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Author: Subject: Grey Whale Concerns
AKgringo
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[*] posted on 11-17-2019 at 10:14 AM


Oceanus, your explanation of that part of the whale's existence is well stated, and I am aware of the importance of all parts of the cycle.

For the sake of brevity, I stated that the whales follow the sun, which I admit is a poor analogy, but no worse than Caj13's statement that "they go there because the water is cold"!

I was just pointing out that he omitted a huge component of the equation in his reply to Gscott. I also tried to do it without resorting to sarcastic, mocking retorts!

As far as my mindset, I am not in denial, I am concerned about the future of our planet, but the prediction of consequences is beyond my paygrade.




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[*] posted on 11-17-2019 at 11:23 AM


Quote: Originally posted by OCEANUS  


In the case of gray whales (and humpback whales) they time their feeding to coincide when the gulf of Alaska/Bering Sea is coldest. Coldest water correlates with more nutrient upwelling events,

end quote
Wait a minute. The whales migrate south in the winter. They feed in the arctic in the summer. You are saying that the water in the arctic is colder in the summer?

27,000 whales consume a lot of cephalopods. Maybe due to protected status they have reached their maximum population. I do not really like the idea of killing these intelligent creatures but maybe nature is just self limiting the population. Would being harpooned and made into whale jerky be worse than starving and washing up on a beach?

[Edited on 11-17-2019 by bajaric]
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[*] posted on 11-17-2019 at 12:16 PM


*When you reply to a quote, make sure to begin your reply after the ending quote tag ... that tag looks like [ /quote]. Otherwise, your reply is included in the other Nomad's quote. You can edit your reply and add the tag [ /quote] (without the extra space) before your part begins.



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[*] posted on 11-17-2019 at 05:01 PM


Ric - Nice try. But I will assume you know you and your proposed ideas are logical fallacies, but i guess you figured it was worth a try - anything to support team climate denier - right!

So why would that stupid CAJ make such a dumb staement about migrating to cold water?
I guess you guys are setting him straight - imagine he's too dumb to understand that the temperature of the ocean in Laguna ojo de Libre in Jan - march is "MUch warmer" than the Arctic ocean at the same time - right, so CAJ is clearly wrong - because if they were migrating to cold for more food - they would be up in the arctic in the winter - right!

Wait - wait - seems to me they don't eat during the time they are in Baja? so why bother = Oh - take a guess, warm water with much less predators makes it a great growth environment for calving?

so why in the world to the head north for the summer ? whats the water temp of the arctic ocean in July, as compared to Baja - and one more time - what does water temp have to do with copopod and Krill productivity?

So these idiotic whales head south for warmth and safety to protect the young, but then have to migrate back to cold water to find the volume of food they need.

and all of a sudden their food supply is reduced by 30% - So what would happen to you if I reduced your food by 1/3, then sent you on a forced 5000 mile march with no food?

This isn't that hard guys, pretty basic biology - very well known and worked out. I'm sorry if it conflicts with your personal agenda but at some point - don't you think you ought to actually deal with facts and data, instead of fabricated nonsense based on logical fallacy and invented ideas with no evidence supporting it!

[Edited on 11-18-2019 by caj13]
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[*] posted on 11-17-2019 at 09:19 PM


Quote: Originally posted by bajaric  
Quote: Originally posted by OCEANUS  


In the case of gray whales (and humpback whales) they time their feeding to coincide when the gulf of Alaska/Bering Sea is coldest. Coldest water correlates with more nutrient upwelling events,

end quote
Wait a minute. The whales migrate south in the winter. They feed in the arctic in the summer. You are saying that the water in the arctic is colder in the summer?

27,000 whales consume a lot of cephalopods. Maybe due to protected status they have reached their maximum population. I do not really like the idea of killing these intelligent creatures but maybe nature is just self limiting the population. Would being harpooned and made into whale jerky be worse than starving and washing up on a beach?

[Edited on 11-17-2019 by bajaric]


from https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/SeaIce

"When the ice melts in the summer, it releases nutrients into the water, stimulating the growth of phytoplankton, the center of the marine food web. As the ice melts, it exposes ocean water to sunlight, spurring photosynthesis in phytoplankton. When ice freezes, the underlying water gets saltier and sinks, mixing the water column and bringing nutrients to the surface."

The phytoplankton in the Arctic are like the plants in your backyard. Your plants need sunlight but they also need to be fertilized. 'Fertilization' in the arctic occurs by upwhelling water that brings nutrients from the bottom. The arctic is rich in life because when the ice freezes the saltier water sinks and there is an up and down current. The tropics, in comparison, are pretty much devoid of life in the open seas. The water has plenty of sunlight but no nutrients. So if you reduce the ice caps you get more sunlight but fewer nutrients. Fewer nutrients mean fewer phytoplankton which means fewer amphipods which means the carrying capacity for whales drops and they start to starve. In fact, as the food chain collapses lots of critters begin to starve.

Also - grey whales consume amphipods (crustaceans) not cephalopods (molluscs)
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[*] posted on 11-18-2019 at 09:50 AM


Its all about the plankton, eh? Don't get me wrong, I like whales. I am especially disgusted by the use of military sonar that disrupts their hearing. I simply wanted to point out that there must be a certain carrying capacity beyond which there are too many whales to be supported by the existing food source, even without considering the detrimental effects of global warming. I looked up the whale take back in whaling days and it was not that many, I think several thousand taken out of Scammon's lagoon if I remember right, so even back then before the industrial revolution put all that CO2 in the atmosphere there was a limited number of whales that could be supported by the existing food chain.

I wonder when the human population on earth will reach its apogee. Like the Dow Jones Industrial Average hitting an all time high, then starting an irreversible decline.
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[*] posted on 12-4-2019 at 11:16 AM


They do eat during their time in Baja - I have personally observed them feeding at the mouth of San Ignacio Lagoon just last year. Scripps Institution of Oceanography has also documented them feeding during their migration right off of Scripps pier in San Diego.
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[*] posted on 12-4-2019 at 01:24 PM


Gray whales will eat if food presents...for example they surface gulp when crab larvae float to the surface. But there is very little food available for them...they are just snacking when possible. They also teach their calves how to drag the bottom too but may not be feeding...although there are some ghost shrimp clouds near the bottom at times too.

Gray whales arent plankton eaters but plankton feeds what grays do eat so yes it all goes back to the importance of plankton.




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[*] posted on 12-5-2019 at 08:41 AM


A few years ago they had a permit and were using a 50 cal gun....not hand-held harpoons....

Don't ya love "sport" fishing :biggrin:


Quote: Originally posted by Floatflyer  
Sorry to report that the Makah Indian Tribe of the NW corner of Washington has petitioned to be allowed to take(KILL) 2=3 grey whales for the next 10yrs. Looks like the NOAA is supporting this.




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[*] posted on 12-5-2019 at 10:37 AM


Quote: Originally posted by motoged  
A few years ago they had a permit and were using a 50 cal gun....not hand-held harpoons....

Don't ya love "sport" fishing :biggrin:


Quote: Originally posted by Floatflyer  
Sorry to report that the Makah Indian Tribe of the NW corner of Washington has petitioned to be allowed to take(KILL) 2=3 grey whales for the next 10yrs. Looks like the NOAA is supporting this.


And I understand they were towed out in their traditional canoes with their 50 cal by powerboat. Yes, gotta love their “following old traditions”.
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[*] posted on 12-5-2019 at 10:52 AM


There has been movement in the Northwest by Fish and Game in developing ways of modifying Crab gear to prevent entangling Whales in the buoy ropes which has been part of the problem in killing whales. Presently a crab fisherman calls and reports an entangled whale and there is supposed to be a team ready to go help, which of course has had limited success. Developing an effective way to accomplish this is a huge challenge.
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