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Ken Cooke
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Junípero Serra statues
I just read that the J. Serra statue fell this weekend in Downtown Los Angeles. Serra was a symbol of,"Mass incarceration" as the article went on to
explain. Are there Junípero Serra statues south of the border as they are/were here in Alta California?
Link to story/video: https://abc7.com/junipero-serra-statue-toppled-downtown-la-c...
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Ken Cooke
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This time in San Francisco
Another Junípero Serra statue fell in San Francisco this past Friday. Momentum is building against Serra's statues.
Link: https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/after-st-junipero-se...
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motoged
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Racist history and current practices are sure getting the attention long overdue, as you well know, Ken.
I am sure some Nomads will come to the rescue of their pigeon roosts with their form of logic and rationalizing.
Don't believe everything you think....
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Ken Cooke
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Quote: Originally posted by motoged  | Racist history and current practices are sure getting the attention long overdue, as you well know, Ken.
I am sure some Nomads will come to the rescue of their pigeon roosts with their form of logic and rationalizing. |
I am sure of it, Ged. Serra allegedly, "Discovered" the Californias while establishing a method for, "...Mass incarceration" that is still utilized
today..." is what I learned from the two articles I have read just now. It will be interesting to see where this continues and how it develops as
there is pent up anger over the death of George Floyd and this anger is now spilling over in several new directions.
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Ken Cooke
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"Modern Controversy"
Modern controversy
Toppling and decapitation of Serra statues
On June 20, 2020, a crowd of indigenous elders and young people gathered in downtown, Los Angeles, to witness the toppling of Serra's statue at Father
Sera Park near Olvera Street. Burning sage, speaking of their ancestors and chanting, "Take it down!" the crowd watched as activists tied a rope
around Serra's statue to rip it from its pedestal. Erected by the Knights of Columbus in 1932, the statue of Serra had become a symbol of Spanish
colonization in which Native Americans, prohibited from practicing their customs and religion, were beaten when they tried to escape the church-run
missions.[94]
On June 19 2020, activists in San Francisco's Golden Gate Park toppled a 30-foot replica of Serra, wrapped in a friar cloak and gripping a large
cross. Once the statue fell red paint was poured on it and phrases including "Stolen Land", "Olone Land", and "Decolonize" were spray painted on the
pedestal where the founder of Spanish Missions previously stood. [95]
On September 12, 2017, Santa Barbara police reported a statue of Serra located at southern California's Santa Barbara mission had been decapitated and
covered with red paint.[96]
In October, 2015, a week after the Catholic Church canonized Serra, Serra's statue in Monterey was decapitated.[97]
Native Americans objected to the Catholic Church's canonization of Serra, charging the priest "directed and approved of the torture and enslavement of
Natives" at missions that served as both religious and military installations.
link to article and sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junipero_Serra
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Ken Cooke
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Take a guess. This board suffers from some major immaturity. As the thread mentions, there has been increased pressure on statues placed in public
spaces. My question is whether many of these statues will stand the test of time as their history is less shrouded in ambiguity thanks to the the
ubiquity of smartphones, websites like Wikipedia, Twitter, Facebook groups, and the movement, in general. This can either be a mature discussion or a
childish fight in the sandbox.
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BajaBlanca
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I debated back and forth quite a while about removal of the Statues. Part of me considered them ART as well as HISTORY but as we educate ourselves
about the truth behind the folks the statues represent, it becomes crystal clear that some figures simply do not deserve to be venerated. Do not
deserve to have public monies spent to preserve them.
Of course history cannot be erased but this is a chance for us to right some wrongs.
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paranewbi
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| Quote: Originally posted by BajaBlanca | I debated back and forth quite a while about removal of the Statues. Part of me considered them ART as well as HISTORY but as we educate ourselves
about the truth behind the folks the statues represent, it becomes crystal clear that some figures simply do not deserve to be venerated. Do not
deserve to have public monies spent to preserve them.
Of course history cannot be erased but this is a chance for us to right some wrongs.
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Sorry Blanca, I have to disagree. The 'history' being taught in schools at all levels is biased and that influence in our children is daunting. When a
teen doesn't know who the N-zi's were, they become anyone...
A memorial to the Jews who died in the holocaust was toppled last night in San Diego. Do we want to forget that 'history'?
And who decides what 'figures' are venerated?
[Edited on 6-22-2020 by paranewbi]
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by paranewbi |
A memorial to the Jews who died in the holocaust was toppled last night in San Diego. Do we want to forget that 'history'?
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Where/when did this happen in San Diego? Can’t find anything in the news.
But does sound like something that would happen in Klantee, or most anywhere in East County for that matter
[Edited on 6-22-2020 by mtgoat666]
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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paranewbi
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | Quote: Originally posted by paranewbi |
A memorial to the Jews who died in the holocaust was toppled last night in San Diego. Do we want to forget that 'history'?
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Where/when did this happen in San Diego? Can’t find anything in the news.
But does sound like something that would happen in Klantee, or most anywhere in East County for that matter
[Edited on 6-22-2020 by mtgoat666] |
Won't hide from my misprints like others... my citation of San Diego was mis-typed, it actually was Santa Rosa, California.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/memorial-dedicated-to-holocau...
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SFandH
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| Quote: Originally posted by BajaBlanca | I debated back and forth quite a while about removal of the Statues. Part of me considered them ART as well as HISTORY but as we educate ourselves
about the truth behind the folks the statues represent, it becomes crystal clear that some figures simply do not deserve to be venerated. Do not
deserve to have public monies spent to preserve them.
Of course history cannot be erased but this is a chance for us to right some wrongs.
|
It is unfortunate to lose the aesthetic aspect. Perhaps names could be removed and the statues left standing simply for the aesthetics.
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paranewbi
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"Every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted,
every statue and street and building has been renamed, every date has been altered...History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in
which the Party is always right."
-- 1984, George Orwell
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motoged
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| Quote: Originally posted by SFandH |
[/rquote]
It is unfortunate to lose the aesthetic aspect. Perhaps names could be removed and the statues left standing simply for the aesthetics.
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You are joking..... aren't you ... 
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/22/us/new-york-theodore-roosevelt-statue-removal-trnd/index.html
[Edited on 6-22-2020 by motoged]
Don't believe everything you think....
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SFandH
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No I wasn't joking. I was considering the artistic aspect that was mentioned. Thanks for the link. I'm all for the elimination of tributes to the
confederacy. Initially, I'd say the removal of the Roosevelt statue is going too far. But I might change my opinion.
What do you think? You didn't voice an opinion.
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motoged
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My opinion was expressed at beginning of this thread.
Ethnic bigotry, hate, the notions of slavery and white privilege are distasteful to me. I learned as a child that these ways of thinking and behaving
are simply wrong.
It is a very short conversation. 
Don't believe everything you think....
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SFandH
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| Quote: Originally posted by motoged | My opinion was expressed at beginning of this thread.
Ethnic bigotry, hate, the notions of slavery and white privilege are distasteful to me. I learned as a child that these ways of thinking and behaving
are simply wrong.
It is a very short conversation. |
OK, but I was asking your opinion of the Roosevelt statue. I looked at more images and I've changed my mind. It does depict white supremacy. But, I'd
like to see it replaced with a piece of art of equal aesthetic quality without racial implications.
https://www.axios.com/american-museum-natural-history-roosev...
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motoged
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I can't see the aesthetics in a symbol of oppression.
The nazzzis wrecked the swastika symbol (which was previously a spiritual symbol for some cultures).... it's aesthetics are history.
The shift being presented these days will certainly be a stretch for some folks....
What type of imagery do you think would be appropriate to represent enlightened values?
[Edited on 6-22-2020 by motoged]
Don't believe everything you think....
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bajaric
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Compared to the behavior of the average conquistador, the missionaries were Saints!
lol
[Edited on 6-22-2020 by bajaric]
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ncampion
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I'm sorry, I'm a little confused. Explain to me how destroying public property makes life better for any of the "oppressed" people who live in the
US? In fact, explain to me exactly how these people are oppressed.
Living Large in Loreto. Off-grid and happy.
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motoged
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| Quote: Originally posted by ncampion | | I'm sorry, I'm a little confused. Explain to me how destroying public property makes life better for any of the "oppressed" people who live in the
US? In fact, explain to me exactly how these people are oppressed. |
Don't hide behind "I am confused" BS..... your opinion and position is clear.
Don't believe everything you think....
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