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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow
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expatriates
I agree with you totally about how mexicans feel about all of us gringos that includes jr who seems to think he is above most of us other gringos.
Its like the jerry jeff walker (The pot can't call the kettle black). I also think you cannot lump all mexicans in the same pot. Where I live in La
Paz the majority of the Mexican people are well educated and make a decent living I feel living here there is very little difference than living in
gringolandia, Maybe iv'e been here too long but its my home and i'm comfortable with it.
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Moriarty ??
Quote:
I not only agree with Jesse but I can voutch for him speaking for the Moriarty of the Mexicans here in Baja.
--------------------------------------------------------
That's just the point. We don't want someone who's speaking for the "Moriarty". He was the BAD guy, remember ? And I thought Sherlock Holmes had
seen to his death. Is he still alive and well in Mexico ?
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64532
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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JR said: "...Its more like an invitation to riff raff who seem to frequent this board more and more."
That is pretty sad you think that way. Either you are one of the riff raff or you consider yourself BETTER than the Nomads you think so little of.
Those who have a computer (or WebTV) to gain knowledge about a place (like Baja California) or those who read books about Baja are at least taking the
time to try and understand her.
That, to me, makes them far above ordinary riff raff... Because you consider us Nomads as riff raff and you as superior, then that explains your
condensending posts. I guess you either want to scare us from going to Baja or shame us out of Baja, now that you are planted there.
Do you understand there is a time line, and they overlap? What I mean is, your Baja love started (I think) when you worked on the Titanic movie set,
and decided to live near it. Mine started as a child who was captivated by Baja California. Others may just be starting their love of Baja and are
beginning to learn about it.
No Nomad is better or worse for wanting to love Baja when they discover it, just because their time line began different then yours.
Because Baja is a treasure that brings out the best in us Nomads, we should treat it like this treasure... There are great places to see, photograph,
hike, drive, camp. If people just see it as a desert, and no need to preserve it, then they trash or ignore it.
I choose to show that Baja has great things to see and save. Every dirt road in Baja goes 'somewhere'... usually somewhere really great. The more of
us Baja Nomads that are aware of great places for now and future trips, the more will want to go there and see them. Mexico wants us to come south,
and as long as there are places that attract us, it is in Mexico's best interest to preserve these places for us to see.
Keeping secret old mission sites has only shown locals that the ruins have no use except to provide building material for new houses or livestock
corrals. But, tell interested Baja travels where a historic site is, and that site has far more value being untouched or preserved. The longer a site
is left standing, the longer it will be visited by history buffs (who spend money on their trips).
The Mexicans are seeing this, and doing something to promote and save historic sites... it is good for them and for us. Keeping any place a secret
will only mean it is ignored and allowed to be destroyed.
The El Marmol onyx schoolhouse was being broken down and carted off (even though tons of onyx blocks lay all over the area) until me, on Amigos de
Baja made quite a stink after Lorenzo and I went there and photographed the building in 2000. Tim Walker followed us in doing a large photo web page
as well. A fence has since been erected and the destruction has halted.
You see, unmentioned, nobody cared... Publicized, people came forward and did something good.
GPS is just a modern version of using odometer readings for directions... except they are an added cost. Gang bangers and whoever with spray paint
cans are not using a GPS to find places to tag. Good people who read Baja Nomad or my web site's GPS page (or any of the other GPS pages or books) are
not spray painting either. We have these things because we love being out there in the beautiful Baja desert, exploring, seeing with our own eyes
places mentioned on line or in books.
Mexico's INAH has given Jack Swords authority to go on any land to photograph, GPS, and document historic sites... I am assisting Jack, as are others.
We want the destruction to end, we want the locals to know there is value in not carting off bricks from a ruin, we want our children and their
children to appreciate Baja and have something for them to see as well.
[Edited on 3-26-2005 by David K]
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4863
Registered: 2-2-2003
Member Is Offline
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Well, that was certainly a mouthful!
And I know for a fact that some people you name drop know better than to share much information with you.
And I also find it very typical of gringos who live in gringo canadian enclaves to judge others based on what their so called friends tell them. You
should hear what he says about you there comitan.
And for you to base your knowledge of the mexican people on El Centenario is also quite typical. Maybe you should go for a drive one day and see a
real mexican community.
Here goes the coop again, because J.R. lives there and knows of what he speaks, those that don't or spend their time gossiping with other P-nches
just like them in Baja get riled when they feel that the huarache fits.
Too bad but, there you have it.
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow
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Ex Pats
JR I promised myself I wouldn't get into a confrontation with you, because (It's) not worth it.
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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yankeeirishman
Banned
Posts: 1070
Registered: 3-5-2004
Location: Kalifornia
Member Is Offline
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Whoa! "Dont give"?
I don?t think that the kids of the poorer villages really give a damn if the clothes, sports gear, whatever...is secondhand. I?ve always given stuff
to the underprivileged, and they really like getting it. But don?t get me wrong. I?ve never bribed for friendship with the goods I give away. Hope you
ALL will always give a kid a glimmer of hope and pride.
What control freaks there are here. Don\'t believe that post you just read!
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BajaDave
Junior Nomad
Posts: 76
Registered: 9-2-2003
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
I not only agree with Jesse but I can voutch for him speaking for the Mojrirty of the Mexicans here in Baja. they will be polite to you because that
is there nature. they will politely except your trinket gifts and second hand clothes but laugh about you to there Friends and family. many people
really need to learn about the culture here. it is a beautiful one once you understand it and only then can you hope to earn the respect of the people
here.
I was as guilty as the rest when I first visited and even for years after I lived here. I brought gifts and presents for people all the time and now I
see how foolish I was and how I insulted the people with my I thought Kindness.
[Edited on 3-27-2005 by Bruce R Leech] |
Would you be so kind as to elaborate a bit about how you were inadvertantly causing insult through your actions (gifting), so as to help others from
doing the same?
Thank you. I do not mean to put you on the spot.
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
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>>>Would you be so kind as to elaborate a bit about how you were inadvertantly causing insult through your actions (gifting), so as to help others
from doing the same?
With Bruce Leech's permission I will try to answer this question.
It's a matter of pride and dignity. As you know, this is greatly valued in the Latin cultures. A man's self esteem is lowered when he receives
charity.
Some people accept charity well, others develop a sense of resentment. You can equate it to welfare in the US. Many argue that welfare in the US
actually does more harm than good because it denies a sense of pride that comes from earning a living.
And it there's one thing I have learned about the Latino male, it's that pride and self esteem is way up there in term of values. Right next to
devotion to family.
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
Member Is Offline
Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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thanks Skipjack Joe. I will endorse your answer as my opinion also. You are a better writer than I. but seams we share some thoughts on Baja customs.
nice to meet you
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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TMW
Select Nomad
Posts: 10659
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Member Is Offline
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Giving clothing, food etc. to a church would not hurt their pride and is welcomed. Same for an orphanage.
Give the men cervaza and everything else to the women and children.
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Tucker
Senior Nomad
Posts: 664
Registered: 10-31-2002
Location: El Centenario, BCS
Member Is Offline
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I grew up in an incredibly poor situation......
when folks would come around offering their castoff things I, even at five or six years old, resented it!
\"I think it would be a good idea.\"
-- Mahatma Gandhi, when asked what he thought of Western civilization
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Guilty Again
Now I find out that I'm guilty of another Baja Culture sin. For Twenty-Five years, I've been bringing down all sorts of gifts to hand out to the
Adults and Children. In all of that time, though, I've never encountered any resentment. I've got large Rubbermaid Containers filled with small toys
and dolls that I hand out and the Kids along with their parents seem very happy. Whenever I'm out shopping I look for mark downs and buy up Jeans,
Shirts, etc to take South. I usually ask one of my Mexican friends to hand them out to whoever he knows that might be able to use them. That way I
am not embarrassing them. I've also found that a great place to take Children's toys, coloring books and crayons are the Medical Clinics, in my case,
St. Johns Infirmary in San Felipe. They hand them out to their child patients.
I will, no doubt, continue to do this for as long as I'm alive and living down there and I could care less what anyone else thinks about it.
One thing I don't do is give used clothing, etc away directly. That does seem a little rude so I give it to the Church to do with as they deem best.
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Tucker
Senior Nomad
Posts: 664
Registered: 10-31-2002
Location: El Centenario, BCS
Member Is Offline
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Hey Bill.....
It's different strokes for different folks, most of my siblings were grateful.
\"I think it would be a good idea.\"
-- Mahatma Gandhi, when asked what he thought of Western civilization
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baitcast
Super Nomad
Posts: 1785
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: kingman AZ.
Member Is Offline
Mood: good
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Well here it is
Easter and DK has come down off the mountain to explain to us that he,s here to save BAJA "Jimmy Smith told him that he was the bridge to
deliver the memories of BAJA,s past"......I feel a lot better now knowing everything is going to be fine!
Then he says "I share your concern and will join you in trying to keep BAJA PURE".Give me a brake!
He,s daddy took him for a ride down the road in 67 when he was a pup and now he comes back as our saviour and teacher for all things BAJA.
BAITCAST
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15938
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Everchangin'
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JESSE said,
| Quote: |
who the hell cares if a whole generation goes to hell. I am so happy that so many come here and think that their dollars cleans them of any
responsability, after all, its not your fault that the goverment screws the people here right?
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you're right, it's not my fault. i couldn't control to whom or where i was born. why should i be made to feel like i'm doing someone a dis-service by
arriving full of excitement, without a cloud of dust, but eager to share a smile and maybe a few things someone may or may not need.
last time down part of the haul was a trash bag FULL of toys for 1-6 year olds. the family we "disrespected" had no kids, but in three days time,
everyone who stopped by took a handful of toys for their kids. i never saw a scowl.
but then again, i am GRINGO
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
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Giving clothes and toys and whatever is not a problem, if you guys want to do that, thats great, i am sorry if my response gave the impression that i
dont think doing that is right. But trust me when i tell you, people can tell when someone truly offers his friendship, and no truckload of gifts is
ever going to be valued more than a true friendship.
[Edited on 3-27-2005 by JESSE]
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yankeeirishman
Banned
Posts: 1070
Registered: 3-5-2004
Location: Kalifornia
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | "St. Johns Infirmary in San Felipe".
**What street is this located on?
"I will, no doubt, continue to do this for as long as I'm alive and living down there and I could care less what anyone else thinks about it".
**Yeeeeeeeha Billy Boy!!!! I'm with you !
One thing I don't do is give used clothing, etc away directly. That does seem a little rude so I give it to the Church to do with as they deem best.
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mike odell
Nomad
Posts: 267
Registered: 12-17-2002
Location: La Ribera BCS
Member Is Offline
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yankeeirishman,
Dont much give a rats +++what some of this Riedo is about, I appreciate what people like you do and so do most others! Continue on and God Bless!
I have found that to give stuff to the ranch people waaay off the beaten path,
is much apreciated, sit down with them, after they, and they always do, offer a cup of strong black coffee, talk a little about where your from, and
what about the weather? Are the ganados gonna be ok until rain? No gift is to large or too small or if it comes from your heart! We have a small
rancho high up, I won't say where right now and when we go up the nieghbors aways come by when they here the truck coming up the valley, we basicaly
always bring some clothes and stuff that is appreciated, Once in a while we give unusual stuff like something cold!
We are not Santa, just friends. I think the same thing about you my friend and some others, but not all!!
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
Member Is Offline
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"St. Johns Infirmary in San Felipe". is located right next to the Police Station.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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yankeeirishman
Banned
Posts: 1070
Registered: 3-5-2004
Location: Kalifornia
Member Is Offline
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Bajalou.....thanks for that info. Think I will check out the place on my next arrival.
mike odell....fact is I got a lot of "hand me downs and charity" when I was a kid. Thanks to the Shriners and the Los Angeles County hospital.... I
got my hearing restored at age 8. The American Red Cross gave me help, as I was in need to reach my family at age 19. Pride was never an issue with
me! Like so many here on this forum?damn near everyone?have basically said, ?I?ve helped the Folks of Baja and will still?.
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