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Pacifico
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Quote: Originally posted by ncampion  |
Certainly not for your thought, Harald, as it is not aligned with your POV. You Believers are all the same, no opposing opinion has any validity.
Guess we'll just have to wait a couple decades to see. |
Exactly what I was thinking....
"Plan your life as if you are going to live forever. Live your life as if you are going to die tomorrow." - Carlos Fiesta
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caj13
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| Quote: Originally posted by ZipLine | "When there is speech that is completely forbidden and questions that are not allowed to be asked - you can assume they are true".
- Peter Thiel, at the 2019 Wriston lecture at the Manhattan Institute, Nov 14th, 2019.
Spoken by probably the smartest man in America - though I am sure there are some here who believe they tower above him in intellect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-IaSS0bbGU |
I question your judgment of "smartest man in America" but i agree - now all you have to do is get David to understand he is talking to him!
fingers in your ears shouting LALALA to avoid hearing truth and light!
and once again - you get your climate science from an "entrepreneur"?, who do you get your brain surgery from? your appliance repairman?
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ZipLine
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Neither he nor I claimed the quote was related to climate science.
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caj13
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| Quote: Originally posted by ncampion |
Certainly not for your thought, Harald, as it is not aligned with your POV. You Believers are all the same, no opposing opinion has any validity.
Guess we'll just have to wait a couple decades to see. |
Opinions do not carry the same weight as facts. And in this case it's one opinion against a hundred years of data - millions of data points, all
say the same thing - and your opinion doesn't negate the science, it just reveals how far you will go to ignore the truth!
where is your data? where are your climate models?, wher3e are youir temperature records? where are your sea level measurements?
what you call believers, in this case, are skeptics who have been looking at the data and research and have been convinced by a preponderance of the
evidence. On the other hand we have: a few conspiracy theory yahoos shouting all sorts of long ago disproved and laughably uninformed opinions,
backed by exactly zero science!
But you carry on - i understand the drill - when the facts are against you - the only thing you have left is to yell harder and try to distract -
so you carry on with that mission!
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caj13
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I'm sorry i thought that's what we were discussing. I assumed you wanted that quote applied to the discussion - but I guess not? so then why is it
in here?
and you and I both know he's a long time denier. at least he put his money where his mouth is and funds a non peer reviewd journal pretty much
dedicated to championing climate denial - and evolution, THAT'S CONSIDERED TO BE A JOKE BY REAL SCIENTISTS
NO DATA, NO RESEARCH, JUST SOME RIGHT WING YAHOOS SPOUTING OFF THEIR PERSONAL AGENDAS!
[Edited on 11-18-2019 by caj13]
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ZipLine
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Sorry - I forgot I was talking to idiots. I was hoping you might "get" the philosophical idea behind what he was saying. That could possibly be
applied to anything and everything. So never mind.
But then I realize I should assume you are smarter than him. I bow to your intellect, sir. Pardon me, please.
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caj13
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| Quote: Originally posted by ZipLine | Sorry - I forgot I was talking to idiots. I was hoping you might "get" the philosophical idea behind what he was saying. That could possibly be
applied to anything and everything. So never mind.
But then I realize I should assume you are smarter than him. I bow to your intellect, sir. Pardon me, please. |
Davids not going to take kindly to you calling him an idiot!
and do you know what a strawman is Zippy? One of the 25 logical fallacies?
could you show me anywhere, or anyplace where I claimed to be "smarter than him?
You can keep on trying to attack me personally - i get it, no way to attack the science, so you have to resort to personal attacks -
Now about those 10's of Millions of data points that say you and your hero are wrong - how do you plan on dealing with them?
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Pacifico
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| Quote: Originally posted by caj13 |
heres your author: Guy Sorman (born March 10, 1944, Nérac) is a French-American professor, columnist, author, and public intellectual in economics
and philosophy.
so now hurry off - I believe have scheduled your auto mechanic to fix your smile with dental implants - you don't want to be late for that
appointment! |
So??? The article is about his interview with Judith Curry. Did you even read it? Probably not...You were probably too busy conjuring up your smart
ass reply.
I don't disagree that the sea level is rising; it's just not an alarming rate in my opinion. The climate is warming as well...
You seem pretty pretentious, arrogant, and probably have a bloated ego...but hey, that's just how you come off on this forum to people who don't agree
with you.
"Plan your life as if you are going to live forever. Live your life as if you are going to die tomorrow." - Carlos Fiesta
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ZipLine
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Don't get your panties in a knot, caj10. Climate science and science in general is not binary. It's not yes or no. It is to what degree certain
things have an impact.
Certainly no one one would think we should chit on the earth and not clean it up. No? I've seen much of the world and I would like it to be clean and
pristine. I love this place.
I don't understand your freak out.
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caj13
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| Quote: Originally posted by Pacifico | | Quote: Originally posted by caj13 |
heres your author: Guy Sorman (born March 10, 1944, Nérac) is a French-American professor, columnist, author, and public intellectual in economics
and philosophy.
so now hurry off - I believe have scheduled your auto mechanic to fix your smile with dental implants - you don't want to be late for that
appointment! |
So??? The article is about his interview with Judith Curry. Did you even read it? Probably not...You were probably too busy conjuring up your smart
ass reply.
I don't disagree that the sea level is rising; it's just not an alarming rate in my opinion. The climate is warming as well...
You seem pretty pretentious, arrogant, and probably have a bloated ego...but hey, that's just how you come off on this forum to people who don't agree
with you. |
first as for your rate (AKA the DK argument) please educate yourself on rate change and feedback loops. If you don't understand those - you really
are going to be handicapped in trying to understand whats the big deal!
uh how i "come off" to other people - well I don't really care. if that's your criteria for judging my message "he's arrogant, so i can ignore his
logic and data" go ahead - keep on making yourself feel good by denigrating me - more power to you! but you and i both know that doesn't change
the facts - right!
actually i did read it, and I know of Judith Curry. she is not a climate denier, she simply believes there is to much uncertainty in the signal to
make the conclusions that have been made.
She has every right to that opinion, and I do consider it, but when 97 knowledgeable people tell me "yes its happening" and 3 more say - we can't
be sure - i am inclined to go with the 97. Not wait for the last 3 to come on board. Thats apparently where I differ from you, as you sit with
your fingers crossed, hoping for the 97 to be proven wrong. Notice Curry really does not have published data saying that climate change is not
happening, she says the current data are still unclear!
[Edited on 11-18-2019 by caj13]
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bajabuddha
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I don't know which is more comical in this thread...... the flat-earther's "logic" or those who argue with them. 
I don't have a BUCKET LIST, but I do have a F***- IT LIST a mile long!
86 - 45*
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4x4abc
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well, in order to argue with the palm tree tribe, you have to use their language
Harald Pietschmann
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MMc
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What is a real shame is the whole climate change went political a long time ago. Politics dictates which side you are on for many, some with a
critical thought process have changed their minds. The funny thing is many of the "man's responsibility deniers" agree that there is climate change.
If we could move on and start to implement the changes, maybe we could make a difference. We need to convince China and India there are better
solutions than oil and coal. Coal and oil are the low price leader these days.
"Never teach a pig to sing it frustrates you and annoys the pig" - W.C.Fields
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4x4abc
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| Quote: Originally posted by MMc | | What is a real shame is the whole climate change went political a long time ago. Politics dictates which side you are on for many, some with a
critical thought process have changed their minds. The funny thing is many of the "man's responsibility deniers" agree that there is climate change.
If we could move on and start to implement the changes, maybe we could make a difference. We need to convince China and India there are better
solutions than oil and coal. Coal and oil are the low price leader these days. |
you won't convince anyone
if there is a way to make money with improving CO2 (and some other stuff) then there will be cleaner air
No money? No action.
Harald Pietschmann
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc | | Quote: Originally posted by MMc | | What is a real shame is the whole climate change went political a long time ago. Politics dictates which side you are on for many, some with a
critical thought process have changed their minds. The funny thing is many of the "man's responsibility deniers" agree that there is climate change.
If we could move on and start to implement the changes, maybe we could make a difference. We need to convince China and India there are better
solutions than oil and coal. Coal and oil are the low price leader these days. |
you won't convince anyone
if there is a way to make money with improving CO2 (and some other stuff) then there will be cleaner air
No money? No action. |
Once gringos got a comfortable std of living, they all wanted to drive big cars, do everything big. Gringos are all driving full size pickups and
other gas guzzlers, living in too-large houses. Chinese and Indians are all gonna wanna drive f-350s too as soon as their incomes allow such.
Addicted to oil!
The world is f#cked! The human race will die off in a global hot house, rampant pollution, etc. If an asteroid doesn’t wipe us all out first.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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Cliffy
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Hello again :-)
Interesting how things go round and round, year after year
Interesting how some are of the opinion that unless one has an advanced degree in a certain subject their "opinion" has no weight. I guess it must
mean that one can not be educated in one discipline and then reeducated in another. Seems I know of a person who by that reasoning has no business in
the field of paleontology as he has no degree in that subject yet he knows enough about it to stand with anyone in the field AND he even has a newly
found dinosaur named after him. But I digress.
Seems there is currently an Adjunct Professor that was fired from her position because she can prove that the current lack of northern ice has not had
a deleterious affect on polar bears (quite the contrary) as the current "educated" thinking on "Global Change" is predicting. Her work was refused
even for a peer review because it was contra to "established" thinking.
Seem that someone else in under the gun for countering the claims of walruses being "forced" into large groups on small islands up north and then
jumping off high cliffs to their death due to - again- "climate change". A difference of opinion (with relating data and info) yet soundly denounced
due to the differing opinion. Silence the opposition at all costs.
I still come back to the question of how many climate models are there out there and how many have actually "predicted" what is actually happening?
Only one IIRC out of what/ 22, 23 or so models?
Once again we are back to the position of in the 60s it was "global cooling and an Ice Age was a comin'", later it was global warming and the earth
was going to die before our eyes and then when global warming couldn't be substantiated the name was changed to "Global Change" and the argument was
just recycled again.
I agree with climate change. Climate has always changed on the earth but what and how much affect do we, as humans, have on it or to what affect can
we change it is THE question. The earth has a remarkable affinity to heal itself.
We can go back and review all the early literature and also the anomalies that were found in the early data collection that even the first guy in
charge agreed that his data was suspect.
Some even say we are in a cooling trend that might even be the start of a mini Ice Age. Oh, but maybe they aren't of the elite academia crowd that
know everything. Let's just disavow what they have to say and silence them instead of having a discussion
For me, too little data (some suspect) over too little of a time period compared to the age of the earth to make any valid predictions. And that's all
they are- predictions. When you can "predict" next months weather day by day with 95% accuracy then maybe I'll believe in your predictions of the
demise of the earth.
Then again, maybe AOC is correct and the earth will end in 10 years.
I think I hear Chicken Little calling :-)
You chose your position in life today by what YOU did yesterday
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MMc
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Goat, that you are a American makes you a 1% of the riches of the world.
You are such a hypocrite.
| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc | | Quote: Originally posted by MMc | | What is a real shame is the whole climate change went political a long time ago. Politics dictates which side you are on for many, some with a
critical thought process have changed their minds. The funny thing is many of the "man's responsibility deniers" agree that there is climate change.
If we could move on and start to implement the changes, maybe we could make a difference. We need to convince China and India there are better
solutions than oil and coal. Coal and oil are the low price leader these days. |
you won't convince anyone
if there is a way to make money with improving CO2 (and some other stuff) then there will be cleaner air
No money? No action. |
Once gringos got a comfortable std of living, they all wanted to drive big cars, do everything big. Gringos are all driving full size pickups and
other gas guzzlers, living in too-large houses. Chinese and Indians are all gonna wanna drive f-350s too as soon as their incomes allow such.
Addicted to oil!
The world is f#cked! The human race will die off in a global hot house, rampant pollution, etc. If an asteroid doesn’t wipe us all out first.
|
"Never teach a pig to sing it frustrates you and annoys the pig" - W.C.Fields
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LancairDriver
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The world is full of educated fools who have large followings that worship their credentials. This has never been more apparent than it is presently.
There are simply too many world inhabitants consuming an unsustainable amount of resources and has long since passed the point of no return. Goat has
come to the most logical conclusion as to the ultimate world disposition in my opinion. Just when is anyone’s guess.
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caj13
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Clify, good to have you back -
to address some of your points: | Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy | Hello again :-)
Interesting how things go round and round, year after year
Interesting how some are of the opinion that unless one has an advanced degree in a certain subject their "opinion" has no weight. I guess it must
mean that one can not be educated in one discipline and then reeducated in another. Seems I know of a person who by that reasoning has no business in
the field of paleontology as he has no degree in that subject yet he knows enough about it to stand with anyone in the field AND he even has a newly
found dinosaur named after him. But I digress.
|
The key here is Reeducate himself Cliffy - this guy doing that - that's fantastic, all it took was a commitment to learning and becoming an expert!
unfortunately, here in this forum, we are not talking about individuals interested in educating themselves. just the contrary - we are dealing
with those who are willfully ignorant - and proud of it. They studiously avoid even looking at any data or study or evidence that they may be wrong.
When presented with the opportunity to educate themselves, they typically turn to personal attacks on those pointing out their lack of knowledge on
the subject, and their determined effort to remain uneducated on the subject!
| Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy | Hello again :-)
Seems there is currently an Adjunct Professor that was fired from her position because she can prove that the current lack of northern ice has not had
a deleterious affect on polar bears (quite the contrary) as the current "educated" thinking on "Global Change" is predicting. Her work was refused
even for a peer review because it was contra to "established" thinking.
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Can you give me sources for this story Cliffy?
I'd really like to know the whole story here. I do know there is significant data and research that shows detrimental effects on polar bears - but
I'm not familiar with this woman's work. I would like to see it for myself.
It seems like the story you are telling - well I'm not sure she was fired because she can prove that global warming is beneficial to the bears.
And as for her work being rejected by peer review - first of all, that happens all the time - rejection rates of peer reviewed journals are quite
high - actually Nature has a 93% rejection rate, Science has a 97% rejection rate - that is the point of peer review. Apparently she could not
convince the scientists who reviewed it that here data was either accurate, or analyzed properly, or collected properly etc. Scientific papers are
not rejected for their conclusions - they are rejected because they did something wrong in their methods etc. so if you could please provide me with
a starting place, I will research this story and report back here!
| Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy |
Seem that someone else in under the gun for countering the claims of walruses being "forced" into large groups on small islands up north and then
jumping off high cliffs to their death due to - again- "climate change". A difference of opinion (with relating data and info) yet soundly denounced
due to the differing opinion. Silence the opposition at all costs.
|
Ok so once again, can I ask for references to this story - i want to look into it, do a bit of my own secondary research, i will report back!
| Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy |
I still come back to the question of how many climate models are there out there and how many have actually "predicted" what is actually happening?
Only one IIRC out of what/ 22, 23 or so models?
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Actually most models have made pretty accurate predictions - do you want to look at a specific set/ which ones? and what is your standard of
accuracy? ie how close does it need to be for you to judge it as accurate?
| Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy |
Once again we are back to the position of in the 60s it was "global cooling and an Ice Age was a comin'", later it was global warming and the earth
was going to die before our eyes and then when global warming couldn't be substantiated the name was changed to "Global Change" and the argument was
just recycled again.
|
Now you are veering off the track of discussion into mindless parroting of previously debunked nonsense claims made by your demigod Heller - the Jr
High school substitute teacher, and others who are unqualified but on the payroll of big oil. This claim is made ad infinitum by people with no
knowledge of what they are parroting! Had you actually taken the time to research this claim, you would have found out it was your arch-enemy "the
mainstream media" who was making the ice age predictions - Turns out science - just the opposite, most papers published back then actually
predicted global warming - how about that -
https://skepticalscience.com/ice-age-predictions-in-1970s-in...
and if you would rather not read about it - heres a video addressing that nonsensical "ice age in the 70s claim"
https://www.climate.gov/teaching/resources/70s-they-said-the...
| Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy |
I agree with climate change. Climate has always changed on the earth but what and how much affect do we, as humans, have on it or to what affect can
we change it is THE question. The earth has a remarkable affinity to heal itself.
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earth can heal itself if we stop insulting it. But thinking the earth will deal with this is like a smoker continuing to smoke when they have lung
cancer - because - hey the human body can heal itself! lets give earth a chance!
| Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy |
We can go back and review all the early literature and also the anomalies that were found in the early data collection that even the first guy in
charge agreed that his data was suspect.
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That's kind of the way science works - early findings are checked and verified by continuing and expanding research. thats what gives science it's
power! so is all of the current data suspect as well? if so - specifically why? collected wrong? analyzed wrong? what is it that makes it
suspect?
| Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy |
Some even say we are in a cooling trend that might even be the start of a mini Ice Age. Oh, but maybe they aren't of the elite academia crowd that
know everything. Let's just disavow what they have to say and silence them instead of having a discussion
|
This has been debunked many times - cherry-picked data from one specific starting point - look back 1 year or forward one year and all this fairy
castle claim comes crashing down. I have explained that here many times - it amazes me how people keep spouting this nonsense when they know its BS.
Your feelings for the educated individuals in this field is noted. You believe anyone who says something that you agree with without questioning.
but when presented facts, information, historical context, data demonstrating your belief is wrong - you immediately go to "those elitists don't
know anything"!
Tough way to live your life - depending on your mail delivery person to fix your computer!
cognitive dissonance - look it up!
| Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy |
For me, too little data (some suspect) over too little of a time period compared to the age of the earth to make any valid predictions. And that's all
they are- predictions. When you can "predict" next months weather day by day with 95% accuracy then maybe I'll believe in your predictions of the
demise of the earth.
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ah - once again, the issue with not knowing the difference between climate and weather. and you use that ignorance as a building point for your
arguments - maybe you ought to rethink that strategy!
How much data would you need? tens of millions of data points spread across 750 million years of earths history?. I'm just curious as to what is
your tipping point? how much more data - over how long of a period would be adequate for you?
https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/data-access/paleoclimatology-data
| Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy |
Then again, maybe AOC is correct and the earth will end in 10 years.
I think I hear Chicken Little calling :-)
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I can not comment on your and so many others' fascination with AOC, not sure why you spend so much time staring at her image and ????
she's not a climate scientist - shes a politician. I get my climate science from climate scientists - I guess that's where we differ!
[Edited on 11-19-2019 by caj13]
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chuckie
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I am completely out of Turtle soup.......
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