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surfhat
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The next great extinction is at hand.
Past history of the previous extinctions is available for any to explore for themselves.
More than ever before the overwhelming evidence of mans' affect is available. CO2 and methane release will serve to be humanities downfall.
There are so many opportunities to learn from unasailable sources that are not seeking funding that should be respected.
Here I go again peeing nto the wind for a select few here to please educate themselves.
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SFandH
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Melting of the permafrost and subsequent methane release.........watch out, this warming trend isn't linear, it's accelerating.
[Edited on 7-21-2019 by SFandH]
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bajafam
Senior Nomad
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Which is it, David?
We've done nothing, so continue to do nothing?
There's nothing we can do, so do nothing?
or...
It's possible that we contributed to this mess, so let's try to do something to stop it or reverse it or slow it and not continue to make it worse?
Seems like the latter would be the definition of what you said earlier, "Do something that matters." Not clucking about how your palm tree proves that
all the science is fake news and money-grubbing liberal bull hockey.
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bajafam
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Quote: Originally posted by David K  | If you only read this or that, then you may miss the whole story.
I am not advocating you follow me, believe me, or any such religious fervor. I only suggest you believe your own eyes over some paid proponent who
benefits from this hysteria who can only show projections (guesses) of the future and not a shred of visual proof today, because there is none that
supports the hysteria but endless proof that supports the fact that the sea is not higher than 100 years ago... and we are finished with the
industrial pollution of the 1920s to 1970s.
It's a beautiful day, go to the beach! |
YOU only read this or that. I happen to read extensively and critically. You should try it.
I don't place faith on any one person, or any one palm tree. You should try it.
Acknowledging our contribution to climate change isn't hysteria. Looking for solutions to slow it or reverse it isn't hysteria.
Believing one's own eyes isn't Science. Your personal experience isn't proof of anything. It's anecdotal. No scientist or scholar anywhere bases any
fact on anecdotal "evidence." You should know that.
It's actually NOT a beautiful day. Temperatures are above average and moisture is way below. It's the middle of Monsoon season and we've had no rain.
Plants are wilting, wildfires are raging, people are literally DYING from the extreme heat.
Please stop telling people to just go to the beach. You're being a condescending d. o. u. c. h. e. wad.
[Edited on 7-21-2019 by bajafam]
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bajabuddha
Banned
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Location: Baja New Mexico
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Mood: Always cranky unless medicated
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DK is our very own Joe The Plumber, only it's Dave the Sprinkler Guy. He's smarter than all the pundits and professionals combined, and will soapbox
relentlessly (ad nauseum) on his myopic ideals.
The old dawg you can't teach new tricks..... chances are you never could. 
I don't have a BUCKET LIST, but I do have a F***- IT LIST a mile long!
86 - 45*
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bajafam
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says the guy that went right for N-zi and Communist. *eyeroll*
Science isn't a Liberal Conspiracy. There are plenty of educated conservative scientists and unaffiliated scientists that will also tell you that your
palm tree anecdote isn't science.
My children have a better grasp of science than you do.
Please try to learn something. This is a pretty good explanation on how science is "observation beyond our own eyes" ~ it's not scary to educate
yourself. I promise.
https://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/0_0_0/howscienceworks_05
"Humans cannot directly sense many of the phenomena that science investigates."
An isolated palm tree on the sand does not prove the level of the sea, in any way, shape, or form.
[Edited on 7-21-2019 by bajafam]
[Edited on 7-21-2019 by bajafam]
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bajafam
Senior Nomad
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https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/sealevel.html
"Global sea level trends and relative sea level trends are different measurements. Just as the surface of the Earth is not flat, the surface of the
ocean is also not flat—in other words, the sea surface is not changing at the same rate globally. Sea level rise at specific locations may be more
or less than the global average due to many local factors: subsidence, upstream flood control, erosion, regional ocean currents, variations in land
height, and whether the land is still rebounding from the compressive weight of Ice Age glaciers."
https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends.shtml
Looks like your palm tree doesn't really play much into NOAA's satellite altimetry. Weird.
https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/faq.shtml#q4
I was unaware that NOAA is a liberal N-zi communist organization set on taking your money and your good life. If you can present information to
support this claim, I'm excited to read it.
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KurtG
Super Nomad
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David,
Your palm tree hypothesis is ignoring one vital element. It sits in an area that is geologically active as indicated by the numerous hot springs in
the area. Just south of Santa Barbara Cove there is an active underwater thermal vent, the gas bubbles are quite evident if you know where to look.
A number of years ago I met a young guy who was studying that area for his Master's thesis, he pointed out to me from the vent location a fault line
area that could be clearly seen running north and south. I have no idea if the shore elevation where the palm trees are is changing relative to the
sea level but neither do you so it is all just guesswork not anything that can be presented as fact to support your or any other view. I take no
position on the matter other than to say this is one where we don't know what we don't know.
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pacificobob
Super Nomad
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Ignorance is one thing, being so willfully, and proud of it is a different thing.
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bajafam
Senior Nomad
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You brought it up, bro. Also, I've given you resources to examine, yet you ignore them. Tidal gauges and documentation over 150 years aren't enough to
prove that the sea levels are changing, but somehow a palm tree in one singular location is all the evidence we need to disprove these facts.
Sounds like someone doesn't even science, but that can't be you, now, can it?
Again. We, as humans, cannot rely on "our own eyes" as we are subjected to our own personal truths. We are biased to our own anecdotal experience, and
that is NOT science. Sorry, fella.
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bajafam
Senior Nomad
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K |
OK, so then why is the sea not rising anywhere else...
PLEASE SHOW ME THE SEA IS HIGHER instead of making fun of my use of a popular photo location that makes it obvious the sea is not.
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Is this not showing you??? This shows the evidence, loud and clear, that it is rising all over the planet, with very few locations showing a decrease.
Are you saying this is doctored, propaganda, conspiracy information, and data??????
https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends.shtml
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
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The Magical Palm Tree Pics .................
............ PROVE Nothing.
It's a Stupid argument given all of the variables and better OFFICIAL measurements available.
Dating back to the '50s (and before ?), long before there was this ongoing PARTISAN POLITICAL debate over Global Warming/Climate
Change, it was a generally accepted scientific position that there was incremental sea-level rise occurring. The figure I remember
(circa '56-'58) was 1/8" yearly. Accurate or not, prior to this politically-adversarial posturing, there didn't seem to be any significant
disagreement.
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bajafam
Senior Nomad
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David, since you are the pre-eminent scholar on sea-level rise, please share with me where other scientists are using the singular palm tree anecdote
as basis for disputing climate change and sea-level rise.
I'm sure that in the grand scheme of science, there is some organization that is utilizing this very specific and localized evidence to prove or
disprove this obvious democratic propaganda across the globe.
If not, why have you not proposed this scientific method to the world's best scientists? I'm positive that they would be thankful for you to show them
the simplicity of retrieving data that they have overlooked for over 150 years. They are going to be so relieved!
So much time, effort, and money wasted on satellite altimetry and tidal gauges when they just needed to look at your palm tree photos. Silly
scientists.
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6926
Registered: 8-5-2011
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yes, good number to remember
NASA:
"The rate of sea level rise in the satellite era has risen from about 0.1 inch (2.5 millimeters) per year in the 1990s to about 0.13 inches (3.4
millimeters) per year today."
1/8 = 0.125
"New study finds sea level rise accelerating"
https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2680/new-study-finds-sea-level...
[Edited on 7-22-2019 by SFandH]
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
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The sea-level rise has not been great enough to see in simple photos like your palm trees. The concern is based upon future predictions if the climate
keeps heating and the land-based ice keeps melting at the accelerating rates that are currently being measured.
GOT THAT?
[Edited on 7-22-2019 by SFandH]
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bajafam
Senior Nomad
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I do find amusement in that my children are more science minded intelligent than yourself. Denial energy? Lol. You're the one close minded to the
actual evidence of "science guys" or in reality terms, scientists. People who have dedicated their lives to the collection and analysis of actual
data, not palm tree picture anecdotes.
I do hope your offspring haven't been educated by you. Yikes. Again, I beg you to show me ANY person claiming scientific evidence via palm tree or
similar anecdote. The mere fact that it's only you is all the proof of absurdity and ignorance I need. Good gravy.
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bajafam
Senior Nomad
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The oceans cover 2/3s of the planet. Do you really think you can see the sea level rise in your tiny expanse of view? Do you really think that 150
years of data archived by scientists across the globe is fake and insignificant, but your palm tree is real and the most significant finding of the
past century and a half? How ridiculous are you? Lord, have mercy. Do you think the Earth is flat and 6,000 years old, too?
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
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The Chosen Palm
After 30+ years watching rising tides and shifting sands in Estero Percebu, one might conclude ............. W - T - F ?
If only we'd had a Palm Tree in place for a proper datum.
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bajafam
Senior Nomad
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LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
IF ONLY....
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bajafam
Senior Nomad
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Tidal gauges and satellite altimetry are obviously biased and skewed. What we need are more palm trees for David to take pictures of.
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