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LancairDriver
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Aeromexico still flying 737 max?
Aeromexico previously grounded their 737max aircraft. I wonder if they started flying again and if latest FAA announced max problems have affected
them. Customer confidence in Boeing is falling.
Here is a link to what Fishbuck warned about previously.
https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/boeing-engineer-says-cor...
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motoged
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Interesting opinion article.....not a surprise , really......standard corporate ideology.
Don't believe everything you think....
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Bajazly
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Because nothing is more important than short term shareholder value. Issues like this sure can’t be helping value much.
Believing is religion - Knowing is science
Harald Pietschmann
"Get off the beaten path and memories, friends and new techniques are developed"
Bajazly, August 2019
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MrBillM
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The Bottom Line is ...............
........... The Bottom Line ?
Seriously, though, it's a FACT that proper pilot training and competent pilot reactions would most
likely have avoided the (2) disastrous crashes given the many "incidents" that were handled. This entire grounding fiasco seems a potentially
financially-ruinous gross over-reaction.
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pacificobob
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Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM  | ........... The Bottom Line ?
Seriously, though, it's a FACT that proper pilot training and competent pilot reactions would most
likely have avoided the (2) disastrous crashes given the many "incidents" that were handled. This entire grounding fiasco seems a potentially
financially-ruinous gross over-reaction.
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X2 from a career pilot
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AKgringo
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A question for pilots
Are the differences between the standard 737, and the Max significant enough that it should have undergone more thorough trials before being
certified?
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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Bajazly
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| Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo | | Are the differences between the standard 737, and the Max significant enough that it should have undergone more thorough trials before being
certified? |
There ya go AK tryin to put regulations on free enterprise and disrupt the profit stream, those pesky certifications are expensive. We all know
corporations left alone will in the end self regulate and all will be just fine, don’t we?
Believing is religion - Knowing is science
Harald Pietschmann
"Get off the beaten path and memories, friends and new techniques are developed"
Bajazly, August 2019
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TMW
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A more thorough training of the pilots on the system in question would have probably prevented the crashes.
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SFandH
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Just telling the pilots that the system existed would have been a good start.
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MrBillM
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Ignorance is NOT Bliss ...........
........... When things are going awry in the sky.
A good link dating back to November 2018. It includes photos of the c.ockpit MCAS/Trim controls:
........https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-safety/what-is-the-boeing-737-max-maneuvering-characteristics-augmentation-system-mcas-jt610/
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weebray
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This problem is far more complex than some armchair pilots grant. As a pilot, I have been tested to the max with multiple problems with dire
consequences for error. The grounding by Boeing is proof that their systems were a MAJOR factor. Better trained pilots with more experience may have
handled things differently but let's not oversimplify and "with an air of superiority" blame it on pilot error.
Every beautiful beach in the world needs a few condo towers - NOT.
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Ron in BC
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I agree. I belong to a flying club with a couple of Max 8 captains and an FAA Max 8 test pilot. My impression is that their skill and training would
have let them have a better outcome. But it's still a big deal. Really amazing and shocking in some ways.
What a mess, hope the situation gets back on track but the repercussions and damage will be very long lasting.
Ron
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SFandH
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All Southwest Airlines airplanes are 737s, 34 are grounded, the most of any airline. I bet that eventually costs Boeing a bundle.
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pacificobob
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flight standards and training are to blame here. if the crew understood the system, we wouldn't be having this chat. too bad this blew back on
Boeing. this is what happens when they sell a/c to underfunded airlines in developing countries.
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LancairDriver
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Here is an example of the type of skills that are being taught and required to fly today’s modern aircraft. Unfortunately this has come at some
erosion of the basic physical flying skills that are still necessary but less attention is directed today. This is becoming more recognized in the
industry and is hopefully being integrated into the training. Here is a link to a ultra modern Lufthansa A380 landing at San Francisco.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENe89j89tBA
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weebray
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| Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob | | flight standards and training are to blame here. if the crew understood the system, we wouldn't be having this chat. too bad this blew back on
Boeing. this is what happens when they sell a/c to underfunded airlines in developing countries. |
Well, I just knew someone from Seattle would pop up here to give us their uninformed opinion. Boeing is not just culpable here they are responsible.
Fact is, the rush to compete with Airbus and do so without creating a new "type" was a management decision based on profit. Read the facts before you
start waving the Boeing flag. Changes are being made. More problems are being found. People are dead because of corporate profit motives. Boing is
in shame.
[Edited on 7-11-2019 by weebray]
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unbob
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How the Boeing 737 Max Disaster Looks to a Software Developer
https://spectrum.ieee.org/aerospace/aviation/how-the-boeing-...
"I'm too young to be this old!"
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weebray
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No one will actually read this article. I guess I've got too much time on my hands. But, if you did, you would see why Boeing is in shame. Not
their fault, it's a corporate "merica" thing. When you pour the meal to her the computer takes over for the pilot. As a pilot I think that's a bad
idea. Sure, there's a button.....
"Like someone with narcissistic personality disorder, MCAS gaslights the pilots. And it turns out badly for everyone. 'Raise the nose, HAL.'I’m
sorry, Dave, I’m afraid I can’t do that.' ”
Every beautiful beach in the world needs a few condo towers - NOT.
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SFandH
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I read the article, twice.
I think this is where the author pins the blame:
"It is astounding that no one who wrote the MCAS software for the 737 Max seems even to have raised the possibility of using multiple inputs,
including the opposite angle-of-attack sensor, in the computer’s determination of an impending stall."
His point being a failure of a single sensor would not initiate the nose down automatic command, as was the case, if there were multiple inputs.
People who write software do it as specified in the software requirements specification. The specification is written by senior engineers, not the
folks doing the coding.
The fundamental blame lies squarely on the shoulders of the engineers that failed to specify a more robust, redundant system, which is typical of
aircraft systems and could have been easily implemented since multiple sensors already exist.
IMHO
[Edited on 7-12-2019 by SFandH]
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MrBillM
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OK - MCAS BAD !
Focusing on the design deficiencies of the MCAS system is NOT really the point. There is general agreement regarding that problem. Those
deficiencies (including relying on a single sensor) do not change the FACT that flight crew awareness and training would have likely avoided the
consequences of the failure.
Virtually, EVERY current Airliner design (Boeing and Airbus) have been found to have design deficiencies which were encountered and addressed during
their respective duty-cycles. Assumptions made during design often didn't hold up in the real world. Most (but not all) were corrected without loss
of life.
That loss of life has been an unfortunate (Unavoidable) fact of life since commercial aviation began and will
continue.
Destroying Boeing won't accomplish anything other than boost Airbus at the expense of U.S. jobs. People will still die. Design
errors will still occur. Maintenance and pilot errors will still kill far more passengers and crew than design problems. Deregulation and
competition to fly the cheapest seat make cost-cutting de regueur. Especially, with third-world airlines more likely to cut corners in
maintenance and expensive simulator time. The ONLY place where today's flight crew get to practice their skills.
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