they are finally protecting these
sites.
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basautter
Senior Nomad
Posts: 862
Registered: 7-1-2013
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This sort of closure is happening in Arizona too. Unfortunately the bad behavior of a few impacts all of us.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64476
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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But, the last two sites have had no "bad behavior"(in the past 50+ years). The first site got a little bad behavior shortly after Hwy. 1 was paved.
Good roads and not locked gates are what allows bad people in.
What good are sites like these if the people cannot view them? Thank goodness for books from Harry Crosby and photos from Baja Nomads so future Baja
lovers can see what was once a wonder of the past.
What if a locked gate keeps surfers away from the Seven Sisters or blocks access to fishing beaches or boats... and see the fit some Nomads have! LOL
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basautter
Senior Nomad
Posts: 862
Registered: 7-1-2013
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Quote: Originally posted by David K  | But, the last two sites have had no "bad behavior"(in the past 50+ years). The first site got a little bad behavior shortly after Hwy. 1 was paved.
Good roads and not locked gates are what allows bad people in.
What good are sites like these if the people cannot view them? Thank goodness for books from Harry Crosby and photos from Baja Nomads so future Baja
lovers can see what was once a wonder of the past.
What if a locked gate keeps surfers away from the Seven Sisters or blocks access to fishing beaches or boats... and see the fit some Nomads have! LOL
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Good point. Az shuts down areas in anticipation of possible damage. I work with the Forest Service and State Parks to find a mutually agreeable
solution. This includes barriers near sensitive areas, and education for the OHV community. There has been some successes.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64476
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Good... where such is needed to protect sites from selfish, stupid people.
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basautter
Senior Nomad
Posts: 862
Registered: 7-1-2013
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Clarification required. Barriers near sensitive areas so people can still walk there, but OHV's canot turn them into new trails. I am on your side.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64476
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Nice... public land for the public.. what a concept! So many push for closing public lands and they are people who never leave their city dwellings.
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John Harper
Super Nomad
Posts: 2289
Registered: 3-9-2017
Location: SoCal
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David,
Are these sites on public lands? Or private ranches? A mix? I could understand a private ranch tiring of litter and strangers on their property.
I've been to a lot of the petroglyph sites near Bishop, and it was a sad day when some were seriously vandalized a few years ago. The selfishness of
man is just shocking sometimes.
John
[Edited on 3-27-2019 by John Harper]
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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No Worries
One can view primitive graphics of equal (or superior ?) artistry under most highway overpasses and elsewhere on either side of the border.
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Archie
Nomad
Posts: 163
Registered: 4-23-2012
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K |
Now, in March 2019, the road going east, just north of San Borja has a locked gate. This road provided access to Las Tinajitas pictograph
site. Baja Cat and I have posted our photos taken there. One appears to be a 'Medicine Man' wearing horns. |
That gate has been there for at least 6 yrs. If you want to go to Las Tinajitas just hire Chepe or his sons at San Borja, he has the key.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17280
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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Private land. Not public. Quit whining about your being prevented from trespassing!
The public is mostly Knuckledragging M0R0NS, so I mostly support landowners that want to keep public out.
If you want public land, stay in the USA, USA and Canada are two of the best countries for abundance of public land.
Unfortunately, there is very little public land in Mexico. You can thank history for the lack of public land in Mexico, it is what it is, the past is
the past. Ejidos were the closest Mexico came to public lands, and that ejido history is largely was because the elites and evil church that held the
land abused the citizenry.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64476
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Hi Archie, unless we share we won't know. Today, a Nomad told me there was a locked gate. It was the first I had heard. It is a site that has not been
published and BajaCat was the only Nomad I think who also shared photos from a 2006 trip. I have only been there once, in 2001 when Neal John's showed
it to Amo Pescar and I. Yes, I knew José or his sons have guided people there. I told the Nomad that was an option. Some of us go to Baja to connect
with Nature in solitude.
[Edited on 3-27-2019 by David K]
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larryC
Super Nomad
Posts: 1482
Registered: 8-11-2008
Location: BoLA
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Just last week I talked to Henry, the young man from San Borja that now works for the government and is responsible for all the historic sites in the
San Borja area. I asked him about the locked gate to Monte Video and he said that Ruben Daggett owned the land out there and not too long ago someone
killed one of his animals and defaced or stole one of the paintings out there so Ruben put up the gate. Supposedly now if you want to go out there you
need to talk to Ruben and maybe he will give you the key. Haven't talked to Ruben myself so not sure how much truth there is to this story.
Off grid, 12-190 watt evergreen solar panels on solar trackers, 2-3648 stacked Outback inverters, 610ah LiFePo4 48v battery bank, FM 60 and MX60
Outback charge controllers, X-240 Outback transformer for 240v from inverters, 6500 watt Kubota diesel generator.
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LancairDriver
Super Nomad
Posts: 1587
Registered: 2-22-2008
Location: On the Road
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| Quote: Originally posted by larryC | | Just last week I talked to Henry, the young man from San Borja that now works for the government and is responsible for all the historic sites in the
San Borja area. I asked him about the locked gate to Monte Video and he said that Ruben Daggett owned the land out there and not too long ago someone
killed one of his animals and defaced or stole one of the paintings out there so Ruben put up the gate. Supposedly now if you want to go out there you
need to talk to Ruben and maybe he will give you the key. Haven't talked to Ruben myself so not sure how much truth there is to this story.
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As long as this type of individual mentioned exists that defaces or steals and has the capability of easy access to these sites it is best to take
action to protect these historical assets for the people. It is a small inconvenience to hire a guide to provide at least some protection.
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norte
Super Nomad
Posts: 1163
Registered: 10-8-2008
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by larryC | | Just last week I talked to Henry, the young man from San Borja that now works for the government and is responsible for all the historic sites in the
San Borja area. I asked him about the locked gate to Monte Video and he said that Ruben Daggett owned the land out there and not too long ago someone
killed one of his animals and defaced or stole one of the paintings out there so Ruben put up the gate. Supposedly now if you want to go out there you
need to talk to Ruben and maybe he will give you the key. Haven't talked to Ruben myself so not sure how much truth there is to this story.
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GOOD! I have seen pictures of people on this forum trampling all over these sites, rubbing their hands all over the paintings. Usually selfies.
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thebajarunner
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3687
Registered: 9-8-2003
Location: Arizona....."Free at last from crumbling Cali
Member Is Offline
Mood: muy amable
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Don't you wish that someone could put some protection around all the big rocks on both sides of the highway in Catavina?
What a shame that retarded scribblers have run amok there all these years.....
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bajabuddha
Banned
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Registered: 4-12-2013
Location: Baja New Mexico
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Mood: Always cranky unless medicated
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Fool's names and fool's faces........ 
I don't have a BUCKET LIST, but I do have a F***- IT LIST a mile long!
86 - 45*
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bajatrailrider
Super Nomad
Posts: 2423
Registered: 1-24-2015
Location: Mexico
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | Private land. Not public. Quit whining about your being prevented from trespassing!
The public is mostly Knuckledragging M0R0NS, so I mostly support landowners that want to keep public out.
If you want public land, stay in the USA, USA and Canada are two of the best countries for abundance of public land.
Unfortunately, there is very little public land in Mexico. You can thank history for the lack of public land in Mexico, it is what it is, the past is
the past. Ejidos were the closest Mexico came to public lands, and that ejido history is largely was because the elites and evil church that held the
land abused the citizenry.
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Another stupid post from 666 so you think. anybody listens to
blow hard tourist like you. Get out of your rocker enjoy outdoors ahh
too much to ask loser.
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4x4abc
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4163
Registered: 4-24-2009
Location: La Paz, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: happy - always
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| Quote: Originally posted by thebajarunner | Don't you wish that someone could put some protection around all the big rocks on both sides of the highway in Catavina?
What a shame that retarded scribblers have run amok there all these years..... |
hey, in 2,000 years this will be re-discovered as rock art. Scientists will scratch their heads what they all mean.
Harald Pietschmann
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