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SFandH
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Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck  |
Whereas the ones i know have a history of developing treatments that were not approved until they underwent the full 3 years of testing ..........
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Clearly not possible when trying to stop a pandemic. But I suppose anybody that demands scientific rigor can wait three years to get vaccinated.......
I admire the scientists that developed these safe and effective vaccines in record time. Truly the heroes of the day.
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John Harper
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Not if this virus mutates again and again. That's why we don't have herd immunity for the flu or common cold. New strains evolve continuously.
We never got to "herd immunity" for smallpox or polio. They were eradicated through rigorous vaccination protocols.
John
[Edited on 7-23-2021 by John Harper]
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4x4abc
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Posts: 4163
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Location: La Paz, BCS
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Mood: happy - always
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government published today - 108,000 of the 300,000+ in La Paz are vaccinated.
They are vaccinating 10,000 every day.
They are already in the 18+ years segment
looks good for vaccination
death rate at 15 per day right now
very high
no numbers for Los Cabos, very bad from what I hear from doctor friends
Delta at 85%
lotsa kids dying
party time is over
Harald Pietschmann
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caj13
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So JD - You wrote:
"Whereas the ones i know have a history of developing treatments that were not approved until they underwent the full 3 years of testing and then only
after they were subjected to in depth scientific challenges by their peers when they presented them to symposiums and their results came under
critical questioning. Science when it works best welcomes critical questioning, does not attempt to prevent it as we are seeing being applied at
present."
There are very specific reasons these vaccines were developed tested and distributed on such a fast timetable - the science was NOT compromised.
First of all the process of developing MRNA vaccines is much shorter than traditional vaccines. conceptually very simple, get the DNA of the virus
- we can do that literally overnight. Then because we know the RNA codes, essentially we can build a 3D computer model of the virus - again in a
matter of hours,
.
From there the spike proteins are identified - they are the parts of the virus that allows it to attack your cells. Again, thats only a couple of
days, maybe weeks if there are problems.
Because the vaccine is simply the RNA code to build a specific shaped protein (the spike protein) it can be quickly mass produced in labs in large
amounts (conventional vaccines are traditionally grown in eggs, and it takes months).
You put that RNA into your body (the vaccine) - the cells there pick it up - read the code, and build the spike proteins - which at that stage are
harmless - the rest of the virus is missing.
Once your immune system sees the spike proteins, it builds destroyer / inactivator cells to take out (attach and inactivate) the spike proteins. So
now, when the virus does infect you, your immune system is pre-loaded - its looking for those spike proteins on the surface of the virus, and it
attaches to them - so the virus cannot "dock to, and infect the cells of your body.
Huge amounts of time saved identifying the virus, and the process to develop is very simple and fast. The original stages of testing testing was
about the same amount as previous vaccines in that stage of development - but the study groups were able to be filled up much faster because of many
volunteers, so that sped up the process as well.
The process was shortcut in another way - Production. So the vaccines in the trials - instead of waiting for the end of the trials = they amped up
production immediately - so as soon as it got emergency approval, it was ready to ship. If the trial went badly - obviously the production run
would have been destroyed.
full approval of the vaccine will be within 1 or 2 months tops. data are showing it to be very effective, and safer than most other vaccines
currently approved and available.
Just as an aside, once that full approval comes, then you will have to make a decision - because at that point - companies, - organizations -
schools - public events - etc - they can each legally require vaccines to participate.
So your "personal freedom" choice becomes - OK I can't go to the bar, or to the footbal game, or wherever because I'm not vaccinated - but thats my
choice!
[Edited on 7-23-2021 by caj13]
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John Harper
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It's not just the 1950's "Beaver Cleaver" culture these people long for, it's also pre-DNA science.
Wind, Earth, Fire, and Water. The four elements of nature. All disease is caused by evil spirits and vapors. Eat your fruits and vegetables, get
plenty of fresh air. That's all there is to it. What's the problem?
John
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RFClark
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John,
I’ve got 2 words for you! Waldorf Schools! That’s where the “better educated Liberal anti-vaxers sent their unvaccinated kids pre COVID! Were
they looking for “The Beaver” too?
Talk about the “Public Good” is cheap! P.S. most Like Clinton, Obama and Biden never served either!
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AKgringo
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A 1950s TV show; https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0050032/
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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RFClark
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AK,
The show was “Leave it to Beaver” The “Beaver’s” family name was Cleaver
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SFandH
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This thread is being destroyed.
Here's the title guys:
BC and BCS COVID-19 Active Cases
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Ateo
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This website has no moderator. It continues to be the Wild West of Baja. Things go way off topic often.That is the nature of Baja Nomad. The
personality. The essence. It's a bummer, yes.
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SFandH
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https://www.gob.mx/salud/prensa/307-proximo-lunes-entra-en-v...
Next Monday, July 26, the update of the Epidemic Risk Traffic Light will take effect until Sunday, August 8. Three entities will be in green, 15 in
yellow, 13 in orange and one in red, in accordance with the new risk measurement guideline agreed by the Ministry of Health, the state governments and
Mexico City.
Aguascalientes, Chiapas and Coahuila will be in green, while Baja California, Campeche, Chihuahua, Durango, Guanajuato, Michoacán, Morelos, Puebla,
Querétaro, San Luis Potosí, Sonora, Tabasco, Tlaxcala, Yucatán and Zacatecas, in yellow.
The entities that will be in orange for the next two weeks are Baja California Sur, Mexico City, Colima, State of Mexico, Guerrero Hidalgo, Jalisco,
Nayarit, Nuevo León, Oaxaca, Quintana Roo, Tamaulipas and Veracruz, while Sinaloa is the only state that will be in red.
Regarding the advance in vaccination, with a cut-off of 9:00 p.m. on Thursday, July 22, one million 376 thousand 213 doses were applied, for a
cumulative of 58 million 249 thousand 143 biologicals since December 24, 2020.
In Mexico, 40 million 632 thousand 434 people have received at least one dose of the vaccine, of which 23 million 121 thousand 276, representing 57
percent of the immunized population, have a complete scheme of one or two doses.
The remaining 43 percent, which are 17 million 511 thousand 158 people, represent new vaccination schemes.
In our country, 45 percent of the adult population has been vaccinated and the entities that report the greatest progress in immunization are Baja
California, Baja California Sur, Mexico City and Chihuahua, with more than two-thirds of the population.
============
There's more.....
[Edited on 7-24-2021 by SFandH]
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bajario
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Man I miss the trip reports, the stories and wit of Pompano, Osprey and Dennis amongst others.
I miss my family and myself unwinding in Baja.
We're vax'ed but we're going to wait it out.
It's not going anywhere.
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Bajaboy
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| Quote: Originally posted by bajario | Man I miss the trip reports, the stories and wit of Pompano, Osprey and Dennis amongst others.
I miss my family and myself unwinding in Baja.
We're vax'ed but we're going to wait it out.
It's not going anywhere.
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You can easily stay away from others here and still support the economy depending on how you travel. Sadly the dregs that argue here have no life.
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Alm
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| Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck |
The entities that will be in orange for the next two weeks are Baja California Sur, Mexico City, Colima, State of Mexico, Guerrero Hidalgo, Jalisco,
Nayarit, Nuevo León, Oaxaca, Quintana Roo, Tamaulipas and Veracruz, while Sinaloa is the only state that will be in red.
In our country, 45 percent of the adult population has been vaccinated and the entities that report the greatest progress in immunization are Baja
California, Baja California Sur, Mexico City and Chihuahua, with more than two-thirds of the population.
============
There's more.....
[Edited on 7-24-2021 by SFandH][/rquote]
Thanks for that very hopeful news. With vaccination rates so very high, why is the number of remaining cases also high? I suspect it may be related to
the initial vaccines being the less effective Synovax, and thankfully the newest appear to be almost all Pfizer or Moderna. Rapid decline in cases
should be right around the corner.
[Edited on 7-24-2021 by JDCanuck] |
45% of adults, not total population. The gobierno don't tell whether this is 45% fully or partially vaccinated. I think 45% partially. This source
reports 18% fully and 14% partially, i.e. 32% of TOTAL population vaccinated at least partially: https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2021/health/global-covid-vac...
As to the reasons for surge in cases, it's likely due to the variants. Phizer and Moderna are 88% effective against Delta after 2 doses. Only 18% of
population got 2 doses, this is nothing. After 1 dose it's half as effective. Astrazeneca (2 doses) and J-J (single-dose vaccine) are weaker yet
against Delta. Sinovac is Chinese, they bragging that it protects from Delta, never provided any data on this (why am I not surprised) but it was
only 65% effective against the original alpha variant, so must be weaker yet against Delta.
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pauldavidmena
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Location: Centerville, MA, USA
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| Quote: Originally posted by Bajaboy |
You can easily stay away from others here and still support the economy depending on how you travel. Sadly the dregs that argue here have no life.
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We usually visit Todos Santos every February but skipped this past year and are weighing our options for next year. We were able to support a local
artist by purchasing a fairly significant painting that is now hanging up in our living room, bringing a little bit of Baja to Cape Cod.
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pauldavidmena
Super Nomad
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Location: Centerville, MA, USA
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| Quote: Originally posted by bajario | Man I miss the trip reports, the stories and wit of Pompano, Osprey and Dennis amongst others.
I miss my family and myself unwinding in Baja.
We're vax'ed but we're going to wait it out.
It's not going anywhere.
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I got to know Osprey (George Bergin) fairly well during the last few years of his life. He was truly one of a kind.
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JZ
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| Quote: Originally posted by pauldavidmena |
We usually visit Todos Santos every February but skipped this past year and are weighing our options for next year. We were able to support a local
artist by purchasing a fairly significant painting that is now hanging up in our living room, bringing a little bit of Baja to Cape Cod.
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Nice painting. If you are vaccinated you really should go. If you want stay clear of ppl for extra safety. Life is short and tomorrow is not
promised.
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John Harper
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| Quote: Originally posted by JZ | | If you are vaccinated you really should go. If you want stay clear of ppl for extra safety. Life is short and tomorrow is not promised.
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Even vaccinated people are testing positive. Travel could be dangerous to others, especially your MAGA associates. Your choices can endanger others.
That's kind of what this whole thing is about, if you can recall.
Your purchase of gas, a few fish tacos, and measly 5% tipping will not save the Mexican, American, nor world economy. Eradicating covid will.
John
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Alm
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| Quote: Originally posted by SFandH | One set is about graphene in masks and vaccines. Graphene is a relatively new, exotic material made out of carbon, and the other set is about
breakthrough infections/illnesses.
It's not clear that graphene is something to worry about but breakthrough infections certainly are. |
Some Chinese companies have been known to use graphene. This and other warnings about masks are for people who wear it all day long. Retiree spending
time outdoors in unpopulated area, going indoors only for shopping or doctor's visit, can afford to (and should) use N95 mask. Buy 3M, they are high
standard, no graphene there. I usually air it on the shelf for a few days before putting it on. Get 3, rotate one each day for natural disinfecting -
the virus dies after 40-50 hours on the shelf. Don't carry it in your pocket when not in use, to avoid fibres breaking and bacteria growth - however,
I haven't come up with a good solution other than putting it in a small empty daypack.
About breakthrough cases. If you look at the numbers, there were 600 such cases in the Mass in a week (rise from 4,500 to 5,100). Their daily cases -
mostly among unvaccinated, of course - are 600 a day. Probably was 6,000 a day before they began the vaccination campaign. Possible reason -
variants. Also, some people don't use commons sense, they stop taking precautions right after the 1st shot - nope, it takes 2 weeks for antibodies to
develop. Some were probably infected when they came to get the shot - restrictions have been lifted, people are celebrating, so this is the price.
[Edited on 7-25-2021 by Alm]
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Lee
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| Quote: Originally posted by JZ | If you are vaccinated you really should go. If you want stay clear of ppl for extra safety. Life is short and tomorrow is not promised.
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Lets make sense. Paul says he usually goes South in February and is planning for next year. NEXT YEAR? And JZ jumps on it and sez ''you
really should go.'' Go next year?
Hey Paul. It's wishful thinking planning anything right now. You'll really be planning an 11th hour escape at the end of the year or longer.
And then there's the local attitude. Any bets on what the locals in Bocana or Asuncion will think if you show up next week? You guys are a
riot.
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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