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Alan
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Registered: 4-6-2005
Location: Yucaipa, CA/La Paz
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Just for what it is worth
Scammed by a grandmotherly type at the Mexicali East INM.
Decided to make a quick run to La Paz and take a trailer down to pick up my waverunner and bring it north so my daughter and I jumped in the truck and
headed south last Tueday. We used the Mexicali East crossing and walked into INM to get our FMM's. A nice grandmother looking lady was at the counter
so we presented our passports and asked to get our FMM's. She asked to see our old one's. (Don't know how she knew we had old ones) but I pulled out
old expired ones and gave them to her. She then scolded me and said I was supposed to turn them in when I left the country or I could be fined. I
pointed to the card where it says "Multiple" and told her I thought it could be used for multiple crossings within the 180 day period. She said nope,
needs to be turned in when leaving country.
Next she said I had to go to the bank to pay and bring back the receipt but my daughter was to stay. Maybe she thought I was trafficking in young
ladies and wanted to ensure my daughter wasn't there under duress. I did as she
asked and when I came back my daughter wasn't there. I gave the lady the receipt and she asked how long I needed the FMM. I told her I wasn't sure,
10 days, maybe 2 weeks. She said my daughter told her 7 days. At that point I said fine, whatever. She marked my card for 7 days, stamped it and
sent me on my way. I was a bit peeved because I had now paid for a visa that should have been free but I wasn't going to waste more daylight arguing.
Went back to my truck where my daughter was waiting. I asked why she only requested a week. My daughter speaks even less spanish than I do and she
thought that was all the lady was offering. I said well no worries, we'll make it a short trip and at least you didn't have to pay for it. She said,
Oh no, she charged me! Do you have a receipt? Nope! That nice little old lady scammed us! Well technically my money went to the bank and I had a
receipt so she couldn't pocket that.
The road south of San Felipe was an absolute nightmare. Every single bridge has washed out. We ended up driving more miles on detours than pavement
which cracked a few welds on my trailer but we held things together with tie downs. Pulled into La Paz Wed evening.
The reports were pretty good so we decided we wanted to get some fishing in so we needed to go get an extension on our visas. What the heck, I had
already paid for it and had the receipt to prove it. We went to the office first thing Friday morning and explained everything to the lady at the
counter. She said her supervisor wasn't in and explained I would have to return Monday. I told her my Visa would expire Tuesday morning and I had a
2 day drive to get out of the country. She said no worries, it shouldn't be a problem.
When I returned Monday morning her supervisor explained there was nothing he could do. Her agreed that I shouldn't have been charged but the stamp
she had used said not to exceed 7 days and he was powerless to change it. I asked if I could just get new ones but he said no, I can only get it at a
point of entry. I asked what they do if I arrived by boat and he said he would need paperwork from the Port Captain. He said, don't worry, just be
careful, nobody asks to see my visa. I said yes, unless I get in an accident to which he replied, that is why I said to be careful.
Since he spoke such good English I asked him about turning the visa in when leaving the country. On this he agreed with the Mexicali lady that it was
a one-time use visa. I also showed him where it said "Multiple" on the form. His explanation of that was that they use that form to track multiple
things.
Once again it just goes to show, it will always depend on who you talk to on what day. Personally I have used my FMM for multiple entries and even
presented it to INM at the TIJ airport when flying back and forth with Volaris and it has never been an issue. (Because they are a domestic flight
they don't collect your Visa when leaving the country). I may reconsider reusing it in the future but that is just my decision. I'm only sharing my
experience and this was a new one for me.
Try as hard as we might to adhere to their laws it always boils down to the interpretation of the person you are dealing with at that specific moment.
So just add my experience to your own mental card files for your future decisions.
In Memory of E-57
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17295
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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Actually, the FMM has always been valid for only one entry, according to what is written on form and on INM website.
But many, me included, simply get one for 180 days and treat it as good for multiple entries.
Trump recently threatened Mexico re immigrant and border security, so i expect Mexico to enforce their system more rigorously, as they will need
additional fees paid to cover costs of border security.
[Edited on 6-16-2019 by mtgoat666]
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
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I got my Tourist Visa on my last trip. But did not turn it in when I left.
Is it still good? How would anyone know besides me?
[Edited on 6-16-2019 by fishbuck]
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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fishbuck
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Registered: 8-31-2006
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Quote: Originally posted by lencho  | | Quote: Originally posted by Alan | | I also showed him where it said "Multiple" on the form. His explanation of that was that they use that form to track multiple things.
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If you're talking about the phrase "Forma Migratoria Múltiple", this is correct-- within that context the
word in no way implies that it's good for repeated entries.
Or are you getting that impresion from elsewhere in the form? 
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In this context, what does "Múltiple" imply? Expressly or otherwise?
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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bill erhardt
Super Nomad
Posts: 1370
Registered: 4-2-2005
Location: Loreto, BCS
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FWIW - Good report on road conditions and immigration. Sounds like a fun trip with your daughter. But,.....How was the fishing? Did you make it up
to El Bajo or points north? I've been thinking about a run south from Loreto to Las Animas but haven't made it yet. It seems like summer has just
arrived but the season outside Mag Bay should start in six weeks or so. Last year there were wahoo limits on Thetis from the first week in August.
Guess I'll see you over there again this year?
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fishbuck
Banned
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Registered: 8-31-2006
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| Quote: Originally posted by bill erhardt | | FWIW - Good report on road conditions and immigration. Sounds like a fun trip with your daughter. But,.....How was the fishing? Did you make it up
to El Bajo or points north? I've been thinking about a run south from Loreto to Las Animas but haven't made it yet. It seems like summer has just
arrived but the season outside Mag Bay should start in six weeks or so. Last year there were wahoo limits on Thetis from the first week in August.
Guess I'll see you over there again this year? |
Nice report Bill. Thanks
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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sancho
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2524
Registered: 10-6-2004
Location: OC So Cal
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In my experience each Immigration office operates independently, one may/will encounter different application
of loose regs, a pain. Have been told several times at Mexicali
West the 180's do not have to be returned, the 7 day do.
It is my understanding the word Mulitiple refers to the
3 or so categories, Tourist, Business, etc. on the form.
I will continue
to use a 180 for multiple crossings until it expires
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
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Mood: Mad as hell
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The grandmotherly type at the Mexicali East INM, sounds like she may be senile, and doesn't know her own immigration laws. Then she goes beyond the
pale, and takes Alan's daughter hostage, while he goes to the banks for reasons, I'm still confused about?
I just hope the daughter was a young adult, before Alan, let them take her hostage.
I would not write off this incident off as Mexicans interpreting the rules differently, because clearly if what Alan is saying is accurate the
grandmotherly type, was off her rocker, and what Alan, should have did was act assertive with the old bag, and if that didn't work, ask for a
supervisor, and demand the FMM for 180 days, and not according to what the old bag wants to give you.
And then regardless of what they say use the FMM for multiple trips.
I always enter Mexico, by car or foot using San Ysidro, and so I'm not familiar with Mexicali East, but clearly they are doing something wrong.
I rarely advise anyone to act like a ugly American, in Mexico, because it's very embarrassing, especially when the ugly American, is in the wrong, but
in this case, it may have paid off being a very loud ugly American.
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Alan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1617
Registered: 4-6-2005
Location: Yucaipa, CA/La Paz
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by bill erhardt | | FWIW - Good report on road conditions and immigration. Sounds like a fun trip with your daughter. But,.....How was the fishing? Did you make it up
to El Bajo or points north? I've been thinking about a run south from Loreto to Las Animas but haven't made it yet. It seems like summer has just
arrived but the season outside Mag Bay should start in six weeks or so. Last year there were wahoo limits on Thetis from the first week in August.
Guess I'll see you over there again this year? |
Yes I did get out to the Bajo. I started the day with a
decent late season yellowtail of about 20#'s. We could see tuna breezing around us and we were chumming sardine like crazy trying to draw them in but
no luck. Then my daughter made my YT look puny when she pulled in two Pargo Cubera each about 25#s that had come up in our chum.
We were the only boat out there all day except for one troller that boxed the area one time before moving on. There are big Tuna out there as we saw
them throughout the day but couldn't get them to go and there is tonnage of skipjack and white bonita.
In Memory of E-57
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Alan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1617
Registered: 4-6-2005
Location: Yucaipa, CA/La Paz
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | Actually, the FMM has always been valid for only one entry, according to what is written on form
[Edited on 6-16-2019 by mtgoat666] |
well, I'll be! I am so embarrassed. In all these years I have never
ever bothered to actually read the form. Sure enough, the very first sentence on the back of the form says it must be surrendered upon leaving the
country. Never too old to learn something new!
In Memory of E-57
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64480
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Yet, when asked, the INM officers (many years and many officers) clearly tell you the 180 day one is valid for 180 days, you don't need to return it.
The 7 day one is supposed to be returned but when asked the INM officer in Tecate told me if it isn't, then it's ok.
There is no reasonable way to hand in the FMM before you return north. I did once at Tecate so I could report on the experience because Tecate INM
office isn't too difficult to get to, being a smaller city. Tijuana and Mexicali present a way bigger problem to get to when northbound.
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Alan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1617
Registered: 4-6-2005
Location: Yucaipa, CA/La Paz
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| Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe | The grandmotherly type at the Mexicali East INM, sounds like she may be senile, and doesn't know her own immigration laws. Then she goes beyond the
pale, and takes Alan's daughter hostage, while he goes to the banks for reasons, I'm still confused about?
I just hope the daughter was a young adult, before Alan, let them take her hostage.
I would not write off this incident off as Mexicans interpreting the rules differently, because clearly if what Alan is saying is accurate the
grandmotherly type, was off her rocker, and what Alan, should have did was act assertive with the old bag, and if that didn't work, ask for a
supervisor, and demand the FMM for 180 days, and not according to what the old bag wants to give you.
And then regardless of what they say use the FMM for multiple trips.
I always enter Mexico, by car or foot using San Ysidro, and so I'm not familiar with Mexicali East, but clearly they are doing something wrong.
I rarely advise anyone to act like a ugly American, in Mexico, because it's very embarrassing, especially when the ugly American, is in the wrong, but
in this case, it may have paid off being a very loud ugly American. |
Whoa! Let's slow this truck down.
Thanks to the education I have received from others on this post the only mistake that nice little old lady made was charging for a 7 day Visa that
should have been free.
My daughter was hardly held hostage. My daughter is a young lady in her early 30's and why she was allowed to pay there and I had to go to the bank I
have no idea but that is hardly something to request a supervisor over and the reason she was only given 7 days I feel was actually more of a language
barrier issue as I wasn't there to assist her. While my spanish isn't good at least I have been through the process enough times to figure out what
is being asked.
$26 is hardly reason to act ugly and if my report gave the impression that the lady was out of line I apologize. I now realize she was completely
correct in saying my old card should have been returned and it was nice to tell me that it COULD have resulted in a fine. Why she sent me to the bank
and not my daughter I will never know but if it was to ensure my daughter wasn't under duress I can only thank her and admire her quick thinking.
In Memory of E-57
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64480
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Alan, you have been a Nomad since 2005. How have you missed the zillion posts on FMM rules and procedures? Things like you never show them or keep
expired tourist cards, the free 7 day card, and so much more. When I read the post, it sounded like this was something you copied and pasted here and
not a personal experience.
So sorry you never read my numerous FMM posts in my trip reports as that could have saved you all this grief.
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defrag4
Senior Nomad
Posts: 536
Registered: 2-5-2011
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highway 5 has been f'd for over a year and reported on 100s of times, yet still constantly see people getting surprised by it
am I the only one who checks road conditions before leaving the country?
[Edited on 6-17-2019 by defrag4]
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
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Mood: Mad as hell
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| Quote: Originally posted by Alan |
My daughter was hardly held hostage. My daughter is a young lady in her early 30's and why she was allowed to pay there and I had to go to the bank I
have no idea but that is hardly something to request a supervisor over and the reason she was only given 7 days I feel was actually more of a language
barrier issue as I wasn't there to assist her. While my spanish isn't good at least I have been through the process enough times to figure out what
is being asked.
$26 is hardly reason to act ugly and if my report gave the impression that the lady was out of line I apologize. I now realize she was completely
correct in saying my old card should have been returned and it was nice to tell me that it COULD have resulted in a fine. Why she sent me to the bank
and not my daughter I will never know but if it was to ensure my daughter wasn't under duress I can only thank her and admire her quick thinking.
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You're too nice Alan, or maybe you don't want to face the fact that you were scammed and taking advantage of not only $26 dollars, and but that
Mexican old lady, ruined your trip with the 7 day FMM, that should have been free, when you ended up wanting to spend more time in Mexico, than just 7
days.
I don't buy the language barrier issue, everybody that works in customs areas or with foreigners on both sides of the borders, speak both English and
Spanish, and they speak it well.
Now maybe you didn't want to fuss over the $26 dollars for the 7 day FMM that should been free, but the fact it limited your trip to 7 days in Baja,
should have caused you to speak up, and ask for a supervisor, to at the very least issue you a longer FMM.
The old bag lady had no right to request your daughter stay with her regardless of age, and she was saying some things that I know are wrong, and at
some point, I know I wouldn't continue dealing with her.
Now had I been in your shoes, I would start out simple being assertive with the old bag, but once they started scamming my daughter, I would have went
completely ape-chit, like an ugly American, but that's just me.
Another thing I would do, is after the fact,I would not sweat the fact I'm in Baja, a few days after the FMM expired, especially when I rarely even
have a FMM on me, unless I go to Mexico on an airplane, or they insisted I have it filled out as a pedestrian.
I also never turn in my FMM, when driving or as a pedestrian, because there are no procedures to do so, and really only people with a big stick up
their behind, would drive in circles looking for a place to turn in the FMM on the way out of Baja, because they think its the law, it's the law!
here is what I believe about the FMM and the fact you see something written on the back of the FMM, could be dated and not accurate any longer.
The free tourist card (FMM): The tourist card is free if your stay in Mexico is 7 days or less and you are traveling by land into Baja. This
isn't frequently advertised. Ask your local INM official.
Is it possible to enter and exit Baja multiple times with the same tourist card (FMM)? Yes. The INM delegate for Baja California (Norte)
announced in September 2015 that the FMM is now multiple entry for land travel in Baja California only.
Does the tourist card (FMM) have to be returned to INM? As of January 2015 according to INM, returning the FMM is not necessary in Baja
California if you traveled by land. Although there is statement on the back of the FMM saying to return it, there is no procedure about how to return
it or where to return it when crossing by land. The Federal INM Delgate in other regions may require that you turn it in and get an exit stamp. If you
are not in the Baja Peninsula, it would be best to check with your local INM office.
https://www.bajabound.com/before/permits/visa.php
[Edited on 6-17-2019 by JoeJustJoe]
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Alan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1617
Registered: 4-6-2005
Location: Yucaipa, CA/La Paz
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | Alan, you have been a Nomad since 2005. How have you missed the zillion posts on FMM rules and procedures? Things like you never show them or keep
expired tourist cards, the free 7 day card, and so much more. When I read the post, it sounded like this was something you copied and pasted here and
not a personal experience.
So sorry you never read my numerous FMM posts in my trip reports as that could have saved you all this grief. |
Well Dave its because I have been a member since 2005 that I don't delve into every post on this board. I pretty much limit my
reading to what interests me, fishing, road conditions and La Paz. Yes I have seen posts from you and others on FMM's but as I have said with most
things in Baja. The only interpretation that really matters is the interpretation of the bureaucrat you are dealing with at that moment.
Would all this have been avoided if I hadn't shown her my expired card? Sure. But what can I say, she caught me off guard. I had never been asked
before. She took me totally by surprise. I had a seven day card because I had just flown down to La Paz on Volaris about 2 weeks before this trip so
the expired card just happened to still be in my documents pouch.
Copy and paste? Not a personal experience? Do you really think I am concerned about building a resume here? Please! Re-read the title of my post.
Take it or Leave it. Just sharing.
In Memory of E-57
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Alan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1617
Registered: 4-6-2005
Location: Yucaipa, CA/La Paz
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| Quote: Originally posted by defrag4 | highway 5 has been f'd for over a year and reported on 100s of times, yet still constantly see people getting surprised by it
am I the only one who checks road conditions before leaving the country?
[Edited on 6-17-2019 by defrag4] |
Yep, I had read the reports on MX5 but I also just had a report from a
friend of mine down there who said the construction between Ensenada and San Quintin on MX1 held him up well over an hour. Since MX5 saves me over 200
miles the time savings going down seem well worth it. After seeing the beating my trailer took I felt it wasn't worth the time savings on my
northbound trip with my ski on the trailer. In the end I lucked out and was only delayed for 7 minutes at the MX1 construction.
In Memory of E-57
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Alan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1617
Registered: 4-6-2005
Location: Yucaipa, CA/La Paz
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| Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe |
You're too nice Alan, or maybe you don't want to face the fact that you were scammed and taking advantage of not only $26 dollars, and but that
Mexican old lady, ruined your trip with the 7 day FMM, that should have been free, when you ended up wanting to spend more time in Mexico, than just 7
days.
[Edited on 6-17-2019 by JoeJustJoe] |
Well my trip was hardly ruined. We ended up staying for 11 days and my
daughter and I had a blast.
Don't want to face the fact that I was scammed? I'm pretty sure I just came on this board and confessed my stupidity to the entire group? Personally
I find humor in it.
[Edited on 6-17-2019 by Alan]
In Memory of E-57
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paranewbi
Senior Nomad
Posts: 913
Registered: 4-15-2011
Location: San diego
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Perhaps this helps with the confusion of $26 paid...
I frequent Tecate for drinks and taco's and just for a lark decided to enter the walkway immigration office to turn in a week expired 7 day visa. The
agent looked at it and remarked that I should have turned in the visa the day it expired and told me to cross the street to the bank and pay the $26
and return with my receipt. He explained that the 7 day visa converts to an extended visa (which would make sense if someone overstayed by choice and
freebeed the failed payment for a 180 day visa) and so I owed for the extended visa.
I picked up the 7 day visa from his desk and walked over the border to the Bar Diane for margaritas...took all of the $26 I would have paid at the
bank.
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defrag4
Senior Nomad
Posts: 536
Registered: 2-5-2011
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| Quote: Originally posted by Alan | | Quote: Originally posted by defrag4 | highway 5 has been f'd for over a year and reported on 100s of times, yet still constantly see people getting surprised by it
am I the only one who checks road conditions before leaving the country?
[Edited on 6-17-2019 by defrag4] |
Yep, I had read the reports on MX5 but I also just had a report from a
friend of mine down there who said the construction between Ensenada and San Quintin on MX1 held him up well over an hour. Since MX5 saves me over 200
miles the time savings going down seem well worth it. After seeing the beating my trailer took I felt it wasn't worth the time savings on my
northbound trip with my ski on the trailer. In the end I lucked out and was only delayed for 7 minutes at the MX1 construction.
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ya i got stuck in that MX1 construction as well, took about 30 mins or so
I still have never traveled the 5, looking forward to it one day when they finally get it fixed up!
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