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Author: Subject: Grey Whale Concerns
Lee
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[*] posted on 8-10-2019 at 04:03 PM


Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo  

The brutal whaling industry of the last century left a lot of food for species like pollack to flourish, and sea lions along with them. The recovery of the whale population, along with the human industry that has grown around commercial fishing, has made it tough to guess what is 'normal' anymore!


Japan has resumed whaling and there's nothing the US is going to do about it. The norm? Not really.

MX gill fishing off Pescadero. Miles of nets. Cabo Harbor Master knows about it.

Choose your battle. Planet going to hell in a hand basket. Got my popcorn.




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[*] posted on 8-10-2019 at 04:12 PM


Quote: Originally posted by Lee  
Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo  

The brutal whaling industry of the last century left a lot of food for species like pollack to flourish, and sea lions along with them. The recovery of the whale population, along with the human industry that has grown around commercial fishing, has made it tough to guess what is 'normal' anymore!


Japan has resumed whaling and there's nothing the US is going to do about it. The norm? Not really.

MX gill fishing off Pescadero. Miles of nets. Cabo Harbor Master knows about it.

Choose your battle. Planet going to hell in a hand basket. Got my popcorn.



Unfortunately Lee I think this is the battle for our lives as well
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Skipjack Joe
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[*] posted on 8-12-2019 at 06:13 PM


Malnutrition and carrying capacity go hand in hand. I don't understand how they theorize it could be one or the other. You don't starve unless you're running out of food. Carrying capacity means lacking food. The carrying capacity has likely dropped and we're seeing starvation. It should be easy to show if the amphipod populations have declined.
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[*] posted on 8-12-2019 at 06:16 PM


The question is, Is the food supply decreasing due to global warming, or has the population exceeded the amount of food normally available?



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[*] posted on 8-12-2019 at 07:39 PM


Animal populations in a stable environment approach their capacity as a sigmoidal curve. That is, as they reach that limit the birth and death rate are virtually the same. Healthy mature animals are not the ones to go. It’s the young and aged.

Animals living in unstable populations have massive die offs due to facing hostile conditions they can’t cope with. Those populations never reach the carrying capacity of the good environment before it changes and there is massive die off. These die offs occur every year so these species have adapted by having lots of offspring quickly.

The grey whale is a species evolved for a stable environment. When their habitat crashes they’re in big trouble.

So, in summary, the pattern of whale die off is not what you’d expect from reaching a stable carrying capacity.

Hope this makes sense.

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[*] posted on 8-12-2019 at 07:40 PM


Millions of species are at risk of extinction because of the greed, gluttony, selfishness and idiocy of humans. The best thing that could happen to reverse the pollution and habitat/climate destruction of man, and save the whales, is for Ebola or another disease to wipe away 83% of the world human population.
Maybe then good sport fishing would return to baja, eh?




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[*] posted on 8-12-2019 at 08:00 PM


That's a bit extreme, don't you think?

Are there any volunteers for such a correction?

The thing is that climate deniers don't seem to understand the principles of animal survival. One well known denier here pooh poohed the difficulty of polar bears "Don't worry about the bears. They'll manage". No they won't. Without a return of their lost habitat they'll sit in zoos, artificially propagated for all eternity. There are no zoos for grey whales.



[Edited on 8-13-2019 by Skipjack Joe]
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[*] posted on 8-12-2019 at 08:28 PM


Quote: Originally posted by Skipjack Joe  
That's a bit extreme, don't you think?

Are there any volunteers for such a correction?


Not extreme.
All species die out eventually. Paleontology tells us so. History repeats itself.
Perhaps the best thing for the earth is for humans to go extinct, the earlier the better, from the perspective of other species that human activity is driving extinct.




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[*] posted on 8-12-2019 at 08:53 PM


^ what Skip Jack said. I think they are in trouble
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[*] posted on 8-13-2019 at 04:00 AM


Quote: Originally posted by Skipjack Joe  
Animal populations in a stable environment approach their capacity as a sigmoidal curve. That is, as they reach that limit the birth and death rate are virtually the same. Healthy mature animals are not the ones to go. It’s the young and aged.

Animals living in unstable populations have massive die offs due to facing hostile conditions they can’t cope with. Those populations never reach the carrying capacity of the good environment before it changes and there is massive die off. These die offs occur every year so these species have adapted by having lots of offspring quickly.

The grey whale is a species evolved for a stable environment. When their habitat crashes they’re in big trouble.

So, in summary, the pattern of whale die off is not what you’d expect from reaching a stable carrying capacity.

Hope this makes sense.



Makes sense, thanks.




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[*] posted on 8-13-2019 at 01:01 PM


Change has happened throughout the history of this planet- but not at the current rate, and not for the reasons we see today.

These latest changes are related to anthropogenic impacts- primarily resulting from the burning of fossil fuels in various forms.

And warming has certainly happened in past millenia. So has cooling. But the rapid increase of CO2 in the last 50-60 years, and related warming of oceans, seas, and melting of glaciers- is unprecedented in speed and scale.

Yes- grey whales have adapted and survived in a changing world for millions of years- one that has been warming and cooling long before humans were here.

But the rapid rate of melting ice and warming seas may be beyond their adaptive strategies.

https://www.star2.com/living/2019/07/17/grey-whales-starving...

And this:

The broader context

The Arctic climate has seemingly gone off the rails this summer. There is no longer any sea ice present in Alaskan waters, with Bering Sea ice having melted out beginning in February, and ice in the Chukchi Sea already pulling back hundreds of miles north of the state. Alaska had its hottest month on record in July. Wildfires are burning across the state, and fires in Siberia have sent plumes of dark smoke into the Arctic, where soot particles can land on the ice and snow and speed up melting.

In July alone, the Greenland ice sheet poured 197 billion tons of water into the North Atlantic, which was enough to raise sea levels by 0.5 millimeter, or 0.02 inches, in a one-month time frame. On Aug. 1, Greenland had its biggest single-day melt event on record, with 12.5 billion tons of surface ice lost to the sea.

Across the Arctic, sea ice is at record to near-record low levels for this time of year and is likely to end the melt season with one of the five lowest ice extents on record in the satellite era, according to the National Snow and Ice Data Center in Boulder, Colo. Sea-ice extent is probably the lowest it has been in at least 1,500 years, based on recent research.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2019/08/12/lightning-...

[Edited on 8-13-2019 by Whale-ista]




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[*] posted on 8-13-2019 at 05:02 PM


The observations they have been recording are off the charts
Unfortunately the torture these different species have been enduring may take them beyond the brink
Sad future for the travelers
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[*] posted on 8-21-2019 at 09:34 AM


Quote: Originally posted by OCEANUS  
Explanations span from malnourishment to potentially reaching their population carrying capacity. Necropsies support malnourishment idea, as many stranded whales were "skinny." Something similar happened back in 1999-2000. At that time, it was the younger whales succumbed to starvation first, and the mortality event extended into a second year with adults dying later as they arguably had more reserves of fat to sustain them.
It would be interesting to hear what Shari and others observed with this year's class. Did these whales appear arrive underweight? Did lagoon fasting complicate the survival prospects for what was already an undernourished individual?
Time will tell...


April 1999 we found this juvenile Grey at the southern beach near La Mona in the BOLA. Had washed ashore during the night.


[Edited on 8-21-2019 by Marc]

[Edited on 8-22-2019 by BajaNomad]
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[*] posted on 8-21-2019 at 10:35 AM


Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by Skipjack Joe  
That's a bit extreme, don't you think?

Are there any volunteers for such a correction?


Not extreme.
All species die out eventually. Paleontology tells us so. History repeats itself.
Perhaps the best thing for the earth is for humans to go extinct, the earlier the better, from the perspective of other species that human activity is driving extinct.

If you pay any attention to the militaristic action accelerating rapidly in the world today, primarily led by the US, human extinction shouldn’t take much longer.
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[*] posted on 8-21-2019 at 10:52 AM


I hope we can keep this topic on track.
The climate information coming to light has a very bleak outlook for the Grey whale in the near future
Not in 50 Years , NOW
Lionel :(
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[*] posted on 11-16-2019 at 10:09 AM


Revived for interjection of actual facts: California Gray whale population is about 27000. Nearly extinct in the 50s, they are doing just fine. Maybe to fine. Too much competition and they starve to death.
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[*] posted on 11-16-2019 at 07:38 PM


Quote: Originally posted by Gscott  
Revived for interjection of actual facts: California Gray whale population is about 27000. Nearly extinct in the 50s, they are doing just fine. Maybe to fine. Too much competition and they starve to death.


while you're at it, why not dig up the facts on plankton production in the oceans, what controls that production, food chains and webs etc. here's a hint for you, whales head to the polar regions to eat - because of cold water - huh - wonder why? and if that water warms up a bit, or gets less saline, or the Ph changes - what happens then?

I'll be waiting for your report back on those facts!
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[*] posted on 11-16-2019 at 07:43 PM


Sorry to report that the Makah Indian Tribe of the NW corner of Washington has petitioned to be allowed to take(KILL) 2=3 grey whales for the next 10yrs. Looks like the NOAA is supporting this.
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[*] posted on 11-16-2019 at 08:20 PM


Quote: Originally posted by caj13  


while you're at it, why not dig up the facts on plankton production in the oceans, what controls that production, food chains and webs etc. here's a hint for you, whales head to the polar regions to eat - because of cold water - huh - wonder why? and if that water warms up a bit, or gets less saline, or the Ph changes - what happens then?


You are missing a huge factor in your analysis. It is the midnight sun that triggers the explosive growth in the food chain. The whales follow the sun north, then south again.




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[*] posted on 11-17-2019 at 08:49 AM


Quote: Originally posted by caj13


while you're at it, why not dig up the facts on plankton production in the oceans, what controls that production, food chains and webs etc. here's a hint for you, whales head to the polar regions to eat - because of cold water - huh - wonder why? and if that water warms up a bit, or gets less saline, or the Ph changes - what happens then?


You are missing a huge factor in your analysis. It is the midnight sun that triggers the explosive growth in the food chain. The whales follow the sun north, then south again.


Gringo
Your argument that whales are "following the sun" is incorrect for the following reasons:

1. While the sun plays a role in (phyto)plankton production, what triggers the "explosive growth" in plankton populations is the availability of nutrients. Nutrients are a limiting factor which means when all the basic requirements of photosynthesis have been met (Water, CO2, and light), nutrients are the factor that differentiate the productvity of one area over another. These nutrients are more abundant in colder, deeper waters. When events like wind upwell these nutrients to the surface, you get plankton blooms.
In the case of gray whales (and humpback whales) they time their feeding to coincide when the gulf of Alaska/Bering Sea is coldest. Coldest water correlates with more nutrient upwelling events, more nutrients correlates with the "explosive growth of the food chain", which correlates with more food for our whales.
2. Whales do not follow the sun south for the purposes of food. Instead, you should view it as a trade off. Whales are leaving a good thing in the north, in this case food, to capitalize on a good thing to the south which in this case is warm, protected and highly saline bodies of water in Baja to calve and nurse their young. Their epic journeys south take them through relatively warmer, nutrient deplete waters that do not provide the abundance of food as their Alaskan waters did. This lack of food is tolerable because the conditions in the lagoons of Baja's west coast provide the safest, warmest, and most buoyant waters in the North Pacific at that time of year. These conditions allow for their calves to translate more of their calorie intake to growth and fat over the 1-2 months that they will spend in the lagoons before they make the ~6,000 mile journey north for the spring upwelling events in Alaskan waters. These upwelling events will again fuel the explosion of food that will re-nourish their bodies after spending so much energy to complete the journey.

So, caj13 is correct. The nutrients are the ticket. And when we face changing conditions to our oceans like temperature and pH, you should have the mindset that tries to predict how these changes will affect nutrient availability.
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